The Steve Jobs Disposible Culture Thread

[V]

really? every month?

 

 

Ok, fine. Almost every month for the past few years.

 

Timeline of Apple Products

[Mistersuperfly]

Apple releases several new products a month?? They have 4 major products... Computers, iPods, iPhones, and iPads, with a few different models of each at different price points/capabilities.

 

Each one of those products gets revised about once a year... how does this translate to several new products a month?

[V]

Apple releases several new products a month?? They have 4 major products... Computers, iPods, iPhones, and iPads, with a few different models of each at different price points/capabilities. Each one of those products gets revised about once a year... how does this translate to several new products a month?

 

 

Each of those are a family of products that contain many products and that is also not all Apple makes. They also make software and subscription/service products which are frequently updated.

 

Again, I'm not saying they are worse than other companies about this, but in recent years they have regularly released many different products.

[nomenclature]

hey guys, let's put a freeze on technology and innovation to stop wasteful consumerisim... if we don't develop anything new/improve on the old and make a slow five year release cycle, then people will stop wanting to buy things and be more Eco friendly, right?

NO NEW TECH! DOWN WITH THE INTERNET! UP WITH ROTARY PHONES!

that'll fix the world.

[seifukusha]

ya, people complain about manufacturing jobs disappearing in the U.S. and they say they need to come back for the sake of our middle class, but I'm honestly starting to feel that we're probably past the point in our economy where "factory job = middle class", so I think our effort would be better spent discovering and devising what the next evolutionary step for the middle class will be instead of looking backwards trying to return to an outdated model.

 

 

+1000 I say this all the time

 

and as fas as the megalomaniac thing, you kind of have to be to be a mad genius, no?

[MrNixon]

 

hey guys, let's put a freeze on technology and innovation to stop wasteful consumerisim... if we don't develop anything new/improve on the old and make a slow five year release cycle, then people will stop wanting to buy things and be more Eco friendly, right? NO NEW TECH! DOWN WITH THE INTERNET! UP WITH ROTARY PHONES! that'll fix the world.

 

 

like i said earlier, its not about stopping tech. its about knowing the difference between needs and wants.

 

i'd vote, but i feel that the cultural environment is what is dictating the disposability of everything, as opposed to what the pollmaker made, which states that disposable culture is Apple's creation. Superfly had a good rebuttal which stated that other manufacturers have an even more out of hand disposability, which is true! PCs seem to be designed to make themselves obsolete.

 

it comes down to that whole 'teach a man to fish' adage. IMO, i'd rather have a Baby Taylor instead of a new ipod, even though some people might say 'dude, you need a new iPod.' No, i dont, thank you. "Dude, you have a flip phone?" {censored} yeah i do, and while there have been moments where im wandering around NYC wondering where the {censored} i should go, I DONT need a smart phone.

 

Look for products that get better with age. Learn to maintain those products. I had posted earlier that my 3rd gen (?) ipod probably wont play in the field for more than half and hour, but it still works, and i still have and use it.

[NetStar]

Each of those are a family of products that contain many products and that is also not all Apple makes. They also make software and subscription/service products which are frequently updated.

 

 

Actually, iLife has only just had half the suite updated for the first time since late 2008 and iWork has had no update as yet.

 

Same call for Logic and Final Cut.

 

OSX Lion has been announced, but isn't available until next year - giving Snow Leopard an 18 month life cycle, too.

[V]

Actually, iLife has only just had half the suite updated for the first time since late 2008 and iWork has had no update as yet. Same call for Logic and Final Cut. OSX Lion has been announced, but isn't available until next year - giving Snow Leopard an 18 month life cycle, too.

 

 

Wasn't the whole premise of the thread that Apple (and many other companies) encourage you to get a new version of their product every 1-2 years? That sounds right on target.

 

Same thing with a new version of iPod or iPhone every year or so.

 

I am not saying their products don't last beyond 1-2 years but the encouragement is definitely to upgrade at that approximate timeframe unless someone is going to argue that Apple doesn't want people to buy the new versions of their stuff as much as possible (which would be absurd).

 

And none of this changes that Apple does (currently) release new products on a close to monthly basis. Nobody is implying that they release a new version of the same product every month.

[soulsonic]

i'd vote, but i feel that the cultural environment is what is dictating the disposability of everything, as opposed to what the pollmaker made,

 

 

The problem is it's not just the culture, our entire market economy is dependent on the disposable widget. That ultimately is what has created the culture. If they weren't disposable, Apple would soon go out of business, as would every other company that sells "tech" hardware. The same argument has been made about automobiles and other consumer goods. Our economy is based on continually selling these goods. It is a tough challenge, because our world is indeed enriched by technological development, but without appealing to the developer's desire for money and the consumer's desire for toys, it is difficult to motivate development. The government has pushed technological development via agencies like NASA, but it would be foolish to ignore the private sector.

[scolfax]

How about "I'm a fanboy but I don't contribute to the culture of disposibility by buying things I don't need"

[V]

The problem is it's not just the culture, our entire market economy is dependent on the disposable widget. That ultimately is what has created the culture. If they weren't disposable, Apple would soon go out of business, as would every other company that sells "tech" hardware. The same argument has been made about automobiles and other consumer goods. Our economy is based on continually selling these goods. It is a tough challenge, because our world is indeed enriched by technological development, but without appealing to the developer's desire for money and the consumer's desire for toys, it is difficult to motivate development. The government has pushed technological development via agencies like NASA, but it would be foolish to ignore the private sector.

 

 

Yes, this exactly. The the other thing is, if the old materials were routinely made into new ones, the system would be more legitimate. The problem is a lot of obsolete products simply lay around or are thrown away.

 

If more companies offered incentives to trade in your old product so they could reclaim the materials, that would be a step in the right direction.

[SmallEQ]

Wasn't the whole premise of the thread that Apple (and many other companies) encourage you to get a new version of their product every 1-2 years? That sounds right on target. Same thing with a new version of iPod or iPhone every year or so. I am not saying their products don't last beyond 1-2 years but the encouragement is definitely to upgrade at that approximate timeframe unless someone is going to argue that Apple doesn't want people to buy the new versions of their stuff as much as possible (which would be absurd). And none of this changes that Apple does (currently) release new products on a close to monthly basis. Nobody is implying that they release a new version of the same product every month.

 

 

They have have 5-6 major product lines and another half dozen or so minor ones, how do you expect them to release their stuff?

 

So you'd find it better if Apple would only release their new products one time a year?

 

There are several reasons products get released on staggering cycles.

 

(disclaimer, I work for a supplier of Apple and basically every other key technology company)

 

When a new product goes into production, there are changes to your supply base and manufacturing capabilities. Even after the design and BOM is finalize its a massive undertaking to secure the supplies, manufacturing and logistics. Launching one product like the new Macbook Air is dificult enough, launching Macbook Pros, Mini's, iPhones, iMacs, iPods, Mac Pro's, iPads woudl be insane and impossible.

 

Look again at the timeline you released. They've basically had five huge product launches (Air, iPad, iPhone 4g, iPods, Macbook Pro's) and some minor updates (Macbook, Mini). The only they do to encourage people to buy their new stuff is to advertise that they have new stuff, its not like their products stop working, or don't last or are engineered with some fatal flaw. Your logic is baffling.

[Faldoe]

I remember seeing a Youtube video called "apple's dirty little secret" or something like that about Ipod batteries. I've had a 5th Gen Ipod for some time now with no issues.

The only Apple product I have currently is that ipod but I'm about to take the dive into the Iphone world, getting a IP4....

I get the OP's point but I also think consumers are retards and fall for all the new gadget business buying every new product when it comes out...

[V]

They have have 5-6 major product lines and another half dozen or so minor ones, how do you expect them to release their stuff? So you'd find it better if Apple would only release their new products one time a year? There are several reasons products get released on staggering cycles. (disclaimer, I work for a supplier of Apple and basically every other key technology company) When a new product goes into production, there are changes to your supply base and manufacturing capabilities. Even after the design and BOM is finalize its a massive undertaking to secure the supplies, manufacturing and logistics. Launching one product like the new Macbook Air is dificult enough, launching Macbook Pros, Mini's, iPhones, iMacs, iPods, Mac Pro's, iPads woudl be insane and impossible. Look again at the timeline you released. They've basically had five huge product launches (Air, iPad, iPhone 4g, iPods, Macbook Pro's) and some minor updates (Macbook, Mini). The only they do to encourage people to buy their new stuff is to advertise that they have new stuff, its not like their products stop working, or don't last or are engineered with some fatal flaw. Your logic is baffling.

 

 

What logic are you referring to? A poster said Apple released products very rarely.

 

I said, actually, no, they release products all the time and showed evidence that this is true.

 

That's it. I never even remotely implied that staggering the release of products was a bad idea. Of course it makes sense. I just corrected someone who said Apple got a lot of press for releasing products because they do it very rarely, which is clearly not the case.

 

But anyway, neither Apple nor any other manufacturer ever just advertises that they have new stuff. Apple and anyone else advertise that they have new stuff and you should buy it because its better than the old stuff and also better than their competition's product (in this case, those other stodgy software companies). That is how you sell stuff.

 

To reiterate, I have not once passed any judgment on Apple strategies at all and have multiple times said they are no worse than any other large company so stop putting words in my posts.

[m_Calavera]

I get the OP's point but I also think consumers are retards and fall for all the new gadget business buying every new product when it comes out...

Definitely alot of this, I've had the same iPod for 4 years and it's still fine. People just like shiny things I guess.

[Killing Nevada]

jobs is the anti christ. but i still enjoy his {censored}.

[decode6]

I don't think I've ever bought anything Apple.

[carrier street]

All will bow at the alter of the almighty stuff.

[jo_to_2]

Had my ipod since 2004 and has been played heavily and chucked around in bags and dropped etc etc. I use it probably once a fortnight now and it always starts up straight away and works totally fine.

 

Had my macbook since 2006 and up until about a month ago when i replaced it as my main computer it was used daily for probably 12+ hours. Not had a single problem with it and still runs flawlessly.

[Merzbowed]

how do you mean disposable?

 

 

He means planned obsolescence, {censored} like how Apple left out a ton of features in the first gen iPad, for example a pinhole webcam (It's like a super cheap part), media {censored} all over Apple because of that. Now the iPad 2nd gen comes out with the webcam and other features so all the fanboys run out and get their 2nd Gen ipads. Apple is wasteful and bad for the environment.

 

I've also had an iPod touch, thing was cool with apps and everything except for the fact that the battery was close to dying and it would run for like an hour before dying. There's no user serviceable way to replace the battery, so what do most people do? Huck it in the garbage and buy a new one. Also iMacs, the screen gets a giant crack in it what do you do? Go out and buy a cheap lcd like a pc? The computer is built into the monitor so you huck it in the garbage and buy a new one.

[jo_to_2]

He means planned obsolescence, {censored} like how Apple left out a ton of features in the first gen iPad, for example a pinhole webcam (It's like a super cheap part), media {censored} all over Apple because of that. Now the iPad 2nd gen comes out with the webcam and other features so all the fanboys run out and get their 2nd Gen ipads. Apple is wasteful and bad for the environment.

 

 

Could you maybe credit people with more intelligence? I own an iPad and bought it because the feature set was acceptable and useful to me. I would not buy a second-generation model if it was the same as the current one except for a camera slapped on it. If Apple release a new model which I think has features that make it worth me upgrading, I'll sell my current one and buy the new one. Nothing's getting thrown away here.

[boytbpc]

I know reading is hard, but you should look at the article again. That article doesn't have anything to do with forced-obsolescence. They are no longer making NEW versions of the product, but are supporting the current versions. That seems like the very opposite of forced-obsolescence.

culture of waste. I've never purchased an Apple product. I get access to them through my job (iPad, Macbook, iPod Touch, iPod Nano, ...), and I admit that they are fun to use. But I just read this article http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/10/11/05/apple_to_discontinue_xserve_after_jan_31_2011.html ... and again I am reminded how Apple profits from suckering everyone into believing that they need the latest version of his endless line of 1to3-year-lifespan-planned-obsolescence but shiny and gimmicky junk. The company I work for purchased a stock of iPods to give away as incentives. The batteries died on most of them before they were even opened, and of course there is no way to replace the battery. Trash. I had 3 hard drives on my MacBook die in less than 2 years. WTF? To the trash. Isn't it time that Jobs starts thinking "green"? Isn't it time for him to be comitted to a design that allows some interchangeability? or at least a design that lasts more than a year? Why are we such suckers for his ever-spewing factory of junk? Jobs is quoted as saying, "I want to put a ding in the universe." What a megalomaniac. Anyone else here committed to bringing him down a notch?

 

[NetStar]

What logic are you referring to? A poster said Apple released products very rarely. I said, actually, no, they release products all the time and showed evidence that this is true.

 

 

 

 

They also make software and subscription/service products which are frequently updated.

 

 

 

 

Actually, iLife has only just had half the suite updated for the first time since late 2008 and iWork has had no update as yet.

 

 

 

How is 24 months "all the time" or "frequently"?

[attic]

I want a Mac Air, my Dell sucks ass. Battery has lost all life not plugged in withing a year. Screen went out, keys broke and it overheats. I bought it in August 2009. Dell is the true evil here.

 

 

My girlfriend has a macbook. After 3 months, battery dead. Week later, the adapter died. Now her B and V keys don't work. Apple has the same problems as Dell. {censored} that. And I'll take Windows 7 over OSX anyday.

 

I own an iphone. It's a nifty device, but it crashes a lot and sometimes I can't even pick up the phone because it's stuck. I'm going to get me a windows phone 7 pretty soon.

[NetStar]

My girlfriend has a macbook. After 3 months, battery dead. Week later, the adapter died. Now her B and V keys don't work. Apple has the same problems as Dell. {censored} that. And I'll take Windows 7 over OSX anyday.

 

 

Warranty.