Creation or Evolution? ( Serious question for Evolutionists....)

[17 Tubes]

Sorry for offending... and i did say that while forgetting where this stuff came from, that i thought your theory possible. There are eye-witness accounts of Jesus being seen living after his death. does that make him God... or does that make the witnesses tell the truth... maybe not. but his followers (disciples) really stuck to their beliefs to the point of dying horrific deaths when they had no reason to (if the didn't see something that changed their lives). What this all comes down to is this.... did carbon etc.. "just exist" before creation of all that we know now... or did God exist before creation? No one can answer that because we can't study "nothing". Both are stances of faith and both are assumptions.

All I am saying is that there are accounts and other histories aside form the self-serving "Bible" that say he wasn't (the "Son" of God).


Are you PURPOSELY ignoring my question for YOU?


If we find out where this "God" came from...we'll find the gosh dang carbon, 'kay?

ISn' t that a legit question?

Where did we come from?

"God".

Where did God come from?

[indespise]

Maybe God is trying to prove a point. He left us with a few guidelines, we chose not to follow them, now we are suffering for it. But, it will not go on forever. Soon, if the grand trial(AKA, tribulation: can we live without Gods laws) is not put to an end, all life on this planet would die. "In fact, unless those days were cut short, no flesh would be saved;" Mathhew 24:22 Is there anyone who really believes that the greed running this planet will save it? That would not be cost effective, LOL.

 

 

Funny how your God will go so far with his intervention that he'll bother smiting a single man for blowing his load on the ground in the OT, yet he does, and has done nothing for quite a while now, no matter how horrible the act, even those committed in his name.

[17 Tubes]

Might as well ask "where did God come from". We answer THAT question...like a good religious follower SHOULD, and we MAY find our carbon and hydrogen. The bible does imply that God does have a physical appearance... but I also believe that what seperates humans from other living beings is the spirit (which I believe has no physical properties). A spirit has to be made out of something though... right???

Okay...you answered, but it isn't much of an nanswer.

You ask for a clear cut explanation of carbon...


but only vague "spirit" stuff on God.




Obviously, gray....we still have MUCH to learn...that is one reason it is a "theory"...not only in our physical world, but our spritual one as well.

[EdgeOfDarkness]

Funny how your God will go so far with his intervention that he'll bother smiting a single man for blowing his load on the ground in the OT, yet he does, and has done nothing for quite a while now, no matter how horrible the act, even those committed in his name.

Maybe God has already Died.

[indespise]

Has it ever occured to you that you do not understand Christianity?

 

 

Having lived most of my life as a Christian, one who took it quite seriously, I'm confident in saying that I do understand. You simply choose to ignore anything outside of your tiny paradigm, one so small that you miss the point of much of your own Bible.

[rememberduane]

Maybe God has already Died.

Gott ist tot! Gott bleibt tot! Und wir haben ihn get

[indespise]

I challenge you, bring forth conclusive evidence... I'm waiting... don't have any? Allegation: "we evolved from another species" Evidence = ...... (waiting)

Again, it's quite ironic that you say this when the extent of your efforts to give evidence is "my book says so".

[17 Tubes]

Funny how your God will go so far with his intervention that he'll bother smiting a single man for blowing his load on the ground in the OT, yet he does, and has done nothing for quite a while now, no matter how horrible the act, even those committed in his name.

 

 

 

I've been working on a song...

 

 

"Where did God go?"

 

 

 

 

 

Many people say, you have to look JUST so. Or look when you're not looking. Or He is all around you.

 

Imean I don;t minnd being on my path to enlightenment...but THAT isn;t helping much. Vagueness of it all covers all the bases.

[EdgeOfDarkness]

Gott ist tot! Gott bleibt tot! Und wir haben ihn get

[grayeyes777]

All I am saying is that there are accounts and other histories aside form the self-serving "Bible" that say he wasn't (the "Son" of God).


Are you PURPOSELY ignoring my question for YOU?


If we find out where this "God" came from...we'll find the gosh dang carbon, 'kay?

ISn' t that a legit question?

Where did we come from?

"God".

Where did God come from?



Sorry, cause I thought I made my answer clear... and it is a very legit question.

Answer....
No one knows were God came from... just like no one knows where carbon etc, came from if there is no God. If God is real then we assume that he created carbon... If not then this whole experience of life was just a happenstance occourance. Both questions will only be answered by our own individual deaths.... one answer will matter and the other won't.

There are other accounts that depict jesus as not being "son of God". But why would those who had followed him still keep believing in him to the point of extreme and horrific death??? Nero skinned Christians alive and rolled them in salt. Peter was crucified upside down. John boiled in a vat of hot oil. Paul (who had a "spiritual" encounter with Jesus... and who was a known murderer of Christians himself) was imprisoned for years, only to be beheaded. Jesus, in my mind, was either who he claimed to be or he was a great deceiver.

[EpiPaul03]

Why? The language of science when referring to things we cannot empirically prove must include doubt -- and this is ANYTHING we can't experience empirically. This is the idea of "inductive" argument. There is the possibility that it is false. Most science is based on inductive theories. Induction has its flaws, but it's better than saying "well, {censored}, I dunno" and forming myths. They use what facts we have and form scientific theories (which are far from the common usage of the word) to try to explain things, while leaving room for improvement (thus not being dogmatic). I recommend you read up on the philosophy of science.

You, as a servant of the scientific community, fail to understand the perspective that I am coming from. I understand science, I have had 100's in all my math, science, calculus, classes that I have taken. But instead of absorbing information like a sponge, I like to take a step back, and focus on it.

For example, "The Elegant Universe" is a great book which inspired me to maybe become a physicist (still debating that or engineering). To understand how the universe operates through string theory (the long lost uniting factor of quatum mechanics and general relativity). It's great, it's interesting. But, I don't believe everything the scientific community believes.

I am constantly questioning things in mathematics and science, which helps me first and foremost to understand it better, and also draw some of my own conclusions. Theories are not meant to be taught and accepted, they are meant to be a base of building blocks. Simply being satisfied with evolution today and physics today is completely insane. Being satisfied with what we know is NOT what we want to do. The theory of evolution is mediocre to me and falling apart as we know it. I am not satisfied with it. It can be better, it can be put together better, it should be better.

Right now you're looking at what I said above and thinking how I can believe in intelligent design and God. I just do. There are some things science tries to explain that don't satisfy my need of understanding. No matter how many science books I read or how many courses in school I have, it doesn't take away my faith. It only makes me feel stronger that there HAS to be some sort of higher power, some sort of God. You may also be thinking how I can possibly believe in the Bible and not question it. It's just a little thing called faith. There have been hard times in my life where some things I can't explain come across me. A sudden feeling that I can't explain.

It's ok if you want to make fun of me or if you are making fun of me...It really doesn't bother me (although it can piss me off temporarily), but I thought I'd explain myself so you don't think I'm some ALL GOD believing, everything the church says is right kind of guy. I hate the church, I hate it's corruption, political and money hungriness. However, my own personal relationship with God is something that can't be explained and will never diminish.

[indespise]

produce *TRUTH* hotshot.... I'll wait along with rememberduanne's answer for our evolution from another species... you two self proclaimed genuises should be able to scrape something up... ....waiting...

Wanting to know what is true means to actively seek further understanding, it's a constantly moving process, the universe is infinitely complex. The more we break things down the more obvious it becomes that what we once regarded as simple is extrordinarily complex.. "Truth" which remains dormant for too long becomes a lie- the belief that maggots come from meat was accepted as a truth for a long time, would you still regard that as true?

[indespise]

why is Rosie O'Donnel fat?....

That was entirely irrelevant to his point, yet you still respond with this:

:confused:

[grayeyes777]

Okay...you answered, but it isn't much of an nanswer. You ask for a clear cut explanation of carbon... but only vague "spirit" stuff on God. Obviously, gray....we still have MUCH to learn...that is one reason it is a "theory"...not only in our physical world, but our spritual one as well.

 

 

 

That reply was more for entertainment then for a clear cut answer... clearer answer is in the above post. We do have so much to learn... and i'm very thankful for those who have taken on the responsibility of physical learning and innovation. The scary thing is that I don't think that our total learning(spiritual or physical) can come in this life... but our choices here might drastically affect our life after death (if there is such a thing).

[PintoMusic]

And let's not underestimate Neanderthal's aptitude for survival... they lasted over 100,000 years before they went extinct... we're just reaching 40,000 years. We still have a long way to go before we equal their performance.

But.... but... time only began 6000 years ago... WTF??



So extra-terrestrial activity that we witness millions of light-years away. That ain't really happening. They're just huge, slowly-animated murals that God put out in space for our amusement.

Oh... and the Milky Way... is made with real milk.

[rememberduane]

You, as a servant of the scientific community, fail to understand the perspective that I am coming from. I understand science, I have had 100's in all my math, science, calculus, classes that I have taken. But instead of absorbing information like a sponge, I like to take a step back, and focus on it. For example, "The Elegant Universe" is a great book which inspired me to maybe become a physicist (still debating that or engineering). To understand how the universe operates through string theory (the long lost uniting factor of quatum mechanics and general relativity). It's great, it's interesting. But, I don't believe everything the scientific community believes. I am constantly questioning things in mathematics and science, which helps me first and foremost to understand it better, and also draw some of my own conclusions. Theories are not meant to be taught and accepted, they are meant to be a base of building blocks. Simply being satisfied with evolution today and physics today is completely insane. Being satisfied with what we know is NOT what we want to do. The theory of evolution is mediocre to me and falling apart as we know it. I am not satisfied with it. It can be better, it can be put together better, it should be better. Right now you're looking at what I said above and thinking how I can believe in intelligent design and God. I just do. There are some things science tries to explain that don't satisfy my need of understanding. No matter how many science books I read or how many courses in school I have, it doesn't take away my faith. It only makes me feel stronger that there HAS to be some sort of higher power, some sort of God. You may also be thinking how I can possibly believe in the Bible and not question it. It's just a little thing called faith. There have been hard times in my life where some things I can't explain come across me. A sudden feeling that I can't explain. It's ok if you want to make fun of me or if you are making fun of me...It really doesn't bother me (although it can piss me off temporarily), but I thought I'd explain myself so you don't think I'm some ALL GOD believing, everything the church says is right kind of guy. I hate the church, I hate it's corruption, political and money hungriness. However, my own personal relationship with God is something that can't be explained and will never diminish.

 

 

Calling me a servant of science and saying things like "there HAS to be a higher power" and using your high school grades as a form of validation is beyond ridiculous.

 

But in fact, you are getting close to the point I was making. I didn't say to be happy with evolution -- BUT questioning it as a whole is an anachronized, ridiculous idea. Question the parts that are weak. Take the theory and make it more complete. The same goes for most of the topics scientists deal with today. String theory is a poor choice to relate to Evolutionary theory. String theory can barely even be considered a theory -- it has very little validity in the scientific community, at least as far as I understand it at a top research university and with friends at others.

 

Faith has no business in science, and you will fail at any attempts to become a physicist or scientist of any form until you learn to set your beliefs aside when dealing with science.

 

Of course science should be better, but chasing religion as a means of doing so or casting aside the years of research that other, much more intelligent, people have done is foolish and will lead you on a wild goose chase. Question, but do not dismiss out of hand that which you are incapable of comprehending (yet). Good luck with your endeavors.

[EdgeOfDarkness]

Ok..enough playing around, for you jack asses that really want to know how we (humans) ended up here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientology

We were brought here on spacecrafts...DUH !
{censored}ing Idiots !

[indespise]

nope... try again kid...ask your dad to help!

Translation:
"I'm going to close my eyes, and I can't hear you! LALALALALALA!!!"

[EpiPaul03]

Calling me a servant of science and saying things like "there HAS to be a higher power" and using your high school grades as a form of validation is beyond ridiculous. But in fact, you are getting close to the point I was making. I didn't say to be happy with evolution -- BUT questioning it as a whole is an anachronized, ridiculous idea. Question the parts that are weak. Take the theory and make it more complete. The same goes for most of the topics scientists deal with today. String theory is a poor choice to relate to Evolutionary theory. String theory can barely even be considered a theory -- it has very little validity in the scientific community, at least as far as I understand it at a top research university and with friends at others. Faith has no business in science, and you will fail at any attempts to become a physicist or scientist of any form until you learn to set your beliefs aside when dealing with science. Of course science should be better, but chasing religion as a means of doing so or casting aside the years of research that other, much more intelligent, people have done is foolish and will lead you on a wild goose chase. Question, but do not dismiss out of hand that which you are incapable of comprehending (yet). Good luck with your endeavors.

 

 

I couldn't disagree with you more with this remark:

"Faith has no business in science, and you will fail at any attempts to become a physicist or scientist of any form until you learn to set your beliefs aside when dealing with science."

 

I believe it was Albert Einstein himself that said science is not science without religion and vice-versa. I will succeed and I don't need an asshole like you telling me I will fail, because I will not.

 

By using my grades, I didn't mean for that to be taken as validation, I was just stating that I am in fact interested in science because I feel you think all I care and wonder about is religion.

 

To me, you can't question parts of Evolution without questioning the entire theory. IT's like a bridge, unless everything is well put together, down to the very nuts and bolts, it will come crashing down.

 

To humor your reading comprehension, I wasn't comparing String theory to evolution. I was simply saying that I was interested in science and used that as an example. Nice try, though.

 

BTW: I think you took the servant of science statement a little too literal. Just a hint.

[17 Tubes]

That reply was more for entertainment then for a clear cut answer... clearer answer is in the above post. We do have so much to learn... and i'm very thankful for those who have taken on the responsibility of physical learning and innovation. The scary thing is that I don't think that our total learning(spiritual or physical) can come in this life... but our choices here might drastically affect our life after death (if there is such a thing).

 

 

 

 

 

So....are we saying we DON'T know where God comes from?

 

We don;t WANT to know?

 

We don't care?

 

Comeon...let's imagine this! Where DID God come from?

[grayeyes777]

Calling me a servant of science and saying things like "there HAS to be a higher power" and using your high school grades as a form of validation is beyond ridiculous.

Faith has no business in science, and you will fail at any attempts to become a physicist or scientist of any form until you learn to set your beliefs aside when dealing with science.

Don't I recall einstein's grades being pretty poor in some areas??? Beliefs in general (pre-conceived notions) need to be put aside when examining things scientifically... i agree. But I have heard of many scientists being led to spiritual faith by the study of physical things. We also have "faith" that certain things will always react in a scientific way given a certain set of parameters, conditions, etc... but there are some occourances that will go against physical laws... thus creating flukes, miracles, etc. Not all laws/"knowledge" are always set in stone.... thus faith might have it's place sometime... but not often.

[indespise]

Where in this thread have I advocated the Bible as a credible source for our existence? How do you know I'm a Christian, am I? Am I jewish? I hope you realize what a stupid ass question that was, kidding or not. Saying moronic {censored}ing stupid-ass statements like tosses any sort of credibility I will give to you.

Your stance is well known in these threads.

[indespise]

Why? The language of science when referring to things we cannot empirically prove must include doubt -- and this is ANYTHING we can't experience empirically. This is the idea of "inductive" argument. There is the possibility that it is false. Most science is based on inductive theories. Induction has its flaws, but it's better than saying "well, {censored}, I dunno" and forming myths. They use what facts we have and form scientific theories (which are far from the common usage of the word) to try to explain things, while leaving room for improvement (thus not being dogmatic). I recommend you read up on the philosophy of science.

Quoted so that dogmatists don't miss it.

[17 Tubes]

I couldn't disagree with you more with this remark: "Faith has no business in science, and you will fail at any attempts to become a physicist or scientist of any form until you learn to set your beliefs aside when dealing with science." I believe it was Albert Einstein himself that said science is not science without religion and vice-versa. I will succeed and I don't need an asshole like you telling me I will fail, because I will not. By using my grades, I didn't mean for that to be taken as validation, I was just stating that I am in fact interested in science because I feel you think all I care and wonder about is religion. To me, you can't question parts of Evolution without questioning the entire theory. IT's like a bridge, unless everything is well put together, down to the very nuts and bolts, it will come crashing down. To humor your reading comprehension, I wasn't comparing String theory to evolution. I was simply saying that I was interested in science and used that as an example. Nice try, though.

 

 

 

I agree with you. I won;t pretend to be some scientist...but I think many scientists have "faith". Many are religious.

 

"leap of faith"...I mean come on. Ye syes I know...there is the Scietific Method. There is a precise and orderly way to conduct "science".

 

 

But there is also faith. Faith in Science. Faith in your theory. Faith in a phenoma or observation.

 

THEN proof.

 

 

Lots of faith all around!

[indespise]

There are other accounts that depict jesus as not being "son of God". But why would those who had followed him still keep believing in him to the point of extreme and horrific death??? Nero skinned Christians alive and rolled them in salt. Peter was crucified upside down. John boiled in a vat of hot oil. Paul (who had a "spiritual" encounter with Jesus... and who was a known murderer of Christians himself) was imprisoned for years, only to be beheaded. Jesus, in my mind, was either who he claimed to be or he was a great deceiver.

 

 

Paul is the only one of those who has any historical evidence, and he was a gnostic.

Suggesting that Jesus existed (and was the son of God) because people were willing to die and suffer for their beliefs would lead me to believe that any God someone has died for is real- which obviously isn't true, certainly not from a Christian (or any other) monotheistic view.