Members Destructobot Posted November 12, 2007 Members Share Posted November 12, 2007 Do they involve any magical mystery mojo parts from yesterdecade, or is it all stuff that's still being made? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members echodeluxe Posted November 12, 2007 Author Members Share Posted November 12, 2007 all the parts were hand made by jimi hendrix. to answer seriously, we are using all new components, because everything we need is available in better (more robust) components, and the values are all perfect matches. why use old stuff when the new stuff is better and sounds the same? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members NITEFLY182 Posted November 12, 2007 Members Share Posted November 12, 2007 Do exact clones use all current production parts? Hope you aren't using metal films or anything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members echodeluxe Posted November 12, 2007 Author Members Share Posted November 12, 2007 Do exact clones use all current production parts? Hope you aren't using metal films or anything when i say exact clone, i mean same circuit, same components. its unrealistic for any company to base a product on NOS parts. also, all the components used have the exact same values and characteristics, save some parts with higher max values (which is good, basically it means you have to try harder to fry the thing)so, yes.and carbon film;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Destructobot Posted November 12, 2007 Members Share Posted November 12, 2007 I totally agree with you about the use of NOS parts in new production stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Electric Catfish Posted November 12, 2007 Members Share Posted November 12, 2007 I don't think there are any real, verified advantages to carbon comp resistors in a pedal, anyway, from what I gather. I could be wrong, of course, as I'm far from an expert on that kind of thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Liberty Belle Posted November 12, 2007 Members Share Posted November 12, 2007 carbon comp isnt nos,theyre still made today as are ceramic caps. its not a clone without these things and it will not sound the same without them either,havent even mentioned the transistors yet! you may think you can have a "EXACT" vintage fuzz cloned with modern parts but you cant,it goes against what a clone is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members echodeluxe Posted November 12, 2007 Author Members Share Posted November 12, 2007 carbon comp isnt nos,theyre still made today as are ceramic caps.its not a clone without these things and it will not sound the same without them either,havent even mentioned the transistors yet!you may think you can have a "EXACT" vintage fuzz cloned with modern parts but you cant,it goes against what a clone is! electrically, there is nothing different from the old carbon comps and the carbon film, or the metal film for that matter. metal film is more robust therefore it lasts longer. it has nothing to do with the tone. for the re4cord im using the carbon film resistors. they will last longer and they wont fail, or at least not as easily. the diodes used in this clone are the same germanium diodes they have been using forever. glass package and all. speaking from an engineering perspective, electrons do not care whatsoever if a component is "vintage" or what its made of, so long as the values are the same. every cap, resistor, pot, transistor, and diode are of the same value as the ones that were made in 68 through the late 70's, except they are brand new, not old. and btw, when pete townsend and jimi hendrix used the super fuzz, they werent "NOS" or "vintage". they were brand spanking new. the only difference between the components i am using and the components they used back then are the components i use wont fry as easy. thats it. you can say its not an "exact clone" or whatever you want. fine. semantics. it will sound the same, its the same circuit, voltages, values, circuit path, everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members echodeluxe Posted November 12, 2007 Author Members Share Posted November 12, 2007 carbon comp isnt nos,theyre still made today as are ceramic caps.its not a clone without these things and it will not sound the same without them either,havent even mentioned the transistors yet!you may think you can have a "EXACT" vintage fuzz cloned with modern parts but you cant,it goes against what a clone is! and you are right, it wont be a clone, because to be a clone i would have to take a vintage super fuzz, and somehow make two of the exact same one. and i mean physically they would have to be the same part, as if i were to clone a sheep. by definition no "clones" on the market are clones. same way that every musician uses the word vintage wrong. vintage doesnt describe something that is old, vintage means the year. 2007 is a vintage by definition. so lets not argue semantics, shall we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members echodeluxe Posted November 12, 2007 Author Members Share Posted November 12, 2007 I don't think there are any real, verified advantages to carbon comp resistors in a pedal, anyway, from what I gather. I could be wrong, of course, as I'm far from an expert on that kind of thing. you are absolutely right. the modern equivalent with the same value would sound the same. why wouldnt it? the thing resists current flow! thats it! has nothing to do with the tone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jgonzales Posted November 12, 2007 Members Share Posted November 12, 2007 you should make the delay some really weird shape. make the tap tempo as slow as like 4 seconds in between taps.. with the boss or digitech ones i've seen, well actually every delay i've seen, you get maybe a half second of time in between taps before it crapps out. that would rule. also, is it possibly to have infinite time on a delay? hahaha i would kill to have a delay with like 3 hours on it, it'd be ridiculous and unnecessary, but would rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Liberty Belle Posted November 12, 2007 Members Share Posted November 12, 2007 its not semantics and im telling you from experience it wont sound the same,you wana know about this kinda thing talk to skreddy, he knows and has as a lot of experience in it.byoc sells "triangle muff clones" but they dont sound the same,skreddys do sound the same as the parts are of the same materials and so forth.even tho the byoc uses same values it sounds totally different as it lacks the transistors,ceramics and carbon comp resistors. ss circuitry is more reliable than tube but it doesnt mean it sounds as good or better,we all know that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members paperhouse Posted November 12, 2007 Members Share Posted November 12, 2007 and btw, when pete townsend and jimi hendrix used the super fuzz... i know townsend used the SF but i'm pretty sure jimi used the fuzz face, octavia, and various roger mayer creations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members echodeluxe Posted November 12, 2007 Author Members Share Posted November 12, 2007 its not semantics and im telling you from experience it wont sound the same,you wana know about this kinda thing talk to skreddy, he knows what he as a lot of experience in it.byoc sells "triangle muff clones" but they dont sound the same,skreddys do sound the same as the parts are of the same materials and so forth.ss circuitry is more reliable than tube but it doesnt mean it sounds as good or better,we all know that. you cant argue with science man. what would make it sound any different? read what i said.all the components i use are new, the only difference is their higher tolerance. thats it. i dont need to talk to anyone because i do know this kind of thing. if you knew how electricity worked and the basic fundamentals of it, you would agree with me. i dont wanna start a flame war, and if you dont believe me thats fine, you dont have to buy my pedal. i didnt look at the circuit board picture from a vintage one and go "hey im just gonna stick a bunch of components that look the same on a board and call it a clone!" i did lots of research. i tested different components. i *tirelessly* looked up specs and compared all the components with the old stuff. electrically, theres no difference. the electricity doesnt care what the resistors are made of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members echodeluxe Posted November 12, 2007 Author Members Share Posted November 12, 2007 i know townsend used the SF but i'm pretty sure jimi used the fuzz face, octavia, and various roger mayer creations http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Univox_Super-Fuzzjimi used tons of stuff. im not sure how long he used it, but apparently he did. wiki could be wrong. either way, townsend used it for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Liberty Belle Posted November 12, 2007 Members Share Posted November 12, 2007 you assume i know little but have no idea who i am or what i know, i only speak of what i know,pretty simple. anyways,ya can make what ya want how ya want,you may even learn something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members echodeluxe Posted November 12, 2007 Author Members Share Posted November 12, 2007 you assume i know little but have no idea who i am or what i know, i only speak of what i know,pretty simple.anyways,ya can make what ya want how ya want,you may even learn something. you are absolutely right. i dont know who you are, i dont know what youve done, and i dont know where you have been. but you havent made any counter arguments that hold much water, and you havent proven me wrong. i dont assume anything. but i can deduct from what you are telling me that you may not be as well informed in this field as you think. honestly, if you can provide solid evidence to prove that carbon film and carbon comp resistors sound any different then please prove me wrong. its all snake oil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members echodeluxe Posted November 12, 2007 Author Members Share Posted November 12, 2007 if you would like, i will provide you with a part list (in the morning, im getting tired) and you can compare all the components with old ones. you will see that everything im using is the same that they used back then, except they were made recently. same trannies, same diodes, same rectifiers, same everything. aaannnd sorry for the double post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Liberty Belle Posted November 12, 2007 Members Share Posted November 12, 2007 yes i know you said your using the correct values and circuit. for example of my point try this, order a byoc tri muff kit build it from the instructions, then order another one and build it with nos parts and argue theres no difference. not too much i can say online or in person that holds water but when you've built {censored} loads of effects and experimented extensively with new and nos parts in certain circuits you tend to know a few things wouldnt ya think!?!?!?!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members echodeluxe Posted November 12, 2007 Author Members Share Posted November 12, 2007 :sigh: i dont argue that you havent had experience with building pedals. thats fine. and im glad more people are getting into it and learning. its a great hobby and lots of fun. however, i suggest you do some more research before calling someone out especially on a product you havent heard or seen yet. you have no idea how the components will work in my circuit, and you cannot tell me or anyone that a pedal will not sound right if you have no evidence to back it up. there will be a difference in tone with the byoc tri muff kit and a vintage one because the kit doesnt use the same circuit, and the components are not the same. just because a component is old, it does not, i repeat, DOES NOT mean it sounds different/better. next you are gonna try to tell me that cloth covered wire sounds better:rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Liberty Belle Posted November 12, 2007 Members Share Posted November 12, 2007 one thing confuses me as you claim you know all this {censored} but just back in july you were asking how to mod a big muff for more volume hereand here under different names mind you, but its you nonetheless you admit that herethen last month you were asking what the trims in a DMM would do and if you could adjust them for more time,here so here i am thinking "how on earth is this guy designing new analog delays and cloning old fuzz' when he cant even mod a bigmuff?"something just aint right with all this imo!i'm not trying to start {censored},i'm merely stating what is apparent to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members melx Posted November 12, 2007 Members Share Posted November 12, 2007 next you are gonna try to tell me that cloth covered wire sounds better:rolleyes:it doesn't??!! my illusion is shattered, I hope you are happy now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members echodeluxe Posted November 12, 2007 Author Members Share Posted November 12, 2007 and yes, there are plenty of things you can say online AND in person to refute my argument, but since you do not have the electronics backround i do, you lack the proper knowledge of the components to provide me with any information to show me that any of what you say is true. furthermore, this circuit (and the choosing of components) was largely headed up by my partner, who is 49, has been building/repairing/servicing/designing tube and analog circuits since he was 19, where he started out as an avionics radio technician in the air force. he has an EXTENSIVE backround in electronics and passive components, and anything i have learned about electronics and its components, i trust entirely. right now hes a software programmer at sony (his sound module program has been used on every sony videogame/game system since the early 90's) and he also knows more about computers than anyone i have ever met. hes sitting right behind me. if you would like to continue this discussion with him, he would be glad to point you in the right direction:thu: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Liberty Belle Posted November 12, 2007 Members Share Posted November 12, 2007 no, i was talking to you,not him...i repeatone thing confuses me as you claim you know all this {censored} but just back in july you were asking how to mod a big muff for more volume hereand here under different names mind you, but its you nonetheless you admit that herethen last month you were asking what the trims in a DMM would do and if you could adjust them for more time,here so here i am thinking "how on earth is this guy designing new analog delays and cloning old fuzz' when he cant even mod a bigmuff?"something just aint right with all this imo!i'm not trying to start {censored},i'm merely stating what is apparent to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members echodeluxe Posted November 12, 2007 Author Members Share Posted November 12, 2007 no, i was talking to you,not him...i repeat one thing confuses me as you claim you know all this {censored} but just back in july you were asking how to mod a big muff for more volume here and here under different names mind you, but its you nonetheless you admit that here then last month you were asking what the trims in a DMM would do and if you could adjust them for more time, here so here i am thinking "how on earth is this guy designing new analog delays and cloning old fuzz' when he cant even mod a bigmuff?" something just aint right with all this imo! i'm not trying to start {censored},i'm merely stating what is apparent to me. ok you linked to a page on which i link to a page here where it is blatantly obvious i know what im talking about (concerning filter caps in a tube amplifier power supply) i made the big muff thread to see what people where doing to mod their big muffs for more volume. turned out the headroom of my amp wasnt enough to allow any more volume when the muff was engaged, and at that time i wasnt very experienced with pedal circuits, or electrical components for that matter. in the last 6 months, ive had a large crash course in electronics, as my fiend and i have wanted to start a company to build tube amplifiers and other music electronics. since he obviously has a massive backround in this stuff, he taught me alot about passive components, circuit design, schematics, the basis of electricity and how it really works, design from an engineering perspective, etc... i admit that i am pretty new to all of this, but i can safely say that in this situation, i am a little more knoledgable (especially with the human computer sitting next to me) anything i have said is fully backed up by my partner. so, basically, you are arguing with someone who is a professional in this field, you being a hobbyist i do appreciate the challenge, as i would hope no one would buy into my products without some backround and knowledge. gain, i dont want this to be an argument, but this has gone far enough. and hey, im a fast learner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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