Members wankdeplank Posted February 11, 2015 Members Share Posted February 11, 2015 Man it's just so easy to get caught up in this stuff. Not so much over here, but the Gear Page has got numerous multi-page threads dedicated to opinions on the best PAF faithful reproduction humbuckers. Then there's Youtube that's full of demonstrations and hype and might I add "advertising". I wasted a whole evening listening to these demos and trying to pick a winner and before you know it I'm scouring Ebay looking for deals on boutique PAFs.... and I'm mostly a Strat guy anyway. Thank God I had the good sense to play through my humbucker guitars first (played through my Fender Pro Jr). I have three with SD 59s in the neck slot (2000 Gibson Studio, 98 Hamer Mirage II, 93 Hamer Special) and amazingly, they all sound fabulous and PAFish, AND they all sound different in each guitar - the Gibson sounds woody and fat, the Mirage II sounds thinner and Stratish (wilki trem), and the All Mahogany Special sounds woodier and darker. Two sport JBs in the bridge (Gibson and Hamer Mirage II), and to heck with the naysayers I think it's a great pickup for those classic rock n roll tonez. And surprisingly I never see it referred to as a PAF style pickup. My other humbucker guitar (Carlo Robelli 335 copy) has no-name stockers in it that also sound PAFish (very, very bluesy). I guess I got all the PAF I need after all. Thank goodness cause this was going to set me back a couple of Benjamins, cost me a couple of man-hours to install, and maybe even lead to more headaches - no guarantees, and the ones I was looking at are not even wax potted (could be squeal city, WTF@$%^). So how's your PAF Obsession going? [video=youtube;DgJvTT14n9c] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RDThSJoqdE&list=PLm_AcxyPiHO1e-KakEs1ZSTokFctQVxVJ&index=2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 1001gear Posted February 11, 2015 Members Share Posted February 11, 2015 They all sounded the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wankdeplank Posted February 11, 2015 Author Members Share Posted February 11, 2015 ^True dat, especially in the montage video. But when you start watching the complete videos of each, you start convincing yourself that one sounds just a bit better than the other and that that difference must be the stuff of the elusive PAF mojo and must be exquisite in every way. I don't know but I was going to buy used and save literally hundreds of dollars off the original $400 price tag. It was going to be feel good stuff all the way baby, I mean until I got my credit card statement long after I'd moved on to another sure thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Ratae Corieltauvorum Posted February 11, 2015 Moderators Share Posted February 11, 2015 I gave up on that. If I want PAF, I install either Seth Lovers, or if I'm good with the world, Seymour Duncan Antiquitys. I don't buy all the other ****************, especially the Throbak extortion. I'm sure they're beautiful, but at best, there's a small chance they may sound as good or slightly different that Seth Lovers, but leave me a whole lot poorer. If I want a balls out PAF with attitude I buy Wolfe Tone Marshall Heads, and in fairness his Dr Vintage pickups are just about the same as SD Antiquitys. Seymour Duncan 59s with Alnico II, III, IV or UO5 magnets sound as good as any boutique pickups. Life's too short to {censored} about with anything else apart from swapping magnets on the usually disliked Gibson 490R and 498T sets, ie take the magnet from the 490, put it into the 498, take the magnet from the 498 and put it into the 490. BIN{censored}ingGO!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Nostalgia4Infinity Posted February 11, 2015 Members Share Posted February 11, 2015 Pretty happy with the Parson Streets in my Cort Source (335 copy). Trying flatwounds for first time ever - not sure yet about that...I played it live a couple weeks ago (before restrung) and wow - I loved it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Ratae Corieltauvorum Posted February 11, 2015 Moderators Share Posted February 11, 2015 Pretty happy with the Parson Streets in my Cort Source (335 copy). Trying flatwounds for first time ever - not sure yet about that...I played it live a couple weeks ago (before restrung) and wow - I loved it! Yup, fitted a few sets of those when they were a decent price, everybody I fitted them for is still very happy with them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members billybilly Posted February 11, 2015 Members Share Posted February 11, 2015 I love PAF's. The ones I have tried and liked are Seth Lovers, Dimarzio 36 Anniversary's, BG Buckers and Burstbucker Pros. It's subjective and personally, I find the 59 too boomy and scooped but each to their own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WRGKMC Posted February 11, 2015 Members Share Posted February 11, 2015 I been using Vintage Mighty Might 1300s in two of my guitars, the same ones Van Halen used for awhile. The vintage ones are really hard to find. I also have a 1400 which is much hotter in one other guitars. I have about 3 dozen other PAF' type pickups in storage. I've pulled them out of guitars for a number of reasons. Many are just wound too hot and sound like mud. The more winds the more high frequency loss. Maybe its my ears that are getting old but I prefer a vintage wind which has a fuller frequency response at least up to 6K. Any of the HB's I own that are wound above 9K ohms start to having a serious frequency roll off above 5K or even lower so I don't use them any more. I mostly record now and need that extra snap from the strings to get the tracks to mix well. I can EQ a bright pickup to sound muddy but I cant make a muddy pickup sound bright because those frequencies just aren't being produced I stick with vintage winds in most cases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 1001gear Posted February 11, 2015 Members Share Posted February 11, 2015 The individual demos seemed to depend on the skill of the player; picking touch, fingering etc and what he was playing through The GP demos sound good. This one caught my ear. [video=youtube;AmXX0rU3V7w] And then there's this Bogner guy on a Tele. [video=youtube;C3BvWAaBqZ4] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gardo Posted February 11, 2015 Members Share Posted February 11, 2015 I love PAF's. The ones I have tried and liked are Seth Lovers, Dimarzio 36 Anniversary's, BG Buckers and Burstbucker Pros. It's subjective and personally, I find the 59 too boomy and scooped but each to their own. This may be opeening a new can of worms,but carefully tweaking the pole pieces to suit the fretboard radius as well as your own taste can make a big difference in a pickup. Not all necks are the same so a pickup may be well suited to a 12" radius and sound scooped with a 7.5" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members billybilly Posted February 11, 2015 Members Share Posted February 11, 2015 It should sound scooped on a lower radius, but ya, adjusting pole pieces can help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wankdeplank Posted February 11, 2015 Author Members Share Posted February 11, 2015 Yeah, not just the fretboard radius but for me at least, it's the type and quality of the body wood. You'd probably be amazed at how different the 59 sounds in each of my three guitars - one a slightly chambered traditional LP, another more PRS, no chamber with a trem and the other just Brazilian Mahogany. There's vids on Youtube of guys putting boutique pickups in your average garden variety Epiphone LP and I'm like that thing still sounds muddy and lifeless. As far as boomy, I don't hear that at all. I do admit to liking some nice palpable bottom end with all my guitars though. I mean I already went through this with single coils in my Strat. Somebody convinced me that Lace Sensors were the holy grail of Strat pickups. I put em in and it's like what happened to my bottom end? Just too polite for my personal tastes. I replaced those in dang hurry - probably have to give em away. I'm probably more of a tone-path (nut and hardware, bridge, tuners etc.), tonewood kind of guy than most. I see people spending a fortune trading pickups back and forth when a decent nut, tail piece or trem block would have made a more constructive difference in tone. I deplore cheap plastic nuts and have replaced them in all of my electrics - save for my Gibson, but it sounds good, sustains well (I think it's of higher quality). I even went so far as to replace the "lubritrak" nuts in my US Hamers cause for me, those things are real tone sponges. Those guitars are about as close to vintage spec Gibsons as you're going to find and yet with the original nut I couldn't hear it in the tone. I sure do now though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wankdeplank Posted February 11, 2015 Author Members Share Posted February 11, 2015 I gave up on that. If I want PAF, I install either Seth Lovers, or if I'm good with the world, Seymour Duncan Antiquitys. I don't buy all the other ****************, especially the Throbak extortion. I'm sure they're beautiful, but at best, there's a small chance they may sound as good or slightly different that Seth Lovers, but leave me a whole lot poorer. If I want a balls out PAF with attitude I buy Wolfe Tone Marshall Heads, and in fairness his Dr Vintage pickups are just about the same as SD Antiquitys. Seymour Duncan 59s with Alnico II, III, IV or UO5 magnets sound as good as any boutique pickups. Life's too short to **************** about with anything else apart from swapping magnets on the usually disliked Gibson 490R and 498T sets, ie take the magnet from the 490, put it into the 498, take the magnet from the 498 and put it into the 490. BIN****************ingGO!!! Those Seth Lovers and Antiquitys ain't cheap either though. Maybe someday I'll give em a whirl (different guitar) - I've liked the tone in clips and videos I've heard. Interesting idea with the Gibson 490R/498T pickups. I've been telling everybody that the pickups I pulled from my Lester were ceramics because that was the standard pickup used in the Studio Lite line but I'm beginning to suspect they were the 490R/498T - no identifying labels on the backs only "Gibson USA". I bought my Gibby second hand in a local vintage guitar store (Cowtown) and it's a bit of a rare bird. From the serial number it appears to have been made in 2000 (last year of production for the lite series was 96 I believe). It has covered buckers as compared with the open faced ones on the Lite series, and Grover tuners as compared with the Gotoh ones found on the average Lite. My guitar is actually most similar to the Custom Lite with it's gold hardware, covered buckers and Grover tuners which sport 490R/498T pickups: http://www.zzounds.com/item--GIBLPCT...FcRffgod3aIAig So thanks for the suggestion Ratae, might have to pop these suckers open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WRGKMC Posted February 11, 2015 Members Share Posted February 11, 2015 I only adjust poles on certain pickups. P90's/100's can benefit from following the radius. Other pickups don't seem to make much difference at all. I ballpark the pup heights measuring them, but I usually finish up under normal playing conditions. I do allot of palm muting and arpeggio stuff. Getting the notes even in volume may be a matter of tweaking the pickup height on one side in very small increments till I get certain note combinations to match in loudness. I may have the third string standing out too much. I'll first check and see if there's something set in my effects that's making that string stand out too much. If the gear is set for frequency neutral, no bumps in and EQ setting, I'll see if I can tweak it even with the other strings using the pickup settings. Its also got to be an issue involving all keys being played. Sometimes you'll get one not to stand out on the fretboard and it just happens to be an issue with that one particular chord. I'd be less likely to mess with it for just that one situation if it sounds good on everything else. I'll usually just focus on my playing technique to mask it when I get to that note vs trying to fix the one note and making all others sound bad. Guitars tend to have peak resonations all over the place and many times they don't involve the electronics. strings wear, start sounding dead and tweaking the pickups to compensate isn't the best thing to do. You'd be better off changing the strings and get back the tone. I notice the tone changes over the lifespan of the strings and I avoid compensating for that and would rather have a setting that accommodates the strings at an acceptable level throughout their lifespan. This can be tough especially when strings are new with allot of bite and stretching going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wankdeplank Posted February 11, 2015 Author Members Share Posted February 11, 2015 Yeah I'm with you on that one. The P90s only because they are not adjustable otherwise. I am tempted to try it on buckers though after reading that Jimmy Page would lower his buckers all the way and then bring the screws up to his preference. Might be something to it, but I doubt I'll actually try it because A) I have better things to do, and B) I'm really quite happy with the tone I'm getting presently using the traditional pickup height screw method. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wankdeplank Posted February 11, 2015 Author Members Share Posted February 11, 2015 Interesting. I had to google those pickups. Found a cool video by "Geezer Guitar" and installing those pickups really made a huge difference in the sound of his guitar. So many cool pickups and so little time. As far as the flatwounds, I'd say go for it. I put some D'Addario Chromes on my 335 copy (Carlo Robelli) and I really couldn't be happier with it. The only thing is I need to take off the wound G string and replace it with a regular one because it won't bend for {censored}. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gardo Posted February 12, 2015 Members Share Posted February 12, 2015 Seymour Duncan ran an article on fine tuning humbuckers a while back. If you do choose to adjust go slow and document everything.http://www.seymourduncan.com/blog/the-tone-garage/fine-tuning-the-adjustment-of-passive-humbuckers/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wankdeplank Posted February 12, 2015 Author Members Share Posted February 12, 2015 Interesting article concerning procedure. Truth is I've never messed with humbucker screw settings because I've never had an issue with string to string balance. I mean that's what I check out acoustically when I purchase a guitar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WRGKMC Posted February 12, 2015 Members Share Posted February 12, 2015 You may want to try this some time. Plug the guitar into a piece of audio gear like a recorder or a mixer. Something that has a VU meter, then adjust the pickups so the strings have fairly equal output. You can even use a Volt ohm meter connected to your guitar cord set for low AC volts. This wont be completely accurate because the thicker strings will have more output which is normal. Guitar amps aren't high fidelity and they have their frequency response contoured to a pickups output. This can be a visual aid to identifying the strings between the high and low E that have either stronger or weaker outputs so you can even them up a little. Just be sure to try it in several positions on the neck. The higher up the neck you go, the closer the strings are to the pickups. What you get for open strings may be very different for the higher frets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wankdeplank Posted February 12, 2015 Author Members Share Posted February 12, 2015 Just out of curiosity I'll have to give that a whirl. Normally when I've had an issue with string to string balance it's the high strings and due to the fact that I'm running my action too low on that side. A quick bridge adjustment does the trick in that case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wankdeplank Posted February 12, 2015 Author Members Share Posted February 12, 2015 I been using Vintage Mighty Might 1300s in two of my guitars, the same ones Van Halen used for awhile. The vintage ones are really hard to find. I also have a 1400 which is much hotter in one other guitars. I have about 3 dozen other PAF' type pickups in storage. I've pulled them out of guitars for a number of reasons. Many are just wound too hot and sound like mud. The more winds the more high frequency loss. Maybe its my ears that are getting old but I prefer a vintage wind which has a fuller frequency response at least up to 6K. Any of the HB's I own that are wound above 9K ohms start to having a serious frequency roll off above 5K or even lower so I don't use them any more. I mostly record now and need that extra snap from the strings to get the tracks to mix well. I can EQ a bright pickup to sound muddy but I cant make a muddy pickup sound bright because those frequencies just aren't being produced I stick with vintage winds in most cases. You got me curious about those Mighty Mite pickups. I googled it and see it's more of a distortion pickup with distinctive characteristics. So would that be considered a PAF? What kind of clean tones can you get? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarcapo Posted February 12, 2015 Members Share Posted February 12, 2015 It's sort of a moving target designing a "PAF" because they weren't really made to exact standards. They were wound by hand in factories and the people winding them just waited until the spool was full. No winding counting. they scattered the winding in different patterns. Also the wire would stretch depending on how it was held. Which changes the wire thickness as it's stretched and that changes the conductivity of the wire, impedance and induction in unpredictable ways. That all being said, my favorite PAF style humbuckers are not wax potted and have assymetric windings like the Seymour Duncan Seth Lover. I also have a set of Lindy Fralin Unbuckers in a huge jazz archtop that I like a lot. It's a Epiphone Elite Broadway to be exact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BeanoBoy Posted February 13, 2015 Members Share Posted February 13, 2015 I have set of WCR Darkburst- Crossroads in my PRS SE Custom and a Crossroads set in my '06 Les Paul STD. Hands down, they have that PAF Brit Blues mojo I've loved for many years. I have a set of Wolfetone Dr. Vintage in my '91 PRS Artist, they're great, really sweet and almost piano -like but don't have the elusive mojo like my WCR pups. I've had Seymour Duncans, Dimarzios, Gibson Burstbuckers and even tried the "best bang for the buck" options I've read about here. None of them make me smile like my WCRs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Nostalgia4Infinity Posted February 13, 2015 Members Share Posted February 13, 2015 I hear ya on that G-string! wow! Plus going from 10s to 11s. Getting used to it though. This weekend I'm gonna work more seriously with the amplified tone. I'll check out that video Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wankdeplank Posted February 13, 2015 Author Members Share Posted February 13, 2015 Great analogy. I've never actually had the opportunity to play a PAF humbucker before so I don't really even know what the benchmark or the fascination is. (I did play a 65 Strat (15,000 pricetag in 2004) once in a vintage shop and I was surprised at how fat and un-Stratty it sounded - more like an LP). Don't those non-wax potted pickups squeal when overdriven? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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