Members Comoxsam Posted April 28, 2014 Author Members Share Posted April 28, 2014 The trick to getting used from L&M is finding something on trade in. Often, folks will have some pretty nice stuff that they trade in, and in the excitement of a new purchase, will let the store take them for cheap. Sometimes even the rentals will be okay. In the last year, I've picked up two "nicely" used LS720P's for $500.00 each - that's half price. BTW and IMHO the E15's are not in the same class as the EF500P's. I've owned E15's, E12's and EX401's - the latter being the best of the bunch. I've also briefly owned the EF500P's and really liked them, but I already had U15's and enough was enough. You mentioned ferry. Are you on the East or West coast? If you're on the West coast I'm in Vancouver, and am at L&M all the time. I can keep an eye out, or ask them to keep an eye out for used but not abused gear. Hi Shaster, I am on Vancouver Island in Comox. (Hence the name ) I have been watching the L+M website for used speakers. There are currently several EF500P's for sale at the N. Van store. Prices are approx $900 and they say they qualify for free shipping. They also have some U15P's for sale ranging in price from $799 to $999. Any thoughts on the EF500P's vs the U15P's? I think someone commented on these two earlier in the thread but I'd love to hear any other opinions on the U15P's too. There are also some EF500P's for sale at the Surrey L+M for $499. I guess L+M prices these things based on rental income they've earned. So I'm guessing these ones are well used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bobby1Note Posted April 28, 2014 Members Share Posted April 28, 2014 Any thoughts on the EF500P's vs the U15P's? I think someone commented on these two earlier in the thread but I'd love to hear any other opinions on the U15P's too. There are also some EF500P's for sale at the Surrey L+M for $499. I guess L+M prices these things based on rental income they've earned. So I'm guessing these ones are well used. I've got U15P's and EF500's. The U15P is a tri-amped 3-way box, with a 60x60 conical horn. There's a Danley-designed summation aperture horn for the HF and 3x MF drivers. The cabinet of the active U15P is larger than that of the passive U15 (deeper/wider/heavier), and you've got on-board selectable delay processing, for time-aligning the U15P when mounting on top of various subs. (front-loaded, FH/RH like the 801P's, and a 9ms delay for rear-horn-loaded subs which require a longer delay time. There's 4 settings if I remember correctly. They're not quite as loud as the EF500's. The mids are very low distortion. It's a very smooth sounding box, with a different character from the more in-your-face EF500's. If I were picky (which I'm not), I'd probably be more inclined to use the U15P's for jazz, or choirs, or most acoustic acts. For rock, I'd probably go with the EF500's.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Shaster Posted April 28, 2014 Members Share Posted April 28, 2014 Hi Shaster, I am on Vancouver Island in Comox. (Hence the name ) I have been watching the L+M website for used speakers. There are currently several EF500P's for sale at the N. Van store. Prices are approx $900 and they say they qualify for free shipping. They also have some U15P's for sale ranging in price from $799 to $999. Any thoughts on the EF500P's vs the U15P's? I think someone commented on these two earlier in the thread but I'd love to hear any other opinions on the U15P's too. There are also some EF500P's for sale at the Surrey L+M for $499. I guess L+M prices these things based on rental income they've earned. So I'm guessing these ones are well used. I was at the North Van store last week, and saw those boxes, at least I saw the U15P's, I can't remember if the EF500P's were around. If I get a minute, I'll PM you with more info. I don't get out to the Surrey store much, so I can't comment on their EF's. The U15P's are pretty big, and heavy. They're even slightly bigger than the U15's which I have. As B1N has stated the U15P's are kind of smooth, and probably not as loud as the EF500P's. Nice boxes though. I've gone subless with my U15's for some gigs and done quite al right, but again, I think you might be better off with the EF's. Back in the nineties I used to get up to the Comox area. I played in Courtenay every couple of months at a hotel that was next to the Superstore (can't remember the name at the moment). That's a nice part of the world. There were a couple of good techs in that area, one worked at the hotel, and there was another guy in Campbell River who was really good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Comoxsam Posted April 29, 2014 Author Members Share Posted April 29, 2014 That would be great Shaster! It's tough to tell what you are getting online. The N. Van store has several EF500Ps but they use the same photo for each on the website. I know it's not a lot of money relatively speaking but I'd hate to buy something over the phone only to find out it's all beat up. I think I'm going to follow your advice along with Bobby1note's and Dookietwo's regarding the EF500s. These things will primarily be used for live rock shows and from the sound of it they will be more than up to the task. I'm also easily sold when I hear comments like "bullet proof" used to describe things. I know the hotel you speak of but the name is escaping me at the moment too. The pub there is called the Mex and still has live music. Lots of great musicians in the area but sadly not a ton of live music these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueGreene Posted April 30, 2014 Members Share Posted April 30, 2014 Man it's really all about the weight. I use two 801s under the old HPR153s these days. I got the hpr at a great price. They're pretty good. The 801s pull off what I'm looking for a little better than what I've seen of the JBL/QSC offerings in the price range (output). Figure out if you need that. If not, go with something lighter. I think the 120lb hpr is easier to lift to the flat top of the sub than an 80lb speaker onto a pole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted April 30, 2014 CMS Author Share Posted April 30, 2014 Regarding digital mixers, I've reviewed two and am working with a third:1. Soundcraft Expression Si2. Mackie DL806 (same functions as the DL1608)3. Line 6 StageScape M20D From my brief time with them, I agree with the concern over tablet longevity. That stuff gets stale faster than Italian bread on a humid afternoon. I also agree that you're way better off paying for a digital mixer than an analog plus peripherals/rack/cabling. The Expression's analog-like interface is nice. We all like knobs and faders, and this mixer still has them. The tradeoff is larger physical size. But this mixer was a true joy to run. The DL's small footprint and large inventory of features are impressive. But I had beau-coup problems getting it to "see" my iPad. I'm apparently not alone in this. Note that without the iPad, you don't have a mixer. The downside to the small footprint is small graphics to manipulate on a virtual screen. Not good for aging eyes. YMMV. The M20D's interface is about the same size as a iPad Mini. Some of the graphics are downright tiny. The interface design is rather unique in the "Here's a stage. Put your stuff on it" approach. It's simple and effective, but someone with plenty of mixing experience might find it quaint or toy-like. I've heard a lot of good reviews of the Presonnus and Behringer offerings, and they deserve a look as well. To break out of analysis paralysis, it may help to first write a list of needs and wants, and match mixers to the list. I know it's hard to even make such a list when you don't have a lot of time in service, but you can build it as you see things you like or dislike. Never be afraid to ask lots of questions...this is new stuff for many of us too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Drummer44 Posted April 30, 2014 Members Share Posted April 30, 2014 ... come with a 7 year warranty (or 5 year in Canada I believe) Al Umm... what's that, an "Imperial" warranty? -D44 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted April 30, 2014 CMS Author Share Posted April 30, 2014 Umm... what's that, an "Imperial" warranty? -D44 No, I think it's has something to do with time zones, or with Canada being closer to the Earth's axis... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Al Poulin Posted April 30, 2014 Members Share Posted April 30, 2014 It may well be 7 years in both the US and Canada, but my dealer keeps telling me 5 years in Canada so ??? I'll have to check with Yamaha I guess... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wesg Posted April 30, 2014 Members Share Posted April 30, 2014 L&M puts stuff on sale in February every year, but I think you have to be physically present to get the sale price. Make sure you are subscribed to the closest store's Facebook page. If you buy used from them, you get a 90 day warranty that is easy to upgrade to 1 year. I have been buying NX55Ps for $450-$500 from them in the Toronto area. You know that L&M has locations in Courtenay and Nanaimo, right? BTW, is there still a helicopter squadron in Comox? If so, you might be able find a cheaper ride to the mainland ... assume you are good with a grappling hook! Wes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Comoxsam Posted April 30, 2014 Author Members Share Posted April 30, 2014 Regarding digital mixers, I've reviewed two and am working with a third: 1. Soundcraft Expression Si 2. Mackie DL806 (same functions as the DL1608) 3. Line 6 StageScape M20D From my brief time with them, I agree with the concern over tablet longevity. That stuff gets stale faster than Italian bread on a humid afternoon. I also agree that you're way better off paying for a digital mixer than an analog plus peripherals/rack/cabling. The Expression's analog-like interface is nice. We all like knobs and faders, and this mixer still has them. The tradeoff is larger physical size. But this mixer was a true joy to run. The DL's small footprint and large inventory of features are impressive. But I had beau-coup problems getting it to "see" my iPad. I'm apparently not alone in this. Note that without the iPad, you don't have a mixer. The downside to the small footprint is small graphics to manipulate on a virtual screen. Not good for aging eyes. YMMV. The M20D's interface is about the same size as a iPad Mini. Some of the graphics are downright tiny. The interface design is rather unique in the "Here's a stage. Put your stuff on it" approach. It's simple and effective, but someone with plenty of mixing experience might find it quaint or toy-like. I've heard a lot of good reviews of the Presonnus and Behringer offerings, and they deserve a look as well. To break out of analysis paralysis, it may help to first write a list of needs and wants, and match mixers to the list. I know it's hard to even make such a list when you don't have a lot of time in service, but you can build it as you see things you like or dislike. Never be afraid to ask lots of questions...this is new stuff for many of us too. Thanks Craig! I have similar feelings about the Mackie DL1608. I can't get my head wrapped around the idea of buying what essentially is an iPad dock. Actually buying anything that relies on a 3rd party device seems dumb. Are there any digital mixers that come with their own removable tablet? (ie. not an iPad). I would buy something like that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Comoxsam Posted April 30, 2014 Author Members Share Posted April 30, 2014 L&M puts stuff on sale in February every year, but I think you have to be physically present to get the sale price. Make sure you are subscribed to the closest store's Facebook page. If you buy used from them, you get a 90 day warranty that is easy to upgrade to 1 year. I have been buying NX55Ps for $450-$500 from them in the Toronto area. You know that L&M has locations in Courtenay and Nanaimo, right? BTW, is there still a helicopter squadron in Comox? If so, you might be able find a cheaper ride to the mainland ... assume you are good with a grappling hook! Wes I have been in communication with my local L+M. They have a bunch of NX55Ps that look like they've fallen off a truck. They do have two EF500Ps which I haven't seen yet as they've been rented out each time I've been there. The prices on all these speakers are not reduced much. NX55Ps $750-$850 and the EF500Ps $1100. I spoke with a guy I found on Craigslist who had two EF500Ps for sale. I inquired if they were still available and he said "Actually I have 8 of them but 6 of them are getting repairs" (Various damages, recones, etc.) "But I do have two that I think still work great". He wants $650. Ummm…….I'm thinking no Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wesg Posted April 30, 2014 Members Share Posted April 30, 2014 $750-$850 is too much for used NX55P, they are $899 new. If they are banged around without covers, the outside can start to look shabby pretty quick, but it should not affect the sound of the speaker unless they are badly abused. Yorkville stuff tends to be VERY durable. I bet they will be on sale again in September in Toronto, dunno if your stores will have them on sale again before February or not. I hope my bet pans out, I want to buy at least two more NX55Ps this year. Ideally, three. That would bring my total to 6, for two tops and four monitors. I could do a show on three monitors without major pain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted April 30, 2014 Members Share Posted April 30, 2014 The downside to the small footprint is small graphics to manipulate on a virtual screen. Not good for aging eyes. YMMV.I have no prob using an iPad Mini with my DL1608 and have eyes that really need trifocals. But I normally wear bifocals "tuned" for computer screen distance and extra close - basically +1 diopter on both lenses over "normal" bifocals. I give up far distance being totally in focus but these are my normal "work" glasses. I also keep a stereo microscope on my bench these days for looking at surface mount PC boards . OTOH I have a pair of single vision glasses for stage, tuned to floor distance for reading setlists - so I can avoid the FOG bifocal "look" . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members abzurd Posted May 1, 2014 Members Share Posted May 1, 2014 Digital mixer wise I currently own 3 - Presonus 16.4.2, Mackie DL1608 and Allen and Heath Qu-16 and have had an extended demo with several shows on the Line 6 Stagescape. Best of the bunch is the A&H Qu-16. Cheaper than all but the Mackie, most capable, all XLR auxes, motorized faders, analog friendly operation, touch screen & iPad operation, very good effects, multi-track recording without a computer, and ability to play back the discrete tracks and remix the shows. Plus a few other smaller pros. Cons for me are really just lack of subgroups, but for a 16 channel board, of the ones mentioned above, only the Presonus has them and it is possible to make subgroups if you don't need all the auxes, which the Qu-16 has 4 mono and 3 stereo of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted May 1, 2014 CMS Author Share Posted May 1, 2014 Thanks Craig! I have similar feelings about the Mackie DL1608. I can't get my head wrapped around the idea of buying what essentially is an iPad dock. Actually buying anything that relies on a 3rd party device seems dumb. Are there any digital mixers that come with their own removable tablet? (ie. not an iPad). I would buy something like that! I'm not aware of anything like that. I think I'd actually like that less than having a known brand of tablet. But I still remain convinced by my experience with the DL that a device that requires a 3rd-party product in order to function is a bad idea. The note that Mackie included with their last update of My Fader sealed the deal on that...they will no longer support the older iOS releases at the next MyFader major update...so the 1st generation iPads will no longer be supported, as they can't run the latest iOS. This doesn't mean they won't work, but that Mackie won't fix bugs caused or involved with the older iOS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted May 1, 2014 CMS Author Share Posted May 1, 2014 I have no prob using an iPad Mini with my DL1608 and have eyes that really need trifocals. But I normally wear bifocals "tuned" for computer screen distance and extra close - basically +1 diopter on both lenses over "normal" bifocals. I give up far distance being totally in focus but these are my normal "work" glasses. I also keep a stereo microscope on my bench these days for looking at surface mount PC boards . OTOH I have a pair of single vision glasses for stage, tuned to floor distance for reading setlists - so I can avoid the FOG bifocal "look" . For me the issue is the combination of no tactile input added to small graphics. Sure, I can "see" the stuff, but when in a hurry (when it really counts) there's much less confidence in hitting the surface accurately. I've also got thick fingers (relative to say, the average guitarist) and found myself fat-fingering controls more than I liked. Someday someone will develop a surface interface that raises into actual control shapes and can still be swiped and otherwise manipulated like a flat glass surface. I don't know where I'll be at that time, but I'm betting I won't smell good. [/Airplane!] PS: I see they removed the "WTF?" sign smilie. PC runs rampant! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wesg Posted May 1, 2014 Members Share Posted May 1, 2014 "Someday" happened a while ago, you can get touch screens now with feelable textures and edges. It's only a matter of time before these wind up in consumer products. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Comoxsam Posted May 2, 2014 Author Members Share Posted May 2, 2014 OK so a little update.... I'm still flip flopping between the EF500P and the U15P decision. I think I've read every snippet regarding these speakers on this site and others. (Probably more than once too.) I don't think I can go wrong either way as I'm guessing they are both great speakers. The experience I'm having dealing with the local L+M store versus the one in N. Vancouver couldn't be more different. The guy in the Vancouver store seems very knowledgeable about the technical stuff and really wants to sell his product. He's even offering free shipping to my house. The local guys technical know-how seems to be "those speakers are awesome." They are also completely unwilling to budge on their price ($200-300 more) despite the fact that their speakers are older and have more than double the rental time on them. The guy at the Vancouver store seems to think the U15P is the better deal as it is the normally higher priced, higher end speaker. $1725 vs $1500. The price he has is $899ea. for both the EF500P and U15P. They have had approximately 120-150 "days" use. I'm not sure if that is a lot? He also thinks the EF500Ps would work better with only one sub than the U15Ps where he says "You'll probably need to use two subs with those." I'm not opposed to that but it just means more cost and stuff to have lying around. The general view seems to be that the EF500P is louder but the U15P is sweeter sounding. I suspect both cabinets would be plenty loud for my purposes but I guess having the ability for more volume is always a plus but so is sound quality. The one sticking point I'm having with the EF500P is the narrow dispersion. Complaints of people close to the stage not being able to hear vocals, etc. (yet others claim this isn't an issue.) There is one venue I can think of where we play on a pretty wide stage so that is a concern. I'm wondering if you can't just aim the speakers inward slightly to help with this issue? Also is one speaker going to be better for outdoor gigs? Anyhow I've also found some more EF500Ps on Craigslist for $650ea. and they are the non-rat fur models (which I would like) however they are in Whistler which is 10hrs worth of travel for me. I may try to talk the guy into possibly shipping them to me. However that could be risky if things go sour and it being a private deal. Hmmmm.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Shaster Posted May 2, 2014 Members Share Posted May 2, 2014 WARRANTY!!! That's what you'll have if you get them from L&M, at least three months possibly more if they let you bump them up to a year. I'm going to PM you because I don't want to get into a store battle, in public so to speak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted May 2, 2014 CMS Author Share Posted May 2, 2014 Anyhow I've also found some more EF500Ps on Craigslist for $650ea. and they are the non-rat fur models (which I would like) however they are in Whistler which is 10hrs worth of travel for me. I may try to talk the guy into possibly shipping them to me. However that could be risky if things go sour and it being a private deal. Hmmmm.......... Buying speakers site-unseen is a fool's business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Comoxsam Posted May 3, 2014 Author Members Share Posted May 3, 2014 Buying speakers site-unseen is a fool's business. Indeed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members abzurd Posted May 3, 2014 Members Share Posted May 3, 2014 Buying speakers site-unseen is a fool's business. Used... I agree. Even more risk as the model has been production so long that these things could be over 10 years old, possibly have had several owners and may have 1000 shows on them. Add the substantial cost of shipping 200 lbs...... no thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wesg Posted May 5, 2014 Members Share Posted May 5, 2014 FWIW- there is a way to decode the manufacture date from the serial number of Yorkville speakers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Comoxsam Posted May 6, 2014 Author Members Share Posted May 6, 2014 FWIW- there is a way to decode the manufacture date from the serial number of Yorkville speakers. I'm interested…. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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