I believe and support a lot of the teachings of Jesus

[chuckgp]

Originally posted by STEEL KAGE So Chuck, For Clarification( not for flame) Your main beef with Christianity are the literalists, correct? Or is it Christianity as a whole? the crusades, the spanish inquisition are just a few of the atrocities done in the name of God and I fully agree that acts of that nature are deplorable and against, what I percieve, Gods Will. But that was man, not God and I have a serious problem with just about anything mankind gets its hands on Im also curious as to what your total take on the Bible is. I used to go to Bible Study when I was alot younger and bailed because the people were just too damn whacky(as well as literal). My take is that there is alot of good stuff in there that is applicable to people of all creeds as well as things that I just refuse to follow. My beliefs and faith are firmed up by things that I have experienced in life, not through a book( even though some of it is referenced in The Bible) Kage

1st paragraph: All of that stuff is due to literalism.
Yes. Literalists are in other faiths too.

2nd: The Bible is fine, it's that thing you said...mankind getting its hands on it was where the problems started.

Once it was printed out, we lost the original ideas, I guess.
Couldn't thump anything before that!

Plus we can realize all the good things within us, without guide books, IMHO.

Some of the OT agrees with other historical sources I have studied, with the obvious Jewish 'bias' against the rest of the evil world.

I literally believe some of it is true, accurate, whatever.

SHOCK AND AWE.

Chuck

[STEEL KAGE]

Originally posted by chuckgp 1st paragraph: All of that stuff is due to literalism. Yes. Literalists are in other faiths too. 2nd: The Bible is fine, it's that thing you said...mankind getting its hands on it was where the problems started. Once it was printed out, we lost the original ideas, I guess. Couldn't thump anything before that! Plus we can realize all the good things within us, without guide books, IMHO. Some of the OT agrees with other historical sources I have studied, with the obvious Jewish 'bias' against the rest of the evil world. I literally believe some of it is true, accurate, whatever. SHOCK AND AWE. Chuck

Cool bro thanks...

[gdb53]

Originally posted by STEEL KAGE the short version; Jesus was the Son Of God, who died for our sins, preached love, tolerance and understanding. As far as his relevance, Im not quite sure what the best answer is so I will say that he was Gods rep in human form Kage

 

 

Right... nicely put.

 

Personally, I think the good fruits of true biblical christianity are too powerful to ignore- I'm not talking about those who take verses literally and out of context for their own ends, or those corrupted by power.

 

Also, which parts of the bible do you refuse to follow?

[STEEL KAGE]

Originally posted by gdb53 Right... nicely put. Personally, I think the good fruits of true biblical christianity are too powerful to ignore- I'm not talking about those who take verses literally and out of context for their own ends, or those corrupted by power. Also, which parts of the bible do you refuse to follow?

 

 

Wow!! Theres really too much to go into. I have a problem with Gods word being written by man. Basically, I follow the parts that make sense and throw out the parts that dont. The Book, For better or Worse, Divinly inspired( what is that really supposed to mean?) or whatever, was written by man and that is more that enogh reason for me to question it

 

Kage

 

 

[gdb53]

OK folks, I'm off- going for a run. Might see you all later.

[gdb53]

Originally posted by STEEL KAGE Wow!! Theres really too much to go into. I have a problem with Gods word being written by man. Basically, I follow the parts that make sense and throw out the parts that dont. The Book, For better or Worse, Divinly inspired( what is that really supposed to mean?) or whatever, was written by man and that is more that enogh reason for me to question it Kage

 

 

 

Ok, fair enough. Would love to discuss further... but physical activity calls!

[chuckgp]

Originally posted by STEEL KAGE Wow!! Theres really too much to go into. I have a problem with Gods word being written by man. Basically, I follow the parts that make sense and throw out the parts that dont. The Book, For better or Worse, Divinly inspired( what is that really supposed to mean?) or whatever, was written by man and that is more that enogh reason for me to question it Kage

Help me now, Kage.

You have a problem with it being written by man, but you believe in the part about Jesus as the Son of God, right?



Chuck

[STEEL KAGE]

Originally posted by chuckgp Help me now, Kage. You have a problem with it being written by man, but you believe in the part about Jesus as the Son of God, right? Chuck

AS I told you earlier Bro, there are parts that make sense and others that dont. In addition, There are things that I have experienced in everyday life that firm up my beliefs for me, YMMV, greatly of course;)

[chuckgp]

Obligato, Kage.

[STEEL KAGE]

Originally posted by chuckgp Obligato, Kage.

Werd to Big Bird, Chuck!!

[GuitarBleed]

Originally posted by guitarman967 I'm somewhat disenchanted with any form of organized religon. I just don't get it. There is nothing I hate more than people telling me how to live my life from what they believe in their Religon. They become fanactics for the most part. It always blows my mind how these people hate gays so much and won't let them get married as if they believe god's love's everyone except for the people who's life styles they don't agree with. I say let them suffer getting married just like the rest of us. END OF RANT:o

 

 

Is not for telling you how you have to live, its just about telling you that everything bad you do will turn to you later and everything good you do will turn to you too....

 

So We are not "guitars " we all have a soul , we dont came from nothing , we do are material flesh but someone gave us LIFE and Soul and its our mission to find out what we have to do here in the world , for me , i believe in God im catholic and i dont care about people who doesnt believe in God but for the most part ..its all about this men...

 

"For those who want to see but they cant,they will have their reward, and for those who do CAN see but they dont want to...Im sorry"

[Dr Wanker]

Originally posted by gdwill2u BTW - The bible is not the only reference historically about the life, death and ressurection of Jesus, and if you want to glibly discount the eyewitness testimony of twelve men, living in different countries and separated from each other (with the exception of the few who lived in Jerusulem), men who were tortured and put to death for not changing their story, well be my guest, but I think ignoring the facts in this case is a little ignorant. Especially with so much at stake. Oh I could go on, but you know what....pearls before swine.

 

 

And who are these guys, and where besides the Bible have they written anything down that you can prove was written by them or even during their lifetime? 12 huh? That's not even a good Bigfoot sighting or UFO experiance.

And by the way, many people die for a cause, that doesn't mean it's real, or they're right. 9/11 case in point.

[draelyc]

Originally posted by gdb53 and since I don't buy this ridiculous 'whats truth for you isn't truth for me' business, . . .

Why not? If ten people can all be eye-witnesses to a car accident, and then give the police ten *different* accounts of what happened, why is it so hard to imagine that each incarnate soul would have at least a *slightly* different point of view regarding what Truth actually "looks like"?

Doesn't mean there's no such thing as Absolute Truth; it just means that we all see It from a slightly different angle, and therefore only see one facet of it. The only way to grasp the Entire Truth is to (as Chuck pointed out) transcend the limitations of individual, mortal consciousness and become One with the All. That may sound hokey, but why do you think Jesus was so *adamant* that we *love* each other and include *everyone* (even filthy Samaritans, for example) in our circle?

Read the Gospels with this concept in mind and it becomes pretty blatant, the way the Christ consistently and fervently calls us all to move beyond the self-imposed limitations that (we falsely believe) separate us from each other. This is why He blasts the "doctors of the Law" who twist God's laws to *exclude* those of whom they don't approve, etc.

I respectfully suggest this point of view to you as one Christian to another -- no offense is intended, 'kay?

[draelyc]

Originally posted by gdwill2u I would love to compare the atrocites and deaths attributable to evil men using the christian faith to justify their evil deeds with those same evil deeds done by agnostics and athiests. Let's start a little recent (last 100 years) roll call. Hitler stalin Pol Pot Ho Chi Ming For all my christians brothers on this forum, remember a lot of these posters are into death metal and strongly influenced by satanic forces. It is considered "cool" and brave to laugh in the face of eternal peril....seems like the ultimate dare. Hopefully most of these childish "rebels" will grow up and at the very least become sane enough to truly investigate real christianity and refrain from making comments about a subject that they only know through there own limited and biased propaganda. Quite frankly almost all, and i would say all but I want to leave a little room for the exception, of the people who are angry at christians and God and the church are folks engaging in activites that they know are sinful. Jesus preached about the condition of our hearts, not our intellects. We love our sins and our addictions, and we know that a Holy God will deal with us if we want to come close to Him. The funny thing is, this is nothing more than another satanic lie, we do not get our lives in order and then go to God, that won't work, we go to him just as we are and ask Him to help us change. These changes are swift in some, and slower in others, and they are one more level of proof of the validity of our faith. We do change, and the change is always for the better. I was an alcoholic, a drug addict, a thief, a liar and I had no respect for God, my country, my parents, or the law. I was rebellious and bitter and full of frustration, and fear. I still suffer from all of this (except the addictions) because I am human, but not to the same degree and not without God's aid. BTW - The bible is not the only reference historically about the life, death and ressurection of Jesus, and if you want to glibly discount the eyewitness testimony of twelve men, living in different countries and separated from each other (with the exception of the few who lived in Jerusulem), men who were tortured and put to death for not changing their story, well be my guest, but I think ignoring the facts in this case is a little ignorant. Especially with so much at stake. Oh I could go on, but you know what....pearls before swine.

LOL~ how 'bout a self-righteous swine farting out stinking, self-proclaimed "pearls"

Hitler was most definitely NOT agnostic or atheist. He truly believed he was "Christian" and advancing the "true" Christian cause. Look it up, yo.

Of course, if you're so galactically ignorant as to label a form of music as "satanic forces," then you are too mentally and spiritually embryonic to be taken seriously by grown folks anyway.

Enjoy the hellfire tortures of your self-created and self-perpetuating medieval superstition-tortures. I, for one, thank God that such self-flagellation has no place in the Wisdom or teachings brought to us by Christ Jesus.

[draelyc]

Originally posted by chuckgp You answer your own question: the nature of truth is that it is true for all. Of course it can come in many different guises, but it's still the same truth. See- Huxley, Joseph Campbell for more, if you dare. We both assume too much. I think everone is deluded, I'm Gnostic. You don't know what I believe. Or what I seem to think. But you're going on what I've posted, so I'm not communicating very well. And: When the {censored}ing hell have I ever said that my beliefs are the only truth???? This assumtion has made an ass out of you, but not me, this time. No, I disagree. You can experience it now, no need to die. You can't grasp it, but experience it. 2 different things again. Born again?? Seems like you might need to die to do that? You have a LOT of faith in physical death. Or you seem to think that. I prefer to experience the Transcendent often, while I'm still alive. I will not wait on death for some revelation that is attainable now. Dead or alive, its the same experience. Chuck

 

 

Well, to be honest Chuck, one does have to die to experience the full transcendent communion with the Divine -- but we're talking the shamanistic, mystical death of self, in order that awareness of True Self may be born in one's consciousness. Early Christians were asked "Are you ready to die with Christ?" before they were Baptised and Initiated into the Mysteries of the Faith.

[draelyc]

Originally posted by gdwill2u You are trying to keep things civil with folks who call christians lying bastardsm or ignorant literlist? BTW - the pearls before swine is a biblical injuntion about teaching the closed minded about anything spiritual. It is right out of the mouth of Jesus, he Said "do not lay down your pearls before swine"...it was a parable, it did not mean he was calling anyone a pig. I meant it in the same way. How about giving someone the benefit of the doubt.

 

 

Actually, it's a Biblical injunction against teaching the Gnosis, the knowledge of the Mysteries, to those whose minds and souls are not yet prepared -- in other words, to materialistic, literalistic, exclusivistic, megalomaniacal, "me right, everyone else go to hell" type "believers." Knowledge is power, and especially so in terms of spiritual knowledge. Giving such knowledge to the spiritually infantile is like giving a baby a high-powered circular saw to play with . . . And the history of the institutional church illustrates exactly how literally such "tools" can be used to maim, kill, and destroy human life.

[chuckgp]

draelyc:
Have you read this incredible book??

The Radiance of Being: Complexity, Chaos and the Evolution of Consciousness
-Allan Combs

Holy {censored}!!

[draelyc]

Originally posted by chuckgp draelyc: Have you read this incredible book?? The Radiance of Being: Complexity, Chaos and the Evolution of Consciousness -Allan Combs Holy {censored}!!

 

 

No, but it sounds awesome! What's the basic gist?

[gdwill2u]

Originally posted by gdb53 Here we have a simple lesson in cause and effect: This: Causes this: Jesus said to judge things by their fruits, gdwill, and the fruits of your post were that someone got pissed off. Therefore, I don't think you should have posted. BTW, I am familiar with the teachings of Jesus- I knew the verse you were referring to.

 

 

Come on pal, you are being disingenuous here. The reaping and sowing has to do with sin not the normal persecution that comes with proclaiming the gospel or any christian truth.

 

I've had my dose of political and religious threads for awhile, see ya;)

[chuckgp]

Originally posted by draelyc No, but it sounds awesome! What's the basic gist?

 

 

Ummm...evolution of consciouness...I guess.

 

More people I've never heard of than any book ever.

Modern philosophy.

 

Like a Campbell lecture....series of lectures.

 

Makin' me feel stupid. I like books like that.

 

Chuck

[draelyc]

Originally posted by gdwill2u I've had my dose of political and religious threads for awhile, see ya;)

When is this guy EVER gonna keep his word on this point?

[draelyc]

Originally posted by chuckgp Ummm...evolution of consciouness...I guess. More people I've never heard of than any book ever. Modern philosophy. Like a Campbell lecture....series of lectures. Makin' me feel stupid. I like books like that. Chuck

Some of those turn-of-the-century Theosophy books do that to me, too.

[chuckgp]

Originally posted by draelyc When is this guy EVER gonna keep his word on this point?

Quite literally, after the Rapture:D

[gdb53]

Originally posted by draelyc Why not? If ten people can all be eye-witnesses to a car accident, and then give the police ten *different* accounts of what happened, why is it so hard to imagine that each incarnate soul would have at least a *slightly* different point of view regarding what Truth actually "looks like"? Doesn't mean there's no such thing as Absolute Truth; it just means that we all see It from a slightly different angle, and therefore only see one facet of it. The only way to grasp the Entire Truth is to (as Chuck pointed out) transcend the limitations of individual, mortal consciousness and become One with the All. That may sound hokey, but why do you think Jesus was so *adamant* that we *love* each other and include *everyone* (even filthy Samaritans, for example) in our circle? Read the Gospels with this concept in mind and it becomes pretty blatant, the way the Christ consistently and fervently calls us all to move beyond the self-imposed limitations that (we falsely believe) separate us from each other. This is why He blasts the "doctors of the Law" who twist God's laws to *exclude* those of whom they don't approve, etc. I respectfully suggest this point of view to you as one Christian to another -- no offense is intended, 'kay?

Chris, I think your car accident example backs up my position- I do accept that different people see things in different ways. That's why I'm not willing to pass judgement on the beliefs of another- that is God's job.

I think Jesus was so adamant we love each other because it is God's nature to love all people- you'd want your kids to get along wouldn't you?
I'd never thought of it as anything more than that, so you raise an interesting point.

What's your take on Jesus saying 'I am the way the truth and the life, noone comes to the father but through me'?

[gdb53]

Originally posted by draelyc ... Doesn't mean there's no such thing as Absolute Truth; it just means that we all see It from a slightly different angle, and therefore only see one facet of it. The only way to grasp the Entire Truth is to (as Chuck pointed out) transcend the limitations of individual, mortal consciousness and become One with the All. That may sound hokey...

 

 

 

Just re-read your post, and to be honest, yes it does sound a little hokey.... but that doesn't put me off!

 

My position is this though- we can never transcend our limitations while we're in this earthly body. We're just too limited, in understanding, in moral fortitute, in wisdom, etc. I don't believe we can change without undergoing a serious metamorphis, beyond what is possible on earth.