Germanium, how does that work?

[cryptosonic]

Germanium makes you're German. Also I rubbed one out to this:

[Instrospection]

but is it splatty?

 

 

Yeah, I usually find germanium a bit grainier sounding--I don't like to use it all the time, because it really tends to have alot of color and brightness to the sound.....especially in boosts. I usually have to EQ the highs out a bit with germanium. A Fuzz Factory is germanium, whereas a Muff is silicon.

[ItchyFingers]

For a while I bought into the Germanium hype. I thought Si Fuzzes were inferior to Ge because the supply of good Ge transistors is waning, so Ge must be better, right?!?. In the end, I realized that neither is better but they are different. If you want a looser, bassier, sound GE is the way to go, if you want tighter, higher-gain then Si is the best bet. All that said, my Analogman NKT-275 SunFace is the BEST fuzz I've ever played, but my Fulltone '70 is amazing too.

This is very accurate. The mojo of germanium appears to be directly related to the fact that they are getting tough to find. I've heard rumors that Mike is no longer selling the NKT-275s anymore, even at the elevated price point - so hang on to that sunface boytbpc! The NOS Ge Trannies are simply running in short supply and the ones that have been made as replacements apparently don't sound as good.

With that said, I just paid $18 for a matched pair of GE trannies from Small Bear for a PNP Fuzz Face I am going to build. Three times the price I paid for all other components combined.

[christianatl]

Hey!

 

We're actually talking about pedals!

 

Sweet!

[IamBurnout]

I love the way germanium reacts when the bias is off.

 

It adds character.

[Instrospection]

This is very accurate. The mojo of germanium appears to be directly related to the fact that they are getting tough to find. I've heard rumors that Mike is no longer selling the NKT-275s anymore, even at the elevated price point - so hang on to that sunface boytbpc! The NOS Ge Trannies are simply running in short supply and the ones that have been made as replacements apparently don't sound as good. With that said, I just paid $18 for a matched pair of GE trannies from Small Bear for a PNP Fuzz Face I am going to build. Three times the price I paid for all other components combined.

The EHX Germanium OD has an NKT-275 in it--dunno how many that EHX has left, but maybe they still have tons.

[TomCray]

[YOUTUBE]FGbdomlBnJM[/YOUTUBE]

[aeon]

my experience with germanium fuzzes is that the splat effect is more pronounced depending on the circuit. fuzz faces, whther Si or Ge, have that almost as a feature, and it gets exaggerated when pushed with another gain source. Tonebenders compress a bit more gracefully, and dont lend themselves to that limiting effect as much. I'd be interested in hearing the change the Ge trans will have on a muff circuit.

While the differences between Ge and Si are there, they are either masked or enhanced by the surrounding circuit.

My analogman Sunlion and ZVex Fuzz Factories are all Ge, but they couldn't be more different because of the rest of the circuit.

I have no idea what the Ge Muff is like - but all shades of dirt are welcome, and in general, I love Ge transistors as it concerns audio circuits. The Chandler Germanium pre is a thing of great beauty.


cheers,
Ian

[SirBlend12]

This is very accurate. The mojo of germanium appears to be directly related to the fact that they are getting tough to find.

 

 

I think the main reason for the hype is exactly this, EXCEPT for the fact that it isn't all that true. Maybe NKT-275s are becoming scarce because they are used so often, but there are plenty of germaniums out there, in all sorts of varieties, just like silicon.

 

The problem is that this has just become another marketing tactic which (despite being true for some transistors... NKTs, 2n270s, etc.) has led people to believe that a germanium transistor is akin to a leprechaun riding a unicorn through Atlantis.

 

Though the most sought-after pieces are running out, there are plenty of alternatives available that make some pretty cool sounds.

[H.R. Shove and Stuff]

Germanium are leaky transistors that vary way too much from one to the next. The 'good' ones are become more rare because in all other cases besides effects pedals, they are useless compared to Si and more technology that has developed in the last 50 years.

[SirBlend12]

Germanium are leaky transistors that vary way too much from one to the next. The 'good' ones are become more rare because in all other cases besides effects pedals, they are useless compared to Si and more technology that has developed in the last 50 years.

 

 

This is, along with many other comments here, true. But they do still have their place in dirt pedals. Even the leaky ones.

 

I just love gooey, honkin' 60's fuzz, and they still excel at it.

[nankuamedha]

Frantone makes a Ge Muff called The Sweet, and Nightfly/Montgomery Appliances also has one called The Badlands. I havn't played either of them but I'm very curious how they would compair to a 'normal' muff.

[Bobby D]

there's no "mojo" to it

Germanium trannys tend to sound better in audio circuits, due to many characteristics.

germanium transistors only had a SHORT heyday, and there were MANY issues with them. they are sensitive to temperature, they tend to be leaky.

Silicon was rapidly developed as an alternative material, and RAPIDLY became the dominant semiconductor material.

The reason germanium transistors are RARE is very simple -- as SOON as silicon transistors came into being, they QUICKLY replaced germanium models. They were not nearly as sensitive to temp fluctation, had much less leakage, and could have higher gains.

Germanium trannies were already dinosaurs by the 1970s.

and there was not really much reason for the major semiconductor manufacturers to make more of them.

semiconductor makers only make stuff in LARGE quantities.

it would be ENORMOUSLY expensive to make new ones.

even if you added up ALL the pedal makes in the world today, and combined their orders, it would not be enough to make it profitable.


so......germanium transistors are rapidly becoming extinct. the MILITARY is probably one of the last sources to have significant numbers of these parts. i am sorta thinking guys like David Main MUST have some sort of inside connection with someone who has access to these parts.

germanium transistors are AMAZING in guitar pedals and specialized audio circuits. other than that, they are practically useless in modern electronics.

and that, my friends, is the rest of the story.

[Demian03]

this thread is like school holy {censored}.

now somebody needs to post the ultimate Ge fuzz clip and we can call it a day

[Instrospection]

Germanium are leaky transistors that vary way too much from one to the next. The 'good' ones are become more rare because in all other cases besides effects pedals, they are useless compared to Si and more technology that has developed in the last 50 years.

 

 

True. I like that the germanium ones are a bit cranky and less predictable though....

[companyman]

oh hai guys, what's happening in here?

[companyman]

remember the good old days, when Natty would pop in your thread, drop some science, and dog out EHX pedals, even though he manufactured them, and respond with a hearty "aye"...remember that?

:cry:

I feels so empty....

[Phil O'Keefe]

a leprechaun riding a unicorn through Atlantis.

Pics or it was Bobby D riding a Harley through Atlanta.

[THAT4301]

Germanium are leaky transistors that vary way too much from one to the next. The 'good' ones are become more rare because in all other cases besides effects pedals, they are useless compared to Si and more technology that has developed in the last 50 years.

 

 

Important note about germanium transistors: almost all the good ones are already in pedals. Lots of what's for sale on ebay etc. is leaky crap that failed QC when they were first produced.

 

Part of the 'sound' of Ge transistors is the low Hfe- which can be simulated in silicon by 'piggybacking' transistors.

[Bobby D]

yep. there are still some good transistors out there, but they are hidden in weird places. maybe some old guys garage who used to have an electronics repair shop.

most of them have been "ferreted out" by pedal geeks....

but i bet the military still has a stockile of them somewhere.

the electronic warfare gear i was trained to run in the 80s was still TUBE gear.

[THAT4301]

yep. there are still some good transistors out there, but they are hidden in weird places. maybe some old guys garage who used to have an electronics repair shop.

 

 

But triple check for damp, germanium is water soluble!

[IamBurnout]

a leprechaun riding a unicorn through Atlantis. Pics or it was Bobby D riding a Harley through Atlanta.

I fail to see the difference.

[companyman]

man, this thread has turned into awesome sauce, I am chomping at the bit for Germ Big Muff demo's....c'mon people, someone must have one by now!

[companyman]

really? No one picked one up yet? I saw them on ebay for $99.99....alas I have no cash to spend.

[blingdogg]

I'm curious about the Germ Big Muff. It sounds like it could be a cool pedal. My birthday's coming up in September and I'm thinking of getting one.


Oh, and it's funny how so many people posted all those "witty" posts that aren't even funny.

I'm hoping the Germanium Big Muff is closer to a Double Muff than an actual Big Muff Pi

Me too. I like my Double Muff.