Members Vinny D Posted June 12, 2012 Author Members Share Posted June 12, 2012 Any chance at all you have a bad mic cable? I know you said you changed things around but sometimes they are intermittent as well. Grab a cable tester and give them all a wiggle. Couldn't hurt.Dookietwo Changed cables, same results.If it was a bad cable I am sure the sub would not have passed signal through to the other cabinets.I have had this sub marked since the issue first happened and I have always made it the first speaker connected for my FOH, all the other PA cabs get there feed from this sub. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members OneEng Posted June 12, 2012 Members Share Posted June 12, 2012 As Abzurd pointed out, this thread had no where to go but the discussion of the relative pro's and con's of active vs passive. From a philosophical point of view it is much more likely that the design engineers at a speaker OEM will properly eq and protect an active cab than it is that most musicians would using external gear. For the comment that the SRX passive speakers would sound better than the PRX series .... you think? I would argue that the Meyer UPA-2P with the Meyer powered subs would sound better than the SRX speaker system The point being that it isn't a fair comparison. It is my understanding from the looks of things in the industry, that active systems are growing more popular. I can see a time when passive PA gear is as hard to come by as record players. .... and just to stir the pot a little further ..... analog mixers are likely in the same boat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jwlussow Posted June 12, 2012 Members Share Posted June 12, 2012 For the comment that the SRX passive speakers would sound better than the PRX series .... you think? I would argue that the Meyer UPA-2P with the Meyer powered subs would sound better than the SRX speaker system The point being that it isn't a fair comparison. Couldn't agree more. My thought is that generally speaking, the passive people here are more likely to be using JRX than SRX. There will always be bigger and better until you own the best system available. SRX is certainly better than PRX but SRX is also much easier to blow up by making a mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members abzurd Posted June 12, 2012 Members Share Posted June 12, 2012 Couldn't agree more. My thought is that generally speaking, the passive people here are more likely to be using JRX than SRX. There will always be bigger and better until you own the best system available. SRX is certainly better than PRX but SRX is also much easier to blow up by making a mistake. And I'd add the SRX is easier to make "sound bad" than the PRX. More variables mean more things to screw up. Not limited to pa systems, if you have the money you can buy enough gold rope to hang yourself with. I like screwing around with PA gear as much as anyone and have had both passive and active systems, but at the end of the day we are 5 guys in a minivan with a 5x8 trailer and no sound guy. Several years ago now we stopped contracting production and simultaneously transitioned to better gigs where my time has to be focused on other aspects of the business during the week and on gig day. I do everything for this band. I buy the clothes we wear, negotiate the contracts, do the website, set lists, itineraries, it goes on and on. The sound system has become just a tool that allows us to do what we do. We do the production ourselves, but still I can't get bogged down on gig day because I'm the face of the group to the venue, various planners, client, and audience. So for me it's all about convenience. We drive all over the state and beyond for our gigs and have all kinds of nasty load ins (and we aren't the youngest or most in shape bunch you'll meet). We need to conserve space, trips in and out, and maintain the fastest, easiest setup possible that has the least amount of audio connections. That allows the guitar player to help me set up the PA. Other than the volume on the speaker there are no knobs to bump, no amps to hook up. It's just mic cables and power cords. Every band member hooks up their own monitors and I don't have to worry about where or what they are plugging into. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Audiopyle Sound Posted June 12, 2012 Members Share Posted June 12, 2012 You definitely should check the connections to the driver. I've seen the spade connectors break off of the speaker frames before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mutha Goose Posted June 12, 2012 Members Share Posted June 12, 2012 I'm I'm afraid you'll just have to take my word on that one as it is a proprietary secret. But I only have that sample of one company. But I would assume that it would be similar across industry standards. Again, we are in agreement. I was answering ChiroVette's repeated request for documented proof stating that he won't find it online. I was not questioning your word. I have a LOT of experience in this area, and my experience is in line with your assessment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members abzurd Posted June 12, 2012 Members Share Posted June 12, 2012 There is documented proof online - I posted it earlier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vinny D Posted June 12, 2012 Author Members Share Posted June 12, 2012 You definitely should check the connections to the driver. I've seen the spade connectors break off of the speaker frames before. I am going to take a look at them, just need another free night to pull the driver out and take a look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators MarkGifford-1 Posted June 12, 2012 Moderators Share Posted June 12, 2012 My active gear consists of: 2 Yamaha powered cabs I've had for 10 years. In that time I had one horn diaphragm that needed to be replaced (not sure the cause) and one loud hum caused by a loose connection that needed to be fixed. A pair of JBL PRX 512/518S that have worked flawlessly for 5 years with the exception of an annoying 'buzz' in one of the 512s that needed to be fixed. The question would be how long did it take you to get them fixed, and what did you use in the meantime? A failure at a gig can be a PITA that night, passive or active, but w/passive you can usually reconfigure and be working again the next night. Don't a lot of these active boxes require factory service, or have to be shipped somewhere to get fixed? With the nosedive in customer service, even from the major players, that gets noted regularly around here, it would definitely play into my decision. MG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members abzurd Posted June 12, 2012 Members Share Posted June 12, 2012 The question would be how long did it take you to get them fixed, and what did you use in the meantime?A failure at a gig can be a PITA that night, passive or active, but w/passive you can usually reconfigure and be working again the next night.Don't a lot of these active boxes require factory service, or have to be shipped somewhere to get fixed?With the nosedive in customer service, even from the major players, that gets noted regularly around here, it would definitely play into my decision.MG Long wait times for service is a definite possibility, but don't you have to do the same for passive setups? Can you fix your own amp or recone your own speaker or make your own diaphragm? Unless you're simply talking about bridging an amp, which would only work for FOH sound if you need discrete monitor mixes, then there's really no difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted June 12, 2012 Members Share Posted June 12, 2012 The question would be how long did it take you to get them fixed, and what did you use in the meantime? In the cases of the hums and buzzes, the cabs were still operational, so it was a matter of waiting until we had a long enough break in the schedule to drop them off at the service shop and get them repaired. They were all out-of-warranty at the time, so factory service wasn't an issue. A failure at a gig can be a PITA that night, passive or active, but w/passive you can usually reconfigure and be working again the next night. Passive or active, you're not going to be able to reconfigure without having some sort of backup amp and/or speaker cab. In our case, we carry an extra powered cabinet. Should we have a failure, we would just put up the spare. And, at this point, we've got several spares in the garage. Redundancy builds up over time, which was a point I was making earlier. I think a lot of the people who talk about how much easier it is to 'reconfigure' passive systems are doing so because they know they've got extra amps and speakers lying around from the last band they played with or the last system they used. The longer actives are in use, the more 'redundancy' becomes less of an issue as more people will have a couple of old powered Eons lying around in the shed somewhere.... What we don't have is a spare sub. But should we lose one, we could almost certainly limp through the gig using just the other. Yeah, service can be a PITA, but again...it's the same PITA whether you're getting your active cab serviced or whether you're getting your passive amp/speaker serviced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members StratGuy22 Posted June 12, 2012 Members Share Posted June 12, 2012 I've used passive since 2003, active subs since then. Had an amp fail once, a 6 month old IPR3000. It was just acting weird, not passing much signal. Between sets I turned it off, and it wouldn't come on fully after that. The power lights would come on and that's it. No problem, switched out to the spare IPR3000 I have there and we were good to go for the rest of the night. Blew my tops once, at the end of a gig (ended up not having enough rig for the gig). Simply pushed them too hard. Also lost a horn driver from a monitor (different gig, probably wear and tear, since there really wasn't anything out of the ordinary). That was just one of those things. Still. Not bad for almost 10 years of service. I'm sticking with passive, because it's all paid for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vinny D Posted June 12, 2012 Author Members Share Posted June 12, 2012 Okay, if everyone can stop the active/passive debate (and I don't need 4-more pages telling me what was I to expect with the title I posted ) and offer up some other things to possibly check on this speaker it would be appreciated...because I am out of ideas. I pulled the speaker out, checked all the connections and they are all fine...no visible breaks or weak spots. all the connection points seem very tight and snug. I also had the cab powered up and gave it my own shaker test and I can't get this cabinet to cut out no matter what I try . I have ruled out bad cables as there would be no way the rest of the PA would have continued to work...seeing as this was the first cab to receive a signal in the chain. I don't believe it is bad leeds connecting the actual speaker or the leeds to the driver cone as they all are solid and no movement of them stopped signal.. As a re-cap...the speaker shut down at various times...when first turned on, and mid set. I am also dismissing a possible loose AC connection as the socket fits very snug and even in my own shaker test that I just performed, I couldn't get it to fall out or come loose. Any other suggestions are welcome, here are some pic's for viewing pleasure: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ChiroVette Posted June 12, 2012 Members Share Posted June 12, 2012 Okay, if everyone can stop the active/passive debate (and I don't need 4-more pages telling me what was I to expect with the title I posted ) and offer up some other things to possibly check on this speaker it would be appreciated No worries. We can and will DO BOTH debate the issue and the people who know gear will help you out, too. We're all about multi-tasking here at Harmony Central. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members abzurd Posted June 12, 2012 Members Share Posted June 12, 2012 Sounds like someone should have titled the thread "Help me fix my active speaker" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ChiroVette Posted June 12, 2012 Members Share Posted June 12, 2012 Sounds like someone should have titled the thread "Help me fix my active speaker" Hahahaha Awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members soul-x Posted June 12, 2012 Members Share Posted June 12, 2012 The Italians make some really beautiful drivers. But that's all we can see in your pictures. Seriously... without manufacturer documentation, even if I was sitting on top of your system with a pile of good tools, I wouldn't want to deal with it. If you don't see anything obvious to your eyes, this thing needs to go to somebody with the proper knowledge, experience, and literature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jlb Posted June 12, 2012 Members Share Posted June 12, 2012 Vinny, Sell that thing and pick up a couple SRX cabinets while you still can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members abzurd Posted June 12, 2012 Members Share Posted June 12, 2012 Vinny, Sell that thing and pick up a couple SRX cabinets while you still can. So is this where we now have 100 posts on "caveat emptor" with regard to buying used gear? :poke: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jwlussow Posted June 12, 2012 Members Share Posted June 12, 2012 Vinny D, did you try the old nose test on the circuit boards? If one of those failed it is very possible to notice a little burnt smell. Certainly not scientific but it might point to a possible issue. I've found a few bad boards using this method, which works great if you can't physically see the whole board to inspect it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vinny D Posted June 12, 2012 Author Members Share Posted June 12, 2012 Vinny, Sell that thing and pick up a couple SRX cabinets while you still can. I have the TX9's no need for anything else.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vinny D Posted June 12, 2012 Author Members Share Posted June 12, 2012 The Italians make some really beautiful drivers. But that's all we can see in your pictures.Seriously... without manufacturer documentation, even if I was sitting on top of your system with a pile of good tools, I wouldn't want to deal with it. If you don't see anything obvious to your eyes, this thing needs to go to somebody with the proper knowledge, experience, and literature. It most likely will end up at a service center sooner or later....then they can tell me that they can't find anything wrong with it...then I am back to having a new boat anchor.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vinny D Posted June 12, 2012 Author Members Share Posted June 12, 2012 Vinny D, did you try the old nose test on the circuit boards? If one of those failed it is very possible to notice a little burnt smell. Certainly not scientific but it might point to a possible issue. I've found a few bad boards using this method, which works great if you can't physically see the whole board to inspect it. No burnt smell...no nothing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bobby1Note Posted June 12, 2012 Members Share Posted June 12, 2012 No burnt smell...no nothing... Any chance it was thermalling from time to time? How much time elapsed between shut-down and reactivate? Did you check the fuse/fuse-socket? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jlb Posted June 12, 2012 Members Share Posted June 12, 2012 I have the TX9's no need for anything else.. I was thinking more along the line of 712/715's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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