Members RoadRanger Posted October 5, 2012 Members Share Posted October 5, 2012 Don't forget to HPF them around 50Hz, 24dB/octave BW and respect the substantial real world power limitations.Yup, mostly for kick "punch" and I know enough not to push power into them down low. "Don't try this at home" for sure . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted October 5, 2012 Members Share Posted October 5, 2012 Yup, mostly for kick "punch" and I know enough not to push power into them down low. "Don't try this at home" for sure . But you didn't express this in your response, leaving folks to think that it's a good idea (which IMO it is not). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bobby1Note Posted October 5, 2012 Members Share Posted October 5, 2012 Yup, mostly for kick "punch" and I know enough not to push power into them down low. "Don't try this at home" for sure . I've got a Mesa-Boogie B-400 tube amp, sitting on a Twin 15" Mesa-Boogie "Road" cab,,,parked right next to the drum throne. Drum-monitor ????I'm kiiiiiiiiiidding. :poke: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted October 5, 2012 Members Share Posted October 5, 2012 But you didn't express this in your response, leaving folks to think that it's a good idea (which IMO it is not).We could go off and talk about "what is a subwoofer" and whether a cab that only goes down to 50Hz is one or not . Terminology based upon the sound of a barking dog is a bit silly at best, no? I guess a subwoofer would reproduce sounds lower than the biggest, meanest rabbid dog . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Pro Sound Guy Posted October 5, 2012 Members Share Posted October 5, 2012 Yup, mostly for kick "punch" and I know enough not to push power into them down low. "Don't try this at home" for sure . Is it an acoustic act? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted October 5, 2012 Members Share Posted October 5, 2012 A pair of 12's have almost as much cone area as an 18. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted October 5, 2012 Members Share Posted October 5, 2012 We could go off and talk about "what is a subwoofer" and whether a cab that only goes down to 50Hz is one or not . Terminology based upon the sound of a barking dog is a bit silly at best, no? I guess a subwoofer would reproduce sounds lower than the biggest, meanest rabbid dog . I don't know of anybody who would consider that cabinet a subwoofer, since it was intended from the very application to be used well abover any typical subwoofer frequency range. In fact, for that cabinet, my guess is that the -3dB point is ~65Hz and the power handling at 65Hz will be mechanically limited to about 250 watts. Why "encourage" folks do damage an otherwise good bass guitar cabinet? I really don't understand where you are coming from with some of your comments here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Pro Sound Guy Posted October 5, 2012 Members Share Posted October 5, 2012 A pair of 12's have almost as much cone area as an 18.You are absolutely right. With the right driver and cabinet designthey make great subs. However, basically a full range loudspeaker designed for bass guitar is really not a sub design. They will work ok for midbass for you.Because they are not in a bandpass, or horn loaded they might not achieve the output you want though. Have fun with them anyways...post how they worked for you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted October 5, 2012 Members Share Posted October 5, 2012 -3db point is in the low 50's unless you think GK is lying? And yes, like most any other bass or subwoofer cab it can probably only take about 1/2 rms at the lower end before overexcursion. And I don't get where I'm "encouraging" anybody to do anything ? If anything I'm discouraging folks from boosting frequencies below the kick's fundamental and other low frequencies below their "subwoofer"s -3db point. All of my "subwoofers" have -3db points in the high 40's and low 50's and I'm just saying it is quite possible to get a good solid kick out of them and acceptable bass without abusing them. If I ever blow one up I'll be sure to let you know . Oh, and I just bought the second 212BME for this "experiment" and leaving at a rehearsal place. They are discontinued and I got it cheap . The one I had is plenty stoopid loud for anywhere I can contemplate ever playing - no prob with 115db stages . Not that it tells anyone anything but these are the drivers: http://secure.netsolhost.com/272252.276452/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=GS&Product_Code=082-0360-A&Category_Code=S8 I got each cab for less that the price of two of those drivers . It's hard to get good deals on Neo . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted October 5, 2012 Members Share Posted October 5, 2012 You are absolutely right. With the right driver and cabinet design they make great subs. However, basically a full range loudspeaker designed for bass guitar is really not a sub design. They will work ok for midbass for you. Because they are not in a bandpass, or horn loaded they might not achieve the output you want though. Have fun with them anyways...post how they worked for you! On my last gig I used a pair of Peavey PRSubs - I expect these to have a bit more "oomph", maybe as much as 6db . They are actually a bit smaller and "pack friendly" too . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted October 5, 2012 Members Share Posted October 5, 2012 My fault here, I thought you were talking about the 210 not the 212. Maybe the mid 50's. There is quite a bit of difference between a sub and this IMO, say the PRX-618XLF which has a -3dB point in the upper 30's. At 50Hz, I would expect the mechanical power handling to be around 300 watts unless you are ok with the drivers lasting a couple hundred hours (I'm not ok with that). That's quite a noticeable difference, plus the XLF driver is designed specifically for the lower frequencies as there is no need tp preserve the mids essential to bass guitar. It's going to be better suited mechanically up to ~600 watts or much closer to the RMS rating of the driver because of this. I would NOT recommend those cabinet for use as subwoofers for most applications that folks here usually ask about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted October 5, 2012 Members Share Posted October 5, 2012 Originally Posted by agedhorse I would NOT recommend those cabinet for use as subwoofers for most applications that folks here usually ask about. Absolutely! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bigfatskinny Posted November 19, 2012 Author Members Share Posted November 19, 2012 Would these work http://www.electrovoice.com/product.php?id=1068 Sorry to bring an old tread back up but I'm slow at getting these things started.......funding issues Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bobby1Note Posted November 19, 2012 Members Share Posted November 19, 2012 Originally Posted by bigfatskinny Would these work http://www.electrovoice.com/product.php?id=1068 Sorry to bring an old tread back up but I'm slow at getting these things started.......funding issues Where are you located? This may help us in recommending what brands you should check out, and where you should go for an audition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bigfatskinny Posted November 19, 2012 Author Members Share Posted November 19, 2012 Originally Posted by Bobby1Note Where are you located? This may help us in recommending what brands you should check out, and where you should go for an audition. Maryland...........audition? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bobby1Note Posted November 19, 2012 Members Share Posted November 19, 2012 Originally Posted by bigfatskinny Maryland...........audition? audition,,,, as in,,,",listening in person", rather than reading about them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members twostone Posted November 20, 2012 Members Share Posted November 20, 2012 Originally Posted by bigfatskinny Would these work http://www.electrovoice.com/product.php?id=1068 Sorry to bring an old tread back up but I'm slow at getting these things started.......funding issues Pretty weak unless coupled in pairs. IMO the JBL 618XLF probably best MI grade under 100lbs being they weigh in only at 86lbs they have the triple L rating of low,loud, lightweight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bigfatskinny Posted November 20, 2012 Author Members Share Posted November 20, 2012 Originally Posted by twostone Pretty weak unless coupled in pairs. IMO the JBL 618XLF probably best MI grade under 100lbs being they weigh in only at 86lbs they have the triple L rating of low,loud, lightweight. Thanks....that said they are about $500 more.....can you please explain why they are the better choice? http://www.zzounds.com/item--JBLPRX618SXLF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lifeloverwg Posted November 20, 2012 Members Share Posted November 20, 2012 Originally Posted by bigfatskinny Thanks....that said they are about $500 more.....can you please explain why they are the better choice? http://www.zzounds.com/item--JBLPRX618SXLF He pretty much did with the "low, loud and lightweight" comment. There really just isn't any sub on the market that's better at that criteria and there really aren't even any better ones available at all unless you spend even more $$$. Of course, if you don't have the extra $500, then you don't have it.... I think most of us would reccomend you save up until you do rather than expect the mythical "inexpensive high quality sub" to manifest itself in the lesser products you keep suggesting. Buy once, cry once is still good advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members OneEng Posted November 20, 2012 Members Share Posted November 20, 2012 From here: http://www.rmcaudiodirect.com/Holida...ters-s/346.htmYou can pick one up for ~$1040.00 with free shipping.If you have the $$ this is a really good deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members OneEng Posted November 20, 2012 Members Share Posted November 20, 2012 Originally Posted by bigfatskinny Thanks....that said they are about $500 more.....can you please explain why they are the better choice? http://www.zzounds.com/item--JBLPRX618SXLF They weigh 81lbs which is really light for an 18" sub. They are using the same driver as the high end SRX718 subs. They are tuned really well to really punch low and loud. For those of us that have auditioned many subs in this general price category, these really shine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Marko Posted November 20, 2012 Members Share Posted November 20, 2012 Originally Posted by RoadRanger GK 212MBE http://www.fullcompass.com/common/fi...-mbeseries.pdf I have the very cab, and after a few gigs against a very-loud guitard, it started rattling/vibrating to beat hell. Turned out the little cross brace that goes from the baffle board between the speakers to the back (just glued in, as it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted November 21, 2012 Members Share Posted November 21, 2012 Originally Posted by Marko Just letting you know you might want to take that sucker apart and brace it up a bit before stressing it with kick. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WynnD Posted November 21, 2012 Members Share Posted November 21, 2012 Originally Posted by djiceman1575 Depends on what sub and what type of music you're going to be playing. Might depend more upon how strong you want the subs kicking the audience in the chest. (A sensation that I hate.) Also, wattage alone doesn't tell how loud it is. And Behringer equipment seems to be working in another world as far as their idea of what a watt is. (And I'm sure they're not alone in being overly optimistic of wattage figures.) It would be enough for me, but others will tell you that I think subs are usually too loud. (And they would be right.) I have noticed that there are huge differences in the character of subs. I like a tight kick and being I'm playing some percussion on my keyboard, the subs have become more important to me. (We rarely used subs in the past year, but have added them to all our shows in the last 3 months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members OneEng Posted November 21, 2012 Members Share Posted November 21, 2012 Originally Posted by WynnD Might depend more upon how strong you want the subs kicking the audience in the chest. (A sensation that I hate.) Also, wattage alone doesn't tell how loud it is. And Behringer equipment seems to be working in another world as far as their idea of what a watt is. (And I'm sure they're not alone in being overly optimistic of wattage figures.) It would be enough for me, but others will tell you that I think subs are usually too loud. (And they would be right.) I have noticed that there are huge differences in the character of subs. I like a tight kick and being I'm playing some percussion on my keyboard, the subs have become more important to me. (We rarely used subs in the past year, but have added them to all our shows in the last 3 months. Whoa. This just goes to show you how different.t opinions can be! I love a great punchey kick in the cbest. It calls to the ladies and fills the Dance floor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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