OT: IT'S TIME... Who are you voting for ... ???

[grumphh]

I'm not forcing anything. I'm voting. If I'm a minority as you say, then why do you fear me? As long as I'm a minority, you have absolutely nothing to worry about. But if I'm in the majority, then democracy takes its course. Do you agree with democracy? Yes? Or do you only want your opinion to be heard and not that of others?

You seem to equate democracy with majority rule.

 

But how would you feel if the liberal congress suddenly decided to force abortions unto you christians?

Would you still think that that would be a democratic decision?

[Delicious Lamprey Problem]

If abortion is outlawed, I'm buying stock in whatever company makes wire coat hangers.

[droolmaster0]

Hell, man, you ALL scare the living {censored} out of me! Now go vote your conscience and get off my lawn, kthx.

 

So then, why are you here? And keep your damn dog from leaving his turds in my garden. My cat eats them. thanks.

[jjdugan3]

If abortion is outlawed, I'm buying stock in whatever company makes wire coat hangers.

 

Joan Crawford llc.

jcl on the ticker.

[droolmaster0]

Logic is objective and based on universal formal systems and mathematical proofs and not subject to point of view http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logic again this is not a debate- this is simply the misuse of terms inappropriately applied to objective concepts

 

ah - you got there first this time.

[kpatz]

I'd rather be poor and in need all my life and know I saved one life, than to have all the money I could possibly imagine.

Ok, I'll make a deal with you. Send me all your money and synths and I promise I'll never have an abortion. Deal?

[setAI]

If abortion is outlawed, I'm buying stock in whatever company makes wire coat hangers.

 

if that ever happened and we somehow avoided an all-out gender war [yikes- can a society survive a gender war?]- institutions like mine [the University of California] would offer financial aid and transportation to any women in need- to bring them to abortion legal states for proper care-

 

funny- the states that would outlaw abortion already have such low quality third-world health care that you would probably be better off with a coat hanger anyway!

[Don Solaris]

if you read my theology posts above you would see that I do accept evidence of God as higher forms of intelligence in the Cosmos-

 

I fail to see any evidence of God in cosmos. Cosmos doesn't need God, or to be exact, someone to fine-tune some 20 fundamental constants of nature that make the universe the way it is (how much electron weights, strength of gravity and electromagnetic force, strength of weak and strong nuclear forces, etc.). In reality all that is needed is infinite amount of time and you can bet one of universes will be successful (such as is ours).

 

With enough iterations, there will always be one system that will be stable, others will fail i.e. collapse into a black hole, or vanish into pure energy / photon radiation. It's a law of natural selection - a fully automatic system - and as such it doesn't need any God behind it.

[setAI]

I fail to see any evidence of God in cosmos. Cosmos doesn't need God, or to be exact, someone to fine-tune some 20 fundamental constants of nature that make the universe the way it is (how much electron weights, strength of gravity and electromagnetic force, strength of weak and strong nuclear forces, etc.). In reality all that is needed is infinite amount of time and you can bet one of universes will be successful (such as is ours). With enough iterations, there will always be one system that will be stable, others will fail i.e. collapse into a black hole, or vanish into pure energy / photon radiation. It's a law of natural selection - a fully automatic system - and as such it doesn't need any God behind it.

 

that is the point- with infinite iterations of the laws of physics you get infinite civilizations in the universe- some of which develop hypercomputers and forms of artificial and augmented biological intelligence that is as far beyond us as we are bacteria- and which are capable of 'technology indistinguishable from magic' such as running quantum simulations of the whole cosmos which are entangled with every region of the cosmos itself and allow them to interfere and reprogram our or any reality just like a programmer can tweak the physics and structure in a game engine- outside of space and time since the entangled simulation would include all possible pasts and futures within the Hilbert Space of the Simulation: so even thought these Gods evolved through technology or extreme natural conditions- they can transcend time and location to influence even the nature of the Cosmic Singularity and the way in which their OWN world evolved- they thus even fulfill the role of god as creator

 

the existence of gods is easily derived from the standard model of cosmology: the Big Bang Inflationary Universe as well as Quantum Cosmology [with MWI or not! since Quantum Cosmology says that ALL POSSIBLE universes emerge from chaotic cosmic wavefunctions in the Quantum Field]- we can even calculate the statistical distribution of Gods per/galaxy by simply adding one more term to the Drake Equation:

 

we take

 

then add another variable: f-sub-h which is the fraction of technological civilizations that develop hypercomputers- hypercomputers by their very nature sort/reprogram/access all possible worlds and do the work of God-

[droolmaster0]

- we can even CALCULATE the statistical distribution of Gods per/galaxy by simply adding one more term to the Drake Equation : we take then add another variable: f-sub-h which is the fraction of technological civilizations that develop hypercomputers- hypercomputers by their very nature sort/reprogram/access all possible worlds and do the work of God-

 

Well, there is one objective truth arising from all of this - we know with absolute certainty who has the best dope on hc.

[jjdugan3]

"we can even CALCULATE the distribution of Gods per/galaxy"

That's great!...not to be impertinent,is there an equation variable that includes all the Gods opinions on abortion in the cosmological multiverse?

[ChristianRock]

The whole point of the bill of rights and the constitution is that *some* things are not subject to majority vote. The founding fathers understood that some constraints must be imposed on democracy to limit the absolute tyranny of the majority.

 

I've already talked about that. The constitution is there to protect the minorities, among other things.

And I've said that if the constitution defined an unborn as not being a human being, I would not be having this argument and I would have lost my main reason for my vote.

[grumphh]

Isn't that an Obama campaign promise anyway? To take away any form of disencouragement for abortion in the form of pre-counseling and notification of parents by teenagers, among many other things? Looks like I'll have to live with it, won't it?

 

I asked you a perfectly simple (albeit hypothetic) question.

 

Would you call it democracy if a liberal majority through legislation forced your wife to have abortions?

 

 

 

 

 

 

And yes, you have to live with the fact that other people think differently than you do and that other people have the right to act according to their own conscience.

 

But they don't force you to live that way.

 

...i know, that is a hard concept to grasp but there are actually people out there that don't mind that others have beliefs that differ from their own.

[setAI]

"we can even CALCULATE the distribution of Gods per/galaxy" That's great!...not to be impertinent,is there an equation variable that includes all the Gods opinions on abortion in the cosmological multiverse?

 

you don't need an equation for that- if you know their email addresses or call them on the phone you can just ask them

[ChristianRock]

I asked you a perfectly simple (albeit hypothetic) question. Would you call it democracy if a liberal majority through legislation forced your wife to have abortions?

 

It would be democracy, and if it came to that, obviously I would choose not to have kids to start with. Your point is moot.

If she was already pregnant, we'd have the baby and I'd go to jail. I'd rather go to jail and even die, than kill.

 

And yes, you have to live with the fact that other people think differently than you do and that other people have the right to act according to their own conscience. But they don't force you to live that way. ...i know, that is a hard concept to grasp but there are actually people out there that don't mind that others have beliefs that differ from their own.

 

Am I not doing that? You equate expressing my view with imposing it. Not very smart.

[Don Solaris]

such as running quantum simulations of the whole cosmos

 

I will believe this part when someone calculates the amount of energy required for that task.

[jjdugan3]

"Thee Awful Invokation of Tzeentch,"told me,"I believe there is something out there watching us. Unfortunately, it's the government."

[setAI]

I will believe this part when someone calculates the amount of energy required for that task.

 

ok: http://arxiv.org/abs/quant-ph/9904050

 

and also http://www.simulation-argument.com/simulation.html

 

 

I don't think many of you realize that these ideas are coming from a large group of scientists- not just one pot-head posting on KSS

[grumphh]

Am I not doing that? You equate expressing my view with imposing it. Not very smart.

 

Actually, you would impose your views upon your fellow americans if you could.

That is why you get the sort of responses you see here.

 

Why don't you get it?

 

None of the pro-choice people would force your wife to have an abortion.

But you want to take their wives right to have one away from then.

 

Simply based on how you interprete an almost 2000 year old book.

 

...

And BTW, there isn't just one god

There are many, ask the Hindus.

Or disprove them

[rj.phila]

I'd rather be poor and in need all my life and know I saved one life, than to have all the money I could possibly imagine.

 

really? cause im willing to bet that if you sold all the gear you listed in your avatar, you could save a couple lives or 5 in africa by nutritional value via food donations. with all due respect, your statement seems unlikely/bs. you could be doing a world of good if you just sold the computer you are on.

 

not trying to be smart, just saying what seems true/obvious. i have no qualms admitting my participation in a capitalist society that inherently looks out for itself.

 

oh, and here's another thing about abortion, and it applies to things like drug use and pre-marital sex, as well:

 

acting like these things can be dealt with by outlawing them denies the fact that people are going to do them regardless of law. its a basic fact that it just plain does not address the inevitability of them occurring.

[kooki_sf]

I will believe this part when someone calculates the amount of energy required for that task.

 

42?

[ElectricPuppy]

ok: http://arxiv.org/abs/quant-ph/9904050 and also http://www.simulation-argument.com/simulation.html I don't think many of you realize that these ideas are coming from a large group of scientists- not just one pot-head posting on KSS

 

 

Sorry... can't hear you.

 

*points to tin-foil hat*

[jjdugan3]

ok: http://arxiv.org/abs/quant-ph/9904050 and also http://www.simulation-argument.com/simulation.html I don't think many of you realize that these ideas are coming from a large group of scientists- not just one pot-head posting on KSS

When do we get to introduce Wittgenstein into this?

[droolmaster0]

ok: http://arxiv.org/abs/quant-ph/9904050 and also http://www.simulation-argument.com/simulation.html I don't think many of you realize that these ideas are coming from a large group of scientists- not just one pot-head posting on KSS

 

I don't think that you realize that it isn't enough to simply declare that there is a 'large group' (which I'd doubt) of scientists who believe that you can prove God's existence on a blackboard. Certainly the majority of scientists don't believe this, and I'd wager that the vast majority of philosophers would maintain that the notion is philosophically incoherent.

[kooki_sf]

back on topic. who has voted?

 

I did.