Members Freeman Keller Posted September 21, 2014 Members Share Posted September 21, 2014 In another thread I commented that whenever I work on a guitar I always write down the setup values before I start and again after I finish. Several people were surprised, but I find that only by knowing where I start and my goal can I move forward in a systematic manner. To make this easy, I created a little spreadsheet with cells for each of the things that I look for while doing a setup on a guitar. It also has a column with my target values and another column listing where I got those targets. These include neck relief, action height at the nut, 12th fret and bridge, intonation information, players choice of strings and some general information about the instrument. Target setup specifications vary with different technicians - I have a tab on the spread sheet that lists several different sources and what they suggest for relief, nut clearances, action heights and other parameters. That way I can easily remember the values that I will use and when I discuss the work with a customer, I can say "these are the Fender (or whatever) factory specifications for your guitar...." I have parameters for steel and nylon string acoustics, electric guitars, basses, mandolins and a few other instruments and I've documented where they come from. I usually fill out a paper copy of this in the shop and transfer the information to the actual spreadsheet on my computer. The music store that I work for uses a work order numbering system - I save the spreadsheet by WO number unless it is a personal guitar or a friends guitar, in which case I use some sort of obvious naming scheme "Joes Telecaster.xlsx". I give a copy of this to the customer with the invoice - that way they have a record of what was done - and keep one for my business records. I don't like to set up a guitar just by numbers - these are simply a starting point. Individual playing technique as well as the condition of the instrument can affect the way I will adjust it. I'm always interested in how other technicians set an instrument but I don't want to get in a big argument about these numbers - if you have specs that you use or if you know factory specs that I should include on the spread sheet, please let me know. I would be happy to make this spread sheet available to forum members. Because it is an Excel document I can't include it in this posting, however if you would like a copy PM me your e-mail address and I will send one to you. Do not put your e-mail addy in a reply to this thread - spam bots can easily find these. I will send each reply as a separate e-mail, that way your address will not be spammed to other forum members. It might take me a couple of days to get replies e-mailed out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members knotty Posted September 21, 2014 Members Share Posted September 21, 2014 Cheers freeman. Pm sent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Emory Posted September 22, 2014 Members Share Posted September 22, 2014 You just keep on making sane, very useful posts. I promise not to hold that against you, however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WRGKMC Posted September 22, 2014 Members Share Posted September 22, 2014 Here's some entries you can add to the spread sheet in case someone wants their guitar action to match a famous musicians guitar. http://www.stewmac.com/How-To/Online_Resources/Action_and_Setup/How_the_stars_set_up_their_guitars.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members knotty Posted September 22, 2014 Members Share Posted September 22, 2014 Here's some entries you can add to the spread sheet in case someone wants their guitar action to match a famous musicians guitar. http://www.stewmac.com/How-To/Online_Resources/Action_and_Setup/How_the_stars_set_up_their_guitars.html Interesting to read, but why on earth would somebody want to copy someone else's setup, that they have never played? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WRGKMC Posted September 24, 2014 Members Share Posted September 24, 2014 Interesting to read, but why on earth would somebody want to copy someone else's setup, that they have never played? Its because people are dumb enough to think they can play as well as those artists if they only had a duplicate guitar. Manufacturers do make millions on Artist model guitars. Of course when that doesn't work they figure the next step is a duplicate setup, duplicate amp, duplicate gear. A Luthier doesn't have to agree with the person paying him. Nor is he obligated to educate them. Even if he did you will still have people who think they know it all and prefer to learn things the hard way. If that's what they want, you simply give it to them and take their money. They get what they want and you get paid for your work. Of course when reality sets in and they realize that didn't get them there, that purchase may still prove useful. If it brings them to the realization everyone's playing skills are unique, they may abandon trying to be a Copy Cat and start to focus on what they do uniquely well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members knotty Posted September 24, 2014 Members Share Posted September 24, 2014 Its because people are dumb enough to think they can play as well as those artists if they only had a duplicate guitar. Manufacturers do make millions on Artist model guitars. Of course when that doesn't work they figure the next step is a duplicate setup, duplicate amp, duplicate gear. A Luthier doesn't have to agree with the person paying him. Nor is he obligated to educate them. Even if he did you will still have people who think they know it all and prefer to learn things the hard way. If that's what they want, you simply give it to them and take their money. They get what they want and you get paid for your work. Of course when reality sets in and they realize that didn't get them there, that purchase may still prove useful. If it brings them to the realization everyone's playing skills are unique, they may abandon trying to be a Copy Cat and start to focus on what they do uniquely well. It was meant to be a rhetorical question. Artist series I just about get, but setup to copy their idol is a whole new level of stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mrbrown49 Posted September 24, 2014 Members Share Posted September 24, 2014 It was meant to be a rhetorical question. Artist series I just about get, but setup to copy their idol is a whole new level of stupid. It's more for reference. For instance you know how SRV played, hard and fast. Knowing how he and other players had their instruments set up, what they sounded like and how they played can help a tech (or a hobbiest learning the ropes) extrapolate to find different setups for different players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Preacher Posted September 24, 2014 Members Share Posted September 24, 2014 PM sent! Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted September 24, 2014 Author Members Share Posted September 24, 2014 It's more for reference. For instance you know how SRV played, hard and fast. Knowing how he and other players had their instruments set up, what they sounded like and how they played can help a tech (or a hobbiest learning the ropes) extrapolate to find different setups for different players. SRV is a very good example of why I do what I do. If I was presented with his guitar and wrote down the numbers listed on Erlewine's page my first conclusion is that this is a very special and unique guitarist. My second conclusion would be that almost everyone on this forum would hate SRV's guitar - the action is monsterous and even downtuned to Eb those strings have 150 pounds of tension (your wimpy little 10 to 46's are about 100). This guitar is the antithesis of the beautiful little jazz archtop that I worked on over the weekend - my instructions from the owner was "I want the action as low as possible without buzzing..." If I set the archtop up with SRV's numbers the owner would hate it, if I set SRV's to the archtop specs, ditto. If I didn't measure either before starting I wouldn't have a clue what to do. Speaking of SRV, I was privileged to see his second to last concert at an open air venue in Washington state in 1990 - a show I will never forget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WRGKMC Posted September 24, 2014 Members Share Posted September 24, 2014 It's more for reference. For instance you know how SRV played, hard and fast. Knowing how he and other players had their instruments set up, what they sounded like and how they played can help a tech (or a hobbyist learning the ropes) extrapolate to find different setups for different players. You are probably wasting your time Mr. Brown. If you look at the mans post history by clicking on his name, you can most posts are negative. I just write that off as some people see the world as a glass half empty and have no desire to change that perspective view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members knotty Posted September 24, 2014 Members Share Posted September 24, 2014 You are probably wasting your time Mr. Brown. If you look at the mans post history by clicking on his name, you can most posts are negative. I just write that off as some people see the world as a glass half empty and have no desire to change that perspective view. You really don't like anybody questioning your ramblings do you? It really damages your vision of yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members knotty Posted September 24, 2014 Members Share Posted September 24, 2014 I can see the logic in that. Cant see any in asking for SRV spec in the hope of sounding like him though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WRGKMC Posted September 25, 2014 Members Share Posted September 25, 2014 You really don't like anybody questioning your ramblings do you? You don't question people you mock them. Verb: mock; 3rd person present: mocks; past tense: mocked; past participle: mocked; gerund or present participle: mocking 1. tease or laugh at in a scornful or contemptuous manner. synonyms: ridicule, jeer at, sneer at, deride, scorn, make fun of, laugh at, scoff at, tease, taunt; More informal josh, rag on, pull/jerk/yank someone's chain "they mocked her accent" •make (something) seem laughably unreal or impossible. •mimic (someone or something) scornfully or contemptuously. synonyms: parody, ape, take off, satirize, lampoon, imitate, impersonate, mimic; informal send up "they mocked the way he speaks" Adjective 1. not authentic or real, but without the intention to deceive. synonyms: imitation, artificial, man-made, simulated, synthetic, ersatz, fake, reproduction, dummy, sham, false, faux, spurious, bogus, counterfeit, inauthentic, pseudo; More It really damages your vision of yourself. Only individuals who have an inflated ego are susceptible to the damage you suggest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members knotty Posted September 25, 2014 Members Share Posted September 25, 2014 It really damages your vision of yourself. Only individuals who have an inflated ego are susceptible to the damage you suggest. EXACTLY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Preacher Posted September 25, 2014 Members Share Posted September 25, 2014 Geez, a great thread devolves into this? Thanks for the info, Freeman, it really is a great idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members billybilly Posted September 25, 2014 Members Share Posted September 25, 2014 What's a narcissist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted September 25, 2014 Author Members Share Posted September 25, 2014 Thanks for the info, Freeman, it really is a great idea. You are welcome. I hope it is helpful for those who have requested it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members knotty Posted September 25, 2014 Members Share Posted September 25, 2014 Narcissistic Personality Disorder is characterized by a long-standing pattern of grandiosity (either in fantasy or actual behavior), an overwhelming need for admiration, and usually a complete lack of empathy toward others. People with this disorder often believe they are of primary importance in everybody’s life or to anyone they meet. While this pattern of behavior may be appropriate for a king in 16th Century England, it is generally considered inappropriate for most ordinary people today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WRGKMC Posted September 25, 2014 Members Share Posted September 25, 2014 EXACTLY. Faked quotes are not tolerated on this forum. I suggest you re-edit your last post. You have your quotes reversed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members knotty Posted September 25, 2014 Members Share Posted September 25, 2014 You don't question people you mock them. Verb: mock; 3rd person present: mocks; past tense: mocked; past participle: mocked; gerund or present participle: mocking 1. tease or laugh at in a scornful or contemptuous manner. synonyms: ridicule, jeer at, sneer at, deride, scorn, make fun of, laugh at, scoff at, tease, taunt; More informal josh, rag on, pull/jerk/yank someone's chain "they mocked her accent" •make (something) seem laughably unreal or impossible. •mimic (someone or something) scornfully or contemptuously. synonyms: parody, ape, take off, satirize, lampoon, imitate, impersonate, mimic; informal send up "they mocked the way he speaks" Adjective 1. not authentic or real, but without the intention to deceive. synonyms: imitation, artificial, man-made, simulated, synthetic, ersatz, fake, reproduction, dummy, sham, false, faux, spurious, bogus, counterfeit, inauthentic, pseudo; More Only individuals who have an inflated ego are susceptible to the damage you suggest. This is what the site gves when I requote your post. It wont allow or screws up requotes. However I requote your relevant words here. "Only individuals who have an inflated ego are susceptible to the damage you suggest." My response,again, EXACTLY. Your ego wont allow you to see the irony in your statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WRGKMC Posted September 26, 2014 Members Share Posted September 26, 2014 This is what the site gves when I requote your post. It wont allow or screws up requotes. However I requote your relevant words here. "Only individuals who have an inflated ego are susceptible to the damage you suggest." My response,again, EXACTLY. Your ego wont allow you to see the irony in your statement. Whatever you think is fine with me. I'm no thought Nazi. "Hail Knotty". "King of the"...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted September 26, 2014 Author Members Share Posted September 26, 2014 Children, please take your tantrums somewhere else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members knotty Posted September 26, 2014 Members Share Posted September 26, 2014 Sorry your thread got a bit hijacked. Thanks for the spreadsheet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members onelife Posted September 28, 2014 Members Share Posted September 28, 2014 Speaking of SRV' date=' I was privileged to see his second to last concert at an open air venue in Washington state in 1990 - a show I will never forget.[/quote'] I missed the chance. He played about an hour from where I was living at the time and I was just too tired to contemplate the drive there and the drive back after the show. In retrospect... It wasn't long after that chance when my brother called to give me the news. The man was a true artist who was able to capture the essence of Hendrix and make his own personal statement with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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