I believe and support a lot of the teachings of Jesus

[redrol]

Originally posted by draelyc It's all good. You'll "grow up" eventually, too, and get past this adolescent mentality. Hey, it's better than an infantile mentality -- I'll give you that.

I know a few 'religious folks too and they always seem to have this condescending attitude towards non-believers.

I also know a few scientific folks and I tend to respect what they have to say a {censored}ing hell of a lot more than any religion.

[edit] This thread is funny, its basically a bunch of level headed normal folks debating a few crazy-nut-ball-loony religions freaks.

I will ask this. If religion(god, whatever) is so powerful, how come it is SCIENCE that is allowing people to live 30 years longer than when SCIENCE was not as evolved as it is now.

I put my faith in science and logic because that is the only thing that has ever made any real difference.

[potaetoes]

i can't believe NOBODY laughed at my BOC reference several pages back. jerks.

[chuckgp]

Originally posted by redrol edit I put my faith in science and logic because that is the only thing that has ever made any real difference.

 

 

 

Ahhh, alas!!

 

For that is what 'religion' used to be.

 

Chuck

[yeagermeister]

Originally posted by -=MYK=- Jesus Christ!

Yes.... which teachings of his do you support? Just curious.

[LordOVchaoS]

I support the teachings of Jesus and I do fully believe in God yet... I don't believe in living like sheep, I don't need a church to tell me what to do, I can worship whatever the {censored} I want at home and then go out and have fun. God wants you to have fun, not be a bible thumping wierdo.

[Dominick]

The Father, Son and Holy Spirit = 1
Jesus IS Love.
free choice.
I choose Love

[-=MYK=-]

Originally posted by yeagermeister Yes.... which teachings of his do you support? Just curious.

I could tell you, but you just wouldn't understand.

[yeagermeister]

Originally posted by -=MYK=- I could tell you, but you just wouldn't understand.

 

 

When is the last time you read the Bible?

[-=MYK=-]

Originally posted by yeagermeister When is the last time you read the Bible?

Is that really somehow relevant?

 

What I meant above is, if I did try to tell you I'd probably end up using all sorts of weird scary words, and for the sake of you and me I'll leave them out of this thread.

[yeagermeister]

Originally posted by -=MYK=- Is that really somehow relevant? What I meant above is, if I did try to tell you I'd probably end up using all sorts of weird scary words, and for the sake of you and me I'll leave them out of this thread.

 

 

You sound like someone who made a claim that was false. Feel free to back up the subject of your thread by enlightening all of us, and expounding on which teachings of Jesus Christ you agree with. I'd be very interested in knowing.

[-=MYK=-]

Originally posted by yeagermeister You sound like someone who made a claim that was false. Feel free to back up the subject of your thread by enlightening all of us, and expounding on which teachings of Jesus Christ you agree with. I'd be very interested in knowing.

Why must I back up anything? Give me a good reason and I might consider it.

[yeagermeister]

Originally posted by -=MYK=- Why must I back up anything? Give me a good reason and I might consider it.

It's pretty obvious you don't know what you're talking about. Feel free to prove me wrong.

[-=MYK=-]

Originally posted by yeagermeister It's pretty obvious you don't know what you're talking about. Feel free to prove me wrong.

k

[noseminer]

I didnt read anything after the first page so I dont know if its relevant or not but it would be cool if it was!

[jburn25]

Hopefully in the next few sentances/paragraphs I can help clear up a few misconceptions about what Christians beleive.

Christians never try to "force" anything down someones throat. Everyone knows the old saying "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink." It is a Christians job to present the truths of the Bible to the unbeleivers of the world. And in all honesty, this will come across as "harsh" sometimes. The main reason for Christians to seem harsh or "fanatic" about things is because when you accept Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Savior, you have a fire within you that can't be explained nor stopped. Christians have a heart to tell others about God so that they can experience the same joys and passsions that they have. NOT because they want everyone to beleive what they beleive.

Second, Christians or anyone for that matter cannot make someone beleive anything. And all christians are taught that. Christians share their passion for their saviour and creator with everyone around them and then ultimately it is that persons decision on whether or not to beleive. It is referred to as "planting the seed " in that person's life. Then, the Holy Spirit begins to work in that persons life until they ultimately ignore the truth or accept and change.

Now, sadly enough, all christians do not act according to the Bible. I want to apologize on behalf of us, for we truly aren't perfect and it is our fault for some people rejecting God. It was said " The greatest cause for atheism in the world today, is Christians who claim Jesus as Lord with their lips, but deny Him with their lifestyle." And this is true, Christians do not automaticallly become perfect or sinless when they become saved. In fact, they are just as sinfull as before. The difference is, a Christian now has a new heart that does not desire to be sinful. Thus, starting a life long battle to do right in God's eyes and represent our Lord in the best way possible. Also, that sin is forgiven permanately by Jesus.

People say give me proof of this "faith" or this "Holy Spirit."
I have your proof:
It is all around you. Everyday I wake up, see the sun or the changing seasons and know without a shadow of a doubt that my God made all of it. How can you watch a sunrise, or see a baby being born, or notice a rainbow, without acknowledging that there is a God? There is proof in my life and in all true beleivers lives all around the world. I may not be able to scientifically prove that God made the Earth in seven days, but no one can disprove that my life is totally and radically changed from what it was before I was a Christian. The lives of hundreds of people I have see changed can never be disproved. IT IS A FACT. I know because it happened to me. Everyone has lost people in their lives due to forseen and unforseen circumstances. When a person dies, you are forced to think about where they go after they are dead. Stop and thing about that for a minute. People die, there body is there, it may even have everything it physically needs to survive, but one thing is missing. Their soul. Where does it go. Is it really safe to assume that nothing happens and that Hell isn't real?

I think NOT!!!

It just makes sense to secure yourselves for life after death. Hell is a very real place. A place that no one should ever joke about or ever wish anyone to go there. The Bible says that there will be unquenchable thirst in Hell and gnashing of teeth. Wouldn't you rather play it safe and beleive in God?

There is only ONE way to avoid Hell:

Become a Christian. It is not joining a club or joining a "Religion." It is becoming a CHRISTIAN... a Christ beleiver. Being involved in a church or spiritual group will not get you into Heaven nor direct you away from Hell. Just reading the Bible and taking what you think might help you lead a better life will not get you into Heaven.

It is a personal relationship that will. ACKNOWLEDGE to yourself and God that you really are a sinner. We all are, we all mess up big time. I am at the front of the line for messing up. Good new is we can TRUST Jesus with all our heart and he will forgive us. If we truly beleive in Him we can ask Him into our hearts and he will change us forever and forgive us of all of our sins. End of story. Ther is no clause stating that you must live a perfect life or give all of your money to the poor. All you have to do is confess your sins, beleive in Jesus and ask him to be the Lord of you life, and then turn the other way. A complete 180 from your life of sin

This is when the doing good and telling others comes in. Beleivers can't help but tell others. It is not a requirement by some Church, it is necessity of the spirit to tell others the amazing gift we have found.

I wish that everyone would read this post and honestly stop and think about it. Where would you go if you were to die right now?

.....

You don't know? Well there is no better time than now to make sure.


I hope I have helped in some way to people who are confused about Christianity, and I hope that you will forgive me for ranting too long.

-In Christ-

Jordan JBurn25@aol.com

[potaetoes]

Originally posted by jburn25 Hopefully in the next few sentances/paragraphs I can help clear up a few misconceptions about what Christians beleive. Christians never try to "force" anything down someones throat. Everyone knows the old saying "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink." It is a Christians job to present the truths of the Bible to the unbeleivers of the world. And in all honesty, this will come across as "harsh" sometimes. The main reason for Christians to seem harsh or "fanatic" about things is because when you accept Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Savior, you have a fire within you that can't be explained nor stopped. Christians have a heart to tell others about God so that they can experience the same joys and passsions that they have. NOT because they want everyone to beleive what they beleive. Second, Christians or anyone for that matter cannot make someone beleive anything. And all christians are taught that. Christians share their passion for their saviour and creator with everyone around them and then ultimately it is that persons decision on whether or not to beleive. It is referred to as "planting the seed " in that person's life. Then, the Holy Spirit begins to work in that persons life until they ultimately ignore the truth or accept and change. Now, sadly enough, all christians do not act according to the Bible. I want to apologize on behalf of us, for we truly aren't perfect and it is our fault for some people rejecting God. It was said " The greatest cause for atheism in the world today, is Christians who claim Jesus as Lord with their lips, but deny Him with their lifestyle." And this is true, Christians do not automaticallly become perfect or sinless when they become saved. In fact, they are just as sinfull as before. The difference is, a Christian now has a new heart that does not desire to be sinful. Thus, starting a life long battle to do right in God's eyes and represent our Lord in the best way possible. Also, that sin is forgiven permanately by Jesus. People say give me proof of this "faith" or this "Holy Spirit." I have your proof: It is all around you. Everyday I wake up, see the sun or the changing seasons and know without a shadow of a doubt that my God made all of it. How can you watch a sunrise, or see a baby being born, or notice a rainbow, without acknowledging that there is a God? There is proof in my life and in all true beleivers lives all around the world. I may not be able to scientifically prove that God made the Earth in seven days, but no one can disprove that my life is totally and radically changed from what it was before I was a Christian. The lives of hundreds of people I have see changed can never be disproved. IT IS A FACT. I know because it happened to me. Everyone has lost people in their lives due to forseen and unforseen circumstances. When a person dies, you are forced to think about where they go after they are dead. Stop and thing about that for a minute. People die, there body is there, it may even have everything it physically needs to survive, but one thing is missing. Their soul. Where does it go. Is it really safe to assume that nothing happens and that Hell isn't real? I think NOT!!! It just makes sense to secure yourselves for life after death. Hell is a very real place. A place that no one should ever joke about or ever wish anyone to go there. The Bible says that there will be unquenchable thirst in Hell and gnashing of teeth. Wouldn't you rather play it safe and beleive in God? There is only ONE way to avoid Hell: Become a Christian. It is not joining a club or joining a "Religion." It is becoming a CHRISTIAN... a Christ beleiver. Being involved in a church or spiritual group will not get you into Heaven nor direct you away from Hell. Just reading the Bible and taking what you think might help you lead a better life will not get you into Heaven. It is a personal relationship that will. ACKNOWLEDGE to yourself and God that you really are a sinner. We all are, we all mess up big time. I am at the front of the line for messing up. Good new is we can TRUST Jesus with all our heart and he will forgive us. If we truly beleive in Him we can ask Him into our hearts and he will change us forever and forgive us of all of our sins. End of story. Ther is no clause stating that you must live a perfect life or give all of your money to the poor. All you have to do is confess your sins, beleive in Jesus and ask him to be the Lord of you life, and then turn the other way. A complete 180 from your life of sin This is when the doing good and telling others comes in. Beleivers can't help but tell others. It is not a requirement by some Church, it is necessity of the spirit to tell others the amazing gift we have found. I wish that everyone would read this post and honestly stop and think about it. Where would you go if you were to die right now? ..... You don't know? Well there is no better time than now to make sure. I hope I have helped in some way to people who are confused about Christianity, and I hope that you will forgive me for ranting too long. -In Christ- Jordan JBurn25@aol.com

 

 

 

 

most of the inhabitants of earth believe differently.

[tom_s252]

Originally posted by jburn25 Hopefully in the next few sentances/paragraphs I can help clear up a few misconceptions about what Christians beleive. Christians never try to "force" anything down someones throat. Everyone knows the old saying "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink." It is a Christians job to present the truths of the Bible to the unbeleivers of the world. And in all honesty, this will come across as "harsh" sometimes. The main reason for Christians to seem harsh or "fanatic" about things is because when you accept Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Savior, you have a fire within you that can't be explained nor stopped. Christians have a heart to tell others about God so that they can experience the same joys and passsions that they have. NOT because they want everyone to beleive what they beleive. Second, Christians or anyone for that matter cannot make someone beleive anything. And all christians are taught that. Christians share their passion for their saviour and creator with everyone around them and then ultimately it is that persons decision on whether or not to beleive. It is referred to as "planting the seed " in that person's life. Then, the Holy Spirit begins to work in that persons life until they ultimately ignore the truth or accept and change. Now, sadly enough, all christians do not act according to the Bible. I want to apologize on behalf of us, for we truly aren't perfect and it is our fault for some people rejecting God. It was said " The greatest cause for atheism in the world today, is Christians who claim Jesus as Lord with their lips, but deny Him with their lifestyle." And this is true, Christians do not automaticallly become perfect or sinless when they become saved. In fact, they are just as sinfull as before. The difference is, a Christian now has a new heart that does not desire to be sinful. Thus, starting a life long battle to do right in God's eyes and represent our Lord in the best way possible. Also, that sin is forgiven permanately by Jesus. People say give me proof of this "faith" or this "Holy Spirit." I have your proof: It is all around you. Everyday I wake up, see the sun or the changing seasons and know without a shadow of a doubt that my God made all of it. How can you watch a sunrise, or see a baby being born, or notice a rainbow, without acknowledging that there is a God? There is proof in my life and in all true beleivers lives all around the world. I may not be able to scientifically prove that God made the Earth in seven days, but no one can disprove that my life is totally and radically changed from what it was before I was a Christian. The lives of hundreds of people I have see changed can never be disproved. IT IS A FACT. I know because it happened to me. Everyone has lost people in their lives due to forseen and unforseen circumstances. When a person dies, you are forced to think about where they go after they are dead. Stop and thing about that for a minute. People die, there body is there, it may even have everything it physically needs to survive, but one thing is missing. Their soul. Where does it go. Is it really safe to assume that nothing happens and that Hell isn't real? I think NOT!!! It just makes sense to secure yourselves for life after death. Hell is a very real place. A place that no one should ever joke about or ever wish anyone to go there. The Bible says that there will be unquenchable thirst in Hell and gnashing of teeth. Wouldn't you rather play it safe and beleive in God? There is only ONE way to avoid Hell: Become a Christian. It is not joining a club or joining a "Religion." It is becoming a CHRISTIAN... a Christ beleiver. Being involved in a church or spiritual group will not get you into Heaven nor direct you away from Hell. Just reading the Bible and taking what you think might help you lead a better life will not get you into Heaven. It is a personal relationship that will. ACKNOWLEDGE to yourself and God that you really are a sinner. We all are, we all mess up big time. I am at the front of the line for messing up. Good new is we can TRUST Jesus with all our heart and he will forgive us. If we truly beleive in Him we can ask Him into our hearts and he will change us forever and forgive us of all of our sins. End of story. Ther is no clause stating that you must live a perfect life or give all of your money to the poor. All you have to do is confess your sins, beleive in Jesus and ask him to be the Lord of you life, and then turn the other way. A complete 180 from your life of sin This is when the doing good and telling others comes in. Beleivers can't help but tell others. It is not a requirement by some Church, it is necessity of the spirit to tell others the amazing gift we have found. I wish that everyone would read this post and honestly stop and think about it. Where would you go if you were to die right now? ..... You don't know? Well there is no better time than now to make sure. I hope I have helped in some way to people who are confused about Christianity, and I hope that you will forgive me for ranting too long. -In Christ- Jordan JBurn25@aol.com

I don't think you should be trying to convert people based on fear, which is pretty much what you did with all your hell talk up there. Like Chuck said, don't be scared of imaginary places To me, this place is a construct created by someone in authority to make me do what they want; whether this person is government, church, or even God, I'm not willing to go along with it.

[chuckgp]

jburn25 said:

I have your proof:
It is all around you. Everyday I wake up, see the sun or the changing seasons and know without a shadow of a doubt that my God made all of it. How can you watch a sunrise, or see a baby being born, or notice a rainbow, without acknowledging that there is a God?

I ask the same questions.

But its NOT YOUR GOD, it is God. There's only one.

Sorry, but this part is called DEISM, please don't confuse that with petty literalism, ok?

What does ths have to do with Christ??

What does it have to do with
'a personal relationship' with a mythological being?
(Not a Goddamn thing)

Why not just wonder at the Mystery, and leave out the
bull{censored}?

---then you said:

It just makes sense to secure yourselves for life after death. Hell is a very real place. A place that no one should ever joke about or ever wish anyone to go there. The Bible says that there will be unquenchable thirst in Hell and gnashing of teeth. Wouldn't you rather play it safe and beleive in God?

Hell is a real place, IN YOUR MIND, just like Heaven.
It's a joke that adults are scared of it, worried they will 'go there'.

Bible says, Bible says, Bible says!!!!!!!!!!!

GOOD Polly-parrot, would he like a cracker?

How about a "I played it safe, get into heaven free" card?

What the hell does your REASON say?

Oh I forgot, you don't trust your God-given reason.
You have faith in Hell. You believe in Satan.

Good luck in your mythological struggle.

Chuck

[gdwill2u]

Originally posted by tom_s252 I don't think you should be trying to convert people based on fear, which is pretty much what you did with all your hell talk up there. Like Chuck said, don't be scared of imaginary places To me, this place is a construct created by someone in authority to make me do what they want; whether this person is government, church, or even God, I'm not willing to go along with it.

Mind if I ask you how old you are?

You sound like a rebelious teenager looking for his identity. The first rule in teenager angst is to throw off all authority and to "declare" your self free.

All that is fine and part of growing up, but when these attitudes persue you into adulthood or when they prevent you from honest inquiry into spiritual matters then, this rebellion can prove to be both fatal spiritually and delusional.

I know you hate the for anyone to quote the bible but there is a verse that says the following "Rebellion is lliken to witchcraft in the eyes of the Lord".

Try and remember a lot of christians, including myself, did not grow up christian.....we started out as skeptics but through God's grace began to honestly search for the truth about God. This search for me started out as an attempt or a bias that I thought would lead me to hardcore agnosticism. The result of my honest (I cannot stress that word enough) search was my conversion.

Good luck my friend, take out the bible and your history books and prove to yourself that agnosticiam and atheism is the only logical way to go.

You kay be surprised at your answers

[chuckgp]

I know you hate the for anyone to quote the bible but there is a verse that says the following "Rebellion is lliken to witchcraft in the eyes of the Lord".

 

 

One of the verses used as justification for the slaughter of countless millions of pagans, heathens, and witches,

 

no doubt.

 

Nice verse.

Sounds like pure ignorant hatred to me.

 

You better keep on his good side.

Chuck

[gdwill2u]

Originally posted by gdwill2u Mind if I ask you how old you are? You sound like a rebelious teenager looking for his identity. The first rule in teenager angst is to throw off all authority and to "declare" your self free. All that is fine and part of growing up, but when these attitudes persue you into adulthood or when they prevent you from honest inquiry into spiritual matters then, this rebellion can prove to be both fatal spiritually and delusional. I know you hate the for anyone to quote the bible but there is a verse that says the following "Rebellion is lliken to witchcraft in the eyes of the Lord". Try and remember a lot of christians, including myself, did not grow up christian.....we started out as skeptics but through God's grace began to honestly search for the truth about God. This search for me started out as an attempt or a bias that I thought would lead me to hardcore agnosticism. The result of my honest (I cannot stress that word enough) search was my conversion. Good luck my friend, take out the bible and your history books and prove to yourself that agnosticiam and atheism is the only logical way to go. You kay be surprised at your answers

For those who don't know witchcraft in the bible refers to an age old practice of trying to imitate God's miracles throught the use of incantataions, hexes and spells, it is condemned in the bible as being satanic.

Rebellion is also a spiritual malady that prevents the sufferer from honest addressing the truth about God. It is not a thought out logical mindset, it is an emotional and mostly irrational reaction to anything Holy. The bible clearly teaches that this attitude is also the result of satanic influence.

Be careful folks, many of you are no where as free as you think you are. You are being used by the enemy of your soul to keep you from salvation, and to spread more of his (the devil's) garbage to the harm of others.

I challenge any agnostic or atheist (talk about irrational, claiming to prove the non existance of God), to take a scientific and skeptical journey into the history of christianity and the biblical issue of prophesy.

BTW - a little knowledge of the science of probability will help you on your quest. The chance of all of the fulfilled prohecies in the bible happening by chance over a period of a thousand years and thirty different authors is off the charts.

One lie that is used by every agnostic I have ever heard is that christianity is a non rational religion based on the acceptance of brain washing. That is just a lie. Christianity is deeply rooted in logic and objective fact. Jesus lived, Jesus died at calvary, Jesus was buried, three days later Jesus rose from the dead. There were over 300 eye witnesses to this. Twelve men (the desciples) suffered torture and death to proclaim these FACTS. They were offered their freedom if they renounced their claims of Christ's resurrection but they were faithful to what they SAW until the end.

Facts like these would free or convict any one in a court of law, and they are facts not conjecture or mysteries.....The mystery of faith is how can a Holy God become man and then die in our place so that we can be reconciled to Him for eternity.

I like to say that science and honest inquiry lead me to the shores of faith and grace took me to salvation. Stop claiming that christianity is some sort of esoteric or non-rational belief system, that my friend is just not true. Dispute the facts all you want but stop muddying the waters so others cannot see what is obvious to those of us who are truly free to think and choose.

[gdwill2u]

Originally posted by chuckgp One of the verses used as justification for the slaughter of countless millions of pagans, heathens, and witches, no doubt. Nice verse. Sounds like pure ignorant hatred to me. You better keep on his good side. Chuck

 

 

Wow, don;t know where you got that conclusion from...do I sense a slight bias?????

 

BTW - if you struggle with believing in God or His action in our world then it would be even harder for you to believe in satan the enemy of your soul.

 

His only sin was pride and rebellion. God gave the angels free will, and this angle choose to be separate from God and to dwell in hisw own self rightious pride (self love) - sound familiar?

[chuckgp]

Originally posted by gdwill2u Wow, don;t know where you got that conclusion from...do I sense a slight bias????? BTW - if you struggle with believing in God or His action in our world then it would be even harder for you to believe in satan the enemy of your soul. His only sin was pride and rebellion. God gave the angels free will, and this angle choose to be separate from God and to dwell in hisw own self rightious pride (self love) - sound familiar?

 

 

{censored} you, ignorant literalist.

 

I struggle to believe that literalists are actually that stupid.

 

You make that struggle just a bit easier.

 

Thank you,

 

Chuck

[chuckgp]

I will admit though,

That's pretty {censored}ing scary.

[tlp123]

Originally posted by LordOVchaoS I support the teachings of Jesus and I do fully believe in God yet... I don't believe in living like sheep, I don't need a church to tell me what to do, I can worship whatever the {censored} I want at home and then go out and have fun. God wants you to have fun, not be a bible thumping wierdo.

 

 

There you have it. Said simply and to the point. I'm with you bro. But alot of people will never lighten the {censored} up on all this bull{censored}.