Members Oswlek Posted July 15, 2014 Members Share Posted July 15, 2014 I think this is the point that probably hits home... there is a culture here. Works for some, not for others. I don't agree that MusesMuse is all flowery feedback... although, I have yet to see a Lee Knight'ish post... but let's face it, LeeK is one of a kind. It isn't! I tried to make that clear in my first post here, that there are a good number of artists I value there as much as here.... and here as much as there. Just pointing out a singular pet peeve is all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bee3 Posted July 15, 2014 Author Members Share Posted July 15, 2014 Would you be surprised to know that I never even once ventured into the Lyrics forum? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted July 15, 2014 Moderators Share Posted July 15, 2014 I don't recall ever seeing anyone slam another's playing ability here. I've seen plenty of honest commenting on how the song (melody, chords) is lacking and might be improved. I've also see all of us have a bad stretch and let out a bit too much venom when critiquing. That is to be expected but it is very rare as far as I can see. There's a new show with Linda Perry coming out were you see her working with and producing new artists. There's a bit where she shouts at the player/singer, "Don't sing your chord changes!!" Exactly. not polite? Oh well. On the money? Absolutely! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Foose31 Posted July 15, 2014 Members Share Posted July 15, 2014 Would you be surprised to know that I never even once ventured into the Lyrics forum? Kinda surprising but then again you probably don't need to to read others for ideas. I like to read others lyrics, good or bad, to get ideas for myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted July 15, 2014 Members Share Posted July 15, 2014 Sounds a lot like the situation in 2007 before there was a moderator. (This is no slag on Lee who has a business, a family, and a life to run.) But newcomers, I'm afraid, probably often perceive a small clique of people already involved in their own business, with little guidance on how to fit into the community or what is expected and not always a welcoming presence -- or even a response -- when they take a shot at posting. There's no question that the enormous infrastructure problems at HC had a lot to do with the decline -- after all, at some points people just couldn't get in for days or weeks at a time -- you don't maintain a community like that. But, I have to tell you, I've watched the number of frequent faces decline around here, even since the forum has been fairly reliable. You guys don't like my solution -- a framework for the forum and a set of rules -- and that's fine -- but it certainly seems to me that Foose31 probably speaks for more people who aren't here than some folks seem to realize. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Oswlek Posted July 15, 2014 Members Share Posted July 15, 2014 Would you be surprised to know that I never even once ventured into the Lyrics forum? Not even remotely. Kinda surprising but then again you probably don't need to to read others for ideas. I like to read others lyrics, good or bad, to get ideas for myself. It was a shot at himself, Foose, not anyone else. Bee is basically saying he knows where his strengths and his weaknesses lie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bee3 Posted July 15, 2014 Author Members Share Posted July 15, 2014 Self-deprecation is a strength of mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bee3 Posted July 15, 2014 Author Members Share Posted July 15, 2014 You guys don't like my solution -- a framework for the forum and a set of rules -- and that's fine -- but it certainly seems to me that Foose31 probably speaks for more people who aren't here than some folks seem to realize.Do you mean having the rules posted at the top? I think the consensus was to remove them so it would be more inviting here. Ha. Maybe it needs to be re-thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Oswlek Posted July 15, 2014 Members Share Posted July 15, 2014 Sounds a lot like the situation in 2007 before there was a moderator. (This is no slag on Lee who has a business, a family, and a life to run.) But newcomers, I'm afraid, probably often perceive a small clique of people already involved in their own business, with little guidance on how to fit into the community or what is expected and not always a welcoming presence -- or even a response -- when they take a shot at posting. There's no question that the enormous infrastructure problems at HC had a lot to do with the decline -- after all, at some points people just couldn't get in for days or weeks at a time -- you don't maintain a community like that. But, I have to tell you, I've watched the number of frequent faces decline around here, even since the forum has been fairly reliable. You guys don't like my solution -- a framework for the forum and a set of rules -- and that's fine -- but it certainly seems to me that Foose31 probably speaks for more people who aren't here than some folks seem to realize. Just bumping Blue's post so it doesn't get lost in the fray. Personally, I think a Welcome! sticky would be a good compromise between tight rules and the clique issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted July 15, 2014 Moderators Share Posted July 15, 2014 Sounds a lot like the situation in 2007 before there was a moderator. (This is no slag on Lee who has a business' date=' a family, and a life to run.) But newcomers, I'm afraid, probably often perceive a small clique of people already involved in their own business, with little guidance on how to fit into the community or what is expected and not always a welcoming presence -- or even a response -- when they take a shot at posting. There's no question that the enormous infrastructure problems at HC had a lot to do with the decline -- after all, at some points people just couldn't get in for days or weeks at a time -- you don't maintain a community like that. But, I have to tell you, I've watched the number of frequent faces decline around here, even since the forum has been fairly reliable. You guys don't like my solution -- a framework for the forum and a set of rules -- and that's fine -- but it certainly seems to me that Foose31 probably speaks for more people who [i']aren't[/i] here than some folks seem to realize. No, I think that is a great solution. Blue used to personally welcome each newcomer. That's a load of work and stretches the limits of my kindness, I'm not much of a host. Come on in, beer's in the fridge. Help yourself... Right after you put your sixer in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bee3 Posted July 15, 2014 Author Members Share Posted July 15, 2014 No' date=' I think that is a great solution. Blue used to personally welcome each newcomer. That's a load of work and stretches the limits of my kindness, I'm not much of a host. Come on in, beer's in the fridge. Help yourself... Right after you put your sixer in.[/quote'] Much to my wife's dismay, I'm the same way. And we entertain ALL THE TIME now since we got the pool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rsadasiv Posted July 15, 2014 Members Share Posted July 15, 2014 No' date=' I think that is a great solution. Blue used to personally welcome each newcomer. That's a load of work and stretches the limits of my kindness, I'm not much of a host. Come on in, beer's in the fridge. Help yourself... Right after you put your sixer in.[/quote'] Bring back the Robo Greeter! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bee3 Posted July 15, 2014 Author Members Share Posted July 15, 2014 How's this for inviting... if you're ever in the area, come for a hang at Club Bee3, where we specialize in writing, recording, drinking, swimming, and chillin'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rsadasiv Posted July 15, 2014 Members Share Posted July 15, 2014 CANNONBALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted July 15, 2014 Members Share Posted July 15, 2014 Do you mean having the rules posted at the top? I think the consensus was to remove them so it would be more inviting here. Ha. Maybe it needs to be re-thought. Well, they totally needed to be stripped down and streamlined, for sure. And maybe they did attempt to put too much structure on things. I get that -- me, I don't like rules. I'm an old hippie. But I also have seen over and over again what happens when you have a loose aggregation of people without some form of organizing principles and rudimentary if flexible, evolutionary structure. Ultimately, I think you guys have to find your own way, you know what you want out of the forum, I should think; you have to do what's right for you as the core community. But I do think if you want to re-grow the numbers, that you might want to give Foose's comments a good look over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted July 15, 2014 Members Share Posted July 15, 2014 No' date=' I think that is a great solution. Blue used to personally welcome each newcomer. That's a load of work and stretches the limits of my kindness, I'm not much of a host. Come on in, beer's in the fridge. Help yourself... Right after you put your sixer in.[/quote'] I know you have a VERY different situation than I do -- and, of course, I don't think it's any secret that I pretty much totally burned out. How's this for inviting... if you're ever in the area, come for a hang at Club Bee3, where we specialize in writing, recording, drinking, swimming, and chillin'. Dude, that is an awesome pool! If I had that pool you'd never see me online. Well, maybe some selfies of me floating around in an innertube. PS... how can you afford the insurance on a diving board??? I haven't seen a pool with a diving board in so long. __________________________________ PPS... On the vampire/fan fiction song stuff... on a strictly personal level, my response is very much in line with Ram's. But, you know, that's how a lot of people start out. And maybe a fair number never really grow beyond that, but it seems in the purview of a constructive crit forum to try to deal with that sort of thing with one's own subjective preferences as tucked away as possible. Certainly that can be difficult at best. Remember the black metal guys who would come in looking for constructive critique on their songs about raping, murdering, and eating the bodies? I found myself decidedly challenged trying to give some of those guys 'objective' feedback. But I tried. At least for a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mbfrancis Posted July 15, 2014 Members Share Posted July 15, 2014 Personally' date=' I think a Welcome! sticky would be a good compromise between tight rules and the clique issue. [/quote'] +1 I can see how people coming to this board at first, fearfully posting their work in public, would be put off by the blunt feedback, or the curt "post some reviews first" or "it's better if you post music too.". We shouldn't expect people to know they're supposed to review first (or bring beer, nice) if we don't tell them. I remember reading the 2:1 rule on another site, so I figured it was good practice here when I got here. Plus I'm blunt, so I appreciate it in others. I am one of those who have no problem reviewing lyrics only, but it's limiting - often I'll rip into a lyric w/out hearing the demo, and then once set to music it all makes sense. It's a double-edged sword. Hey does this count as bringing beer, I'm about to post another track... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bee3 Posted July 15, 2014 Author Members Share Posted July 15, 2014 I pride myself on bringing mbfrancis here... a very good addition. Don't be a bunch of a-holes and scare him away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Foose31 Posted July 15, 2014 Members Share Posted July 15, 2014 I pride myself on bringing mbfrancis here... a very good addition. Don't be a bunch of a-holes and scare him away. Nice. LMAO Last edited by bee3; 07-15-2014, 11:52 AM. Reason: felt compelled to add a comment about a-holes Nice again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mbfrancis Posted July 15, 2014 Members Share Posted July 15, 2014 I pride myself on bringing mbfrancis here... a very good addition. Don't be a bunch of a-holes and scare him away. Thanks for the props, but usually I'm the a-hole having to apologize. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bee3 Posted July 15, 2014 Author Members Share Posted July 15, 2014 Thanks for the props, but usually I'm the a-hole having to apologize. Shut up a-hole! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mbfrancis Posted July 15, 2014 Members Share Posted July 15, 2014 Shut up a-hole! F&*k this I'm outta here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted July 15, 2014 Members Share Posted July 15, 2014 As I understand the current all-ages-friendly HC rules, as a mod, I'm supposed to frown heavily on disguised vulgarities. So here: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bee3 Posted July 15, 2014 Author Members Share Posted July 15, 2014 Perhaps I should change the thread title to "Hysterically speaking..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Marshal Posted July 15, 2014 Members Share Posted July 15, 2014 Yeah, MM has it's rough spots. Oddly enough, the biggest problem isn't people being unfriendly, it is the growing clique that sneers at anyone who has the gall to suggest a post isn't absolutely perfect. They don't seem to get that gratuitous pats on the back, while pleasant, don't actually help anyone get better. I recently got into a spat with someone about another pet peeve of mine... the overly-flowery-comment-that-pretends-to-be-insightful-but-is-ultimately-meaningless. In retrospect, I should have just let it pass, but I still stand by what I said. If anyone wants to follow along, just click here and scroll down to post #27. All that said, there are a number of talented, generous people on that site. I'd say that I've received equally valuable feedback from both there and here. Some songs, like "All in Good Time", really needed both to ring everything out of. Clearly you just need to broaden your thinking. I haven't been around in a while.All the gyrations here have made it tough. Every time I come back it seems there's a different look. Or some editing snafu that leaves my post in never-neverland. But I'll try to hang more. There are some good people here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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