OT: Do you believe modern humans descended from a lower life form?(poll)

[blargh]

Originally posted by Echoes what? why should I care?....survival of the fittest man! right! if there is no God, we are 'descended' from apes or whatever...mankind is participating in a meaningless existence, 'heritage' means nothing...'legacy' means nothing...at the beginning and end of each day the only thing that matters is CARNAL PLEASURE!!! and whatever 'floats my boat' is what I'm gonna do!!! porn? SURE! kiddie porn? why NOT!!! rape? sounds like fun!....who cares? at the end of the day there is NO ACCOUNTABILITY! wooo--hooo....so, therefore, I can conclude: people that 'love' are FOOLS! 'HOPE' is for dreamers weaklings and lame brains... Mercy is for those that don't think they can 'win' the fight... virtue is for people that aren't cleaver enough to 'get over' without negotiation... HE WHO DIES WITH THE MOST TOYS WINS!!!!!!!! WOO-HOO!!!

I think I'm giving up on this thread entirely, it just hit the critical mass of idiocy. It's pretty clear that rational debate without posting nonsense and strawman arguments is not something you're capable of. Bye, fella

[Echoes]

Originally posted by blargh I think I'm giving up on this thread entirely, it just hit the critical mass of idiocy. It's pretty clear that rational debate without posting nonsense and strawman arguments is not something you're capable of. Bye, fella

bye-bye

[Chaotic]

Originally posted by Echoes ignorance?....have you read the Constitution or the Bill Of Rights?...do you recognize the CHRISTIAN BIBLE TERMS littered throughout the documents????...maybe read the teminology on our currency??? our nation, whether you want to believe it or not IS FOUNDED ON CHRISTIAN PRINCIPLE!.... I was just showing YOU what you get when you 'found' governments on DARWINIAN EVOLUTION PRINCIPLES... man...put a Priest collar on a man and people will believe HE represents GOD...put a white lab coat on a man and John Q Public will believe HE represents TRUTH and FACT.... I'll 'think' for myself thank you!

That isn't correct. I've read most of the Federalist papers and the framers of the Constitution were very specific about freedom of religion and the lack of state sponsored religion.

"In God We Trust" was placed on money long after the Constitution and Bill of Rights were created and I don't believe the word "God" even appears in those two documents.

[starsnuffer]

Humanity evolved from lower lifeforms, created religeon, and then devolved into ecopredators out to destroy Terra.

-W

[telephant]

Originally posted by Chaotic That isn't correct. I've read most of the Federalist papers and the framers of the Constitution were very specific about freedom of religion and the lack of state sponsored religion. "In God We Trust" was placed on money long after the Constitution and Bill of Rights were created and I don't believe the word "God" even appears in those two documents.

 

 

Have you ever read in any Jefferson? He was definitely not a Christian. In fact werent most of them deists?

[CliffC8488]

Originally posted by Echoes ignorance?....have you read the Constitution or the Bill Of Rights?...do you recognize the CHRISTIAN BIBLE TERMS littered throughout the documents????...maybe read the teminology on our currency??? our nation, whether you want to believe it or not IS FOUNDED ON CHRISTIAN PRINCIPLE!.... I was just showing YOU what you get when you 'found' governments on DARWINIAN EVOLUTION PRINCIPLES... man...put a Priest collar on a man and people will believe HE represents GOD...put a white lab coat on a man and John Q Public will believe HE represents TRUTH and FACT.... I'll 'think' for myself thank you!

Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; ...

CC

[thefyn]

I think we should donate megachimp4328 to science so we can study lower life forms.

Of course we will have to recreate his habitat. His bedroom with a PC (full of guitar and porn links)

They can agitate the chimp and watch his responses.

Such as:

"Dude, your gay" (note the spelling)

"Dude sftu"

And "Rolleyes icon"

Another good idea would to put something completely alien in his environment. Something he has never interacted with before.

A girl perhaps?

[Echoes]

Originally posted by telephant Have you ever read in any Jefferson? He was definitely not a Christian. In fact werent most of them deists?

 

 

Deists (basically) believe in God, they just believe He is 'absent' from our day to day affairs...

[Echoes]

Originally posted by CliffC8488 Amendment I Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; ... CC

 

 

I am aware of what the 1st Amendment reads...

 

do you know what it means? and why they put it there?

[telephant]

Originally posted by Echoes Deists (basically) believe in God, they just believe He is 'absent' from our day to day affairs...

 

 

 

They dont adhere to Christian doctrine either.

[Echoes]

Originally posted by Chaotic That isn't correct. I've read most of the Federalist papers and the framers of the Constitution were very specific about freedom of religion and the lack of state sponsored religion. "In God We Trust" was placed on money long after the Constitution and Bill of Rights were created and I don't believe the word "God" even appears in those two documents.

 

 

Do you know where the 'origin' of the words 'liberty' and 'freedom' come from?...and the definition poured into them by our 'framers'?

 

If you really want to believe that our nation was founded by a bunch of 'secular humanists' that's your prerogative:thu:

 

on the other hand, I am NOT suggesting that our founding fathers were staunch Christians either....

 

they did, however base our nation's LAWS and PRINCIPLES on Biblical Christian principles and acknowledged as much (don't make me post the stack of quotes from our founding father's in support of a STRONG CHRISTIAN nation...as I have done it else where...and can't type the 4-5 solid pages of em..)

[Echoes]

Originally posted by telephant They dont adhere to Christian doctrine either.

 

 

True, but they acknowledged and framed our nation on Biblical principles...go figure that one out:confused:

[telephant]

Some cool Jefferson quotes:

Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.

-Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782

Question with boldness even the existence of a god; because if there be one he must approve of the homage of reason more than that of blindfolded fear.

-Thomas Jefferson, Letter to Peter Carr, August 10, 1787

Where the preamble declares, that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed by inserting "Jesus Christ," so that it would read "A departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion;" the insertion was rejected by the great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mohammedan, the Hindoo and Infidel of every denomination.

-Thomas Jefferson, Autobiography, in reference to the Virginia Act for Religious Freedom

[Chaotic]

Originally posted by Echoes Do you know where the 'origin' of the words 'liberty' and 'freedom' come from?...and the definition poured into them by our 'framers'? If you really want to believe that our nation was founded by a bunch of 'secular humanists' that's your prerogative:thu: on the other hand, I am NOT suggesting that our founding fathers were staunch Christians either.... they did, however base our nation's LAWS and PRINCIPLES on Biblical Christian principles and acknowledged as much (don't make me post the stack of quotes from our founding father's in support of a STRONG CHRISTIAN nation...as I have done it else where...and can't type the 4-5 solid pages of em..)

 

 

Liberty

The Latin words "Liber," "Libera," and "Liberum" -- with a Long I -- came from the root meaning, "to pour." From this, we get the word "Liberty" (hence pronounced with a short I), from the freedom we feel when we get drunk. See Library (unrelated).

 

Freedom

This comes from German (literal, modern-day translation, "Freiheit"), but is actually closer in derivation to the German word "Friede", which means "peace" and is a word of pre-Christian, Germanic origin (originally "Frith"). The archaic term was used to signify the period following the termination of a bloodfeud between two Germanic clans when the softer, feminine qualities of the god "Freda" or "Frita" held sway. To achieve such a peace, some consideration had to given up on the part of the clan whose member had committed the most recent wrong against another clan, such as a certain quantity of meat or animal hides. What was given up was called "Bot" (delivered good) or "Botschaft" (literally delivered shank (of meat), but currently is the modern German word for "message"). It is interesting to note that this is from where we get the English term "boat" (Apparently, as time went on, the term was used less to describe what was being delivered and more to describe the deliverer or means of delivery--Hence, the modern German words "Bote" (messenger) and "Boot" (boat--which can be visualized as a means of delivering something or someone)).

 

Source:

 

http://www.westegg.com/etymology/

["sasquatch"]

IMHO, people who do not see both parts play are each equally wrong as the other.

The person who believe we are here by chance and there is no God is no different than the literalist, in terms of bible interpretation, who accepts no other reason other than a literal interpretation.

Both theories are right, HOWEVER, both people are wrong. If you line up the timeline of evolution and line up the timeline of creation as stated in the bible, you will find they are pretty much identical. One is full of scientific details, such as DNA, proteins and cellular functions and processes and the period of time these events took place. The other is a big picture revelation explained to man thousands of years ago, before a concept of astronimically large numbers and complicated process that come together to create life could even be contemplated.

Do you think man and dinosaurs roamed the earth together? Do you think we are here by chance, even considering the mathematical chances are infinitely stacked against us?

I scoff at both of you people b/c, imho, you are too ignorant to see the other side.

[Echoes]

Originally posted by telephant Some cool Jefferson quotes: Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity. -Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782 Question with boldness even the existence of a god; because if there be one he must approve of the homage of reason more than that of blindfolded fear. -Thomas Jefferson, Letter to Peter Carr, August 10, 1787 Where the preamble declares, that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed by inserting "Jesus Christ," so that it would read "A departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion;" the insertion was rejected by the great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mohammedan, the Hindoo and Infidel of every denomination. -Thomas Jefferson, Autobiography, in reference to the Virginia Act for Religious Freedom

 

 

Thomas Jefferson was all over the map...I have a few quotes, that I think I already posted here, that state his support of Christianity and the Bible...I do recognize that the man is not a decent representation of Christianity and never suggested that he was...

[Echoes]

Originally posted by Chaotic Liberty The Latin words "Liber," "Libera," and "Liberum" -- with a Long I -- came from the root meaning, "to pour." From this, we get the word "Liberty" (hence pronounced with a short I), from the freedom we feel when we get drunk. See Library (unrelated). Freedom This comes from German (literal, modern-day translation, "Freiheit"), but is actually closer in derivation to the German word "Friede", which means "peace" and is a word of pre-Christian, Germanic origin (originally "Frith"). The archaic term was used to signify the period following the termination of a bloodfeud between two Germanic clans when the softer, feminine qualities of the god "Freda" or "Frita" held sway. To achieve such a peace, some consideration had to given up on the part of the clan whose member had committed the most recent wrong against another clan, such as a certain quantity of meat or animal hides. What was given up was called "Bot" (delivered good) or "Botschaft" (literally delivered shank (of meat), but currently is the modern German word for "message"). It is interesting to note that this is from where we get the English term "boat" (Apparently, as time went on, the term was used less to describe what was being delivered and more to describe the deliverer or means of delivery--Hence, the modern German words "Bote" (messenger) and "Boot" (boat--which can be visualized as a means of delivering something or someone)).

AH! so our Founding Fathers and 'colonial framers' wanted us to be Latin and German!

Thanks for clearing that up!

(standard HCAF operating procedure: wait till someone makes a claim or a statement...then, without understanding what the statement means or the context there-in, run out to the web and crank-up the 'search engine' to trample the statement...NOTE: while performing your 'search' be sure to ignore all information pertaining to the original 'intent' of the statement:thu: )

[Chaotic]

Originally posted by Echoes AH! so our Founding Fathers and 'colonial framers' wanted us to be Latin and German! Thanks for clearing that up! (standard HCAF operating procedure: wait till someone makes a claim or a statement...then, without understanding what the statement means or the context there-in, run out to the web and crank-up the 'search engine' to trample the statement...NOTE: while performing your 'search' be sure to ignore all information pertaining to the original 'intent' of the statement:thu: )

You asked if I knew about the origins of the words "liberty" and "freedom". I answered you, and I'm not sure how the answer strengthens your proposition that the United States was founded on Christian principles.

Your claims about the Constitution, the Bill of Rights and US currency were all incorrect.

[Echoes]

Originally posted by Chaotic You asked if I knew about the origins of the words "liberty" and "freedom". I answered you, and I'm not sure how the answer strengthens your proposition that the United States was founded on Christian principles. Your claims about the Constitution, the Bill of Rights and US currency were all incorrect.

Christian 'principles'...and 'terminology' it's there...pretty easy tackling straw men...you sure are a tough guy!

then again...your moniker is chaotic....what a hint!

[Chaotic]

Originally posted by Echoes Christian 'principles'...and 'terminology' it's there...pretty easy tackling straw men...you sure are a tough guy! then again...your moniker is chaotic....what a hint!

You claimed US currency, the Bill of Rights and the Constitution supported Christian principles and were full of Christian terminology. The words "God" and "bible" are nowhere to be found. "Liberty" and "freedom" are by no stretch of the mind "Christian terminology" and the fact that there is an amendment about freedom of religion really weakens your point.

Do you have anything to back up that claim that isn't completely and utterly vague?

[telephant]

Originally posted by Echoes Thomas Jefferson was all over the map...I have a few quotes, that I think I already posted here, that state his support of Christianity and the Bible...I do recognize that the man is not a decent representation of Christianity and never suggested that he was...

I know. Im just pointing out that he was a bad ass in his day.

[17 Tubes]

Originally posted by telephant I know. Im just pointing out that he was a bad ass in his day.

He was indeed a bad ass!



I like this one you quoted:

"Question with boldness even the existence of a god; because if there be one he must approve of the homage of reason more than that of blindfolded fear."

I never knew he said that....but I say something simlilar ALL the time. To the effect that God gave me a brain, to think and do for myself. I think he'd rather see me struggle with the tough questions thanjust pass it off with blind faith.


Don't deny it . People ignore the really tough questions to preserve their precepted faith.

"it's in God's hands"

"No one can know the ways of God". (which I think is true, BTW! But it won't stop me from trying!)

[starsnuffer]

I really don't think the intent of the founding fathers matters at all, religeous or otherwise.

I think it was Winston Churchill who said something like "Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others that have been tried".

I tend to agree with him, although I'm not so old and beaten that I think we should simply stop trying.

In my opinion, Democracy was a really great experiment, however, it is an experiment that failed. Its failure is directly related to the title of this thread.

The problem with Democracy is that, at its core, it is the rule by the majority of the populace (lets forget a moment how the system really works regarding special interests, or the fact that the US is a republic, not a democracy for the sake of this conversation).

So, here we have a system where the majority rules. We also have a culture where humanity is devolving and the average citizen is becoming more and more stupid, lazy, passive, and stupid. This means that we have a system where stupidity rules.

Do you really want to live in a world ruled by the whims of the ignorant and stupid?

Stupid people breed faster then intelligent people. This means that the stupid majority is only going to overwhelm the educated minority more and more into the coming years and decades. In short, this democratic system is only going to degrade our quality of life as humanity continues to devolve.

It's time for change. It's time for revolution. It's time to take down the current regime of the ignorant and the stupid. It's time to inact the mandatory ball-sack cutting of the stupid majority to ensure that they do not breed. It is time to restore intellect, education, and intelligence to this country.

Its a sad fact that the majority of Americans will vote for whoever promises to let them continue their baseless existance. So long as they can drive their SUV's to the mall to buy their clothes at the GAP whilst listening and watching whatever Clearchannel and Viacom tell them they should listen to or watch, then Americans will continue to be baseless, ignorant cattle.

The system we have now is a failed experiment, it's time for something that has not yet been tried. It's time to disallow politicians from holding public office. It's time to ban lawyers from making laws. The conservative right is too ignorant to see past their rhetoric that they have been brainwashed with. The liberal left is too passive to do anything but talk and complain.

Its time for change.

Revolt or die whining.

-W

[Echoes]

Originally posted by Chaotic You claimed US currency, the Bill of Rights and the Constitution supported Christian principles and were full of Christian terminology. The words "God" and "bible" are nowhere to be found. "Liberty" and "freedom" are by no stretch of the mind "Christian terminology" and the fact that there is an amendment about freedom of religion really weakens your point. Do you have anything to back up that claim that isn't completely and utterly vague?

The University of Houston Political Science dept. completed research into the sources our Founding Fathers used most frequently in forming our present system of government. From the pool of nearly 15,000 documents from that period, the researchers selected 3,154 documents considered most significant to the Founding Fathers. After 10 years of investigation, the researchers determined that the Founding Fathers quoted most heavily from 3 intellectuals: Montesquieu, Blackstone, and Locke.
However, the most interesting conclusion from the research was that the Founding Fathers were even more dependent upon the Bible than they were dependent upon these 3 men. The Bible was quoted 4 times more often than Montesquieu, and 16 times more often than Blackstone or Locke. 94% of the quotes of the Founding Fathers were based on the Bible: 34% were direct quotes from Scripture and the remaining 60% were taken from quotes where they had used the Bible to arrive at their conclusions. The book quoted most often by the Founding Fathers was Deuteronomy. So explicit was the relationship between law and religion, that Charles Finney (the 'Billy Graham' of the 1800's) came to faith in Jesus Christ simply by reading Blackstone's "Commentaries On Law", because each time Blackstone cited a principle of law, he gave chapter and verse to the Biblical passage which contained the foundation of the principle...

Source for the 3 Branches of Government: Isaiah 33:22...
"For The Lord is our Judge, the Lord is our lawgiver, the Lord is our King; He will save us."

Tax exemption for churches: Ezra 7:24...
"Also we certify you, that touching any of the priests and Levites, singers, porters, Nethinims, or ministers of this house of God, it shall not be lawful to impose toll, tribune, or custom, upon them."

Liberty Bell inscription: Leviticus 25:10...
"And you shall hallow the fiftieth year, and proclaim liberty throughout the land to all it's inhabitants; it shall be a jubilee for you, when each of you shall return to his property and each of you shall return to his family."

The National Seal: Benjamin Franklin wanted Moses standing over the Red Sea with arms outstretched, with the motto: "Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God"...
Thomas Jefferson proposed: the children of Israel wandering in the wilderness, being led by a cloud by day, and a pillar of fire by night.

The first 'American Bible'..
was the result of George Washington asking Congress, by means of an "Emergency Act", to provide his troops with Bibles since they had run out of them. Immediately, 20,000 Bibles were imported and rushed to the troops. In order to prevent any future dependence upon foreign Bibles, on September 10, 1782, Congress commissioned Robert Aiken, publisher of "The Pennsylvania Magazine", to print what later became known as the "Bible of the Revolution", which has become today one of the world's rarest books.

want some more???

[Echoes]

Originally posted by starsnuffer Do you really want to live in a world ruled by the whims of the ignorant and stupid? Stupid people breed faster then intelligent people. This means that the stupid majority is only going to overwhelm the educated minority more and more into the coming years and decades.

I betcha anything that YOU count yourself as one of the "intelligent" people.

who's going to be THE JUDGE of who is stupid and who is intelligent in your 'model society'

I'm sure "the intelligent people" are going to be people that agree with YOU....

what if I'm JUDGE and I say you're stupid?

NEXT!!!!