Members bdegrande Posted January 26, 2007 Members Share Posted January 26, 2007 Ali, then Joe Louis. Louis was a much better puncher than Ali, but didn't have his footwork or chin. He was knocked out by Schmeling early in his career. Ali didn't lose until a long layoff had made him just another fighter. Gene Tunney is another one who was right up there, toying with the "unbeatable" Dempsey in two fights. Tyson wasn't even the best modern heavyweight, Lennox Lews and Evander Holyfield were better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 23miles Posted January 26, 2007 Members Share Posted January 26, 2007 This is a question that you can never answer. Many heavyweight champs are deservedly considered immortal: John L. Lewis, Jack Johnson, Jack Dempsey, Joe Louis, Rocky Marciano, Joe Frazier, and Ali. Ali was very big, strong, extremely quick, and - often underrated - he could take a hell of a punch. He truly had a champion's heart. He was not a great puncher but was surely the best overall boxer of the lot. The one thing that is indisputable is that Ali was a man of his times and his times were very tumultuous. Unlike the other great fighters mentioned, Ali transcended boxing. He was a social phenomenon and a political figure. As such his standing in history and boxing combine to make him the greatest of all time and probably the greatest sportsman of all time. I happen to believe that, on a good day, he would have been able to beat all of the others mentioned in this thread but, of course, we will never know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Elric Posted January 26, 2007 Members Share Posted January 26, 2007 Oh come on, now I have to start arguing. Joe Louis was better than Ali.He knocked out Schmeling in the FIRST ROUND, same with John Henry Louis. "From December 1940 to March 1942, when his career was interrupted by World War II, Louis defended his title ten times, a frequency unmatched by any heavyweight champion since the end of the bareknuckle era. His nearly-monthly fights against every challenger, and his convincing wins, earned his opponents the unfair group nickname "Bum of the Month."In all, Louis made 25 defenses of his heavyweight title from 1937 to 1949. He was a world champion for 11 years and 10 months. Louis set records for any division in number of defenses and longevity as world champion non stop, and both records still stand. His most remarkable record is that he knocked out 23 opponents in 27 title fights." I think a lot of people are likely old enough to at least vaguely remember Ali and the heavy weight heyday of the 70s. And all are old enough to have heard someone else reference it reverently. Ali was an impressive media personality, and cultural icon, as well. He was a GREAT boxer but I think these factors influence people's opinions HEAVILY on questions like this, in addition to his actual ability and accomplishments. When you talk about great football players, these days, for example, not many people mention Jim Brown. Or Jim Thorpe. Or any of a zillion other greats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members branjispad Posted January 26, 2007 Members Share Posted January 26, 2007 i got that tyson dvd espn has out... man that guy was scary he didnt even take a step back until like his 10th fight he'd just walk in and {censored} people up and keep coming. hit them with like a 5 hit combo and they'd be pretty much dead. i don't care how great boxers are, how to stick and move, run around like a {censored} like ali was famous for. he just went in beat the {censored} out of them and it wa sover in a matter of seconds. the only reason buster got him was his long reaching jabs. everytime tyson came in he would just hold him. he must have learned that from tysons previous fight because he could get anything from always being held. if the refs were worth a {censored} they would have called him out too for being a pansy and clinching everytime mike got close. in the end mike wasn't strong mentally but god he could hit harder than anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gdwill2u Posted January 26, 2007 Members Share Posted January 26, 2007 There is Muhhamed Ali, so far in front of everyone else thAt the rest aren't worth mentioning, IMO. The more you know about boxing the More you can appreciate him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cobrahead1030 Posted January 26, 2007 Members Share Posted January 26, 2007 the only one that really sticks out in my memory is tyson, i wasn't around to see anyone before him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members frankencat Posted January 26, 2007 Members Share Posted January 26, 2007 Ali. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Larry the Dog Posted January 26, 2007 Members Share Posted January 26, 2007 Ali would have beat any heavyweight. The fastest heavyweight ever, great defense, an even better chin, heart, and he was an underrated puncher. So he squeaked out wins in 2/3 with Norton(styles make fights)....there's not a great fighter EVER that's not had questionable decision victories. Joe Louis(all due respect) had a questionable chin. Ali would ko him after 12 rounds. Marciano? he'd never be able to catch Ali....he'd easily jab his way to a decision or stop him on cuts(Rocky had very fragile skin). Ali beat Liston, Patterson, Archie Moore, Frazier, Foreman, Ron Lyle, Norton, Quarry.....everyone, when the era for heavyweights was the best. And for all you Tyson advocates, Holyfield and Lewis would have whipped the dog{censored} out of him no matter when they fought. Whenever Tyson beat good fighters, it was mainy because they were scared {censored}less to get in the ring with him. Douglas, Holyfield, and Lewis weren't intimidated by the Tyson mystique....that was half the battle right there. Could Tyson punch? Absolutely. He also had speed, stamina, defense, and a good chin. But he always had problems when the other guy could take what he could dish out. In their first fight, Tyson hit Holyfield after the bell in the first round (the intimidation factor). What'd Holyfield do? Smacked him back. He won the mind games right there, Tyson was lost, and got his ass whipped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 5ththrax Posted January 26, 2007 Members Share Posted January 26, 2007 Rocky Balboa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Armitage Posted January 27, 2007 Members Share Posted January 27, 2007 I swear my girlfriend could kick any of those guys asses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members anthony Posted January 27, 2007 Members Share Posted January 27, 2007 Why is this thread here? anyway I'm a boxing buff and yeah Ali was the Greatest. He lost 4 years of his prime because he was stripped of his license to box during vietnam, and he still raged when he came back. On the right night Frazier, Norton, and even Spinx beat him and Tyson, Louis, Marciano, Johnson maybe could've also but that's why we watch fights, because you never know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members danyeo Posted January 27, 2007 Members Share Posted January 27, 2007 You're just TOO young to remember Ali! Seen any of his fights? Doubt it!! +1000000000. I bet that in his prime George Foreman would have knocked the {censored} out of Tyson. Foreman was old as {censored} and he gave Holyfield a good fight and Holyfield beat Tyson TWICE. And Ali beat Foreman when everyone thought the Foreman was going to kill Ali. George was strong as a Grizzly Bear when he was young. And he was a lot bigger than Tyson and some said he was the hardest hitter ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members danyeo Posted January 27, 2007 Members Share Posted January 27, 2007 I don't agree... not only did Tyson hit harder then anyone else I've ever seen, but he could take punches all day long... I really don't think Ali could have hurt him, and I seriously doubt he could evade Tyson for 12 rounds. Once Tyson got a few body shots in and hurt him a little, it would have been over pretty fast.Check out some of the Tyson footage on Youtube. No one could stand up to some of those punches, there was just so much power behind them. Ever see the Ali/Foreman fight. Ali let Foreman hit him but Ali had great defense and he survived Foremans onslaught and beat him in the later rounds. From what i saw of Foreman in his prime he was stronger than Tyson and was much bigger. I watched a special on Ali last week which was great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members recordingtrack1 Posted January 27, 2007 Members Share Posted January 27, 2007 I'd have to say my dad. He whooped my butt a bunch of times!!!! Nah, seriously, my all time favorite would have to be Ali. It's strictly speculation, but I always thought of Tyson as having the most killer instinct of any fighter I ever saw. In a match up at prime, I believe Ali could have probably taken him but it would have been monstrous fight. To quote Howard Cosell, "a virtual plethora of pugilistic expertise":thu: RT1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members unferth Posted January 27, 2007 Members Share Posted January 27, 2007 +1000000000. I bet that in his prime George Foreman would have knocked the {censored} out of Tyson. Foreman was old as {censored} and he gave Holyfield a good fight and Holyfield beat Tyson TWICE. And Ali beat Foreman when everyone thought the Foreman was going to kill Ali. George was strong as a Grizzly Bear when he was young. And he was a lot bigger than Tyson and some said he was the hardest hitter ever. A young Foreman would have taken Tyson's head off, just as he did to Frazier-- hell, even an old Foreman might have done it. Tyson's style was absolutely made to order for George. He had too much reach and hit much, much too hard for anyone to charge at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Chief Posted January 27, 2007 Members Share Posted January 27, 2007 You're just TOO young to remember Ali! Seen any of his fights? Doubt it!! I'm not. Tyson in his short prime was the best. Absolutely devastating. From an overall career standpoint, it's Ali. Chief Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members isvoid Posted January 27, 2007 Members Share Posted January 27, 2007 I swear my girlfriend could kick any of those guys asses. So you kept in touch since you got out of jail? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members love_o_rock Posted January 27, 2007 Members Share Posted January 27, 2007 Ali had the most in-human, remarkable, unfair speed, reflexes, and just overall agility of anyone i've ever seen, boxing or not. I'm not puttin down tyson, no doubt he was one mean s.o.b. in his prime, but you have to appreciate Ali. Just totally un-natural. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members anthony Posted January 27, 2007 Members Share Posted January 27, 2007 A young Foreman would have taken Tyson's head off, just as he did to Frazier-- hell, even an old Foreman might have done it. Tyson's style was absolutely made to order for George. He had too much reach and hit much, much too hard for anyone to charge at. I often thought of Tyson as a more modern Frazier and in that respect could've done Ali in. But Tyson in his prime either took em out early or won by decision albiet a frustrating fight for tyson. Do you remember Tony Tucker, he lost to tyson by decision but never was hurt and handle tyson well. He was Ali size but was only a mediocre heavyweight, no Ali. Man I wasn't alive then but the heavyweights back in Ali's day were badass. Liston, Frazier, Norton, Foreman, Holmes. As a kid I watched most of Tysons first 20 fights on ESPN. He was my hero and it's sad how quickly people forget what someone was in their prime. The same with Frazier, a phenomenal fighter who was a good guy, and then they go and put up a statue of Rocky in his hometown. Fricken pull that thing down and put up one of Joe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Slaytallica Posted January 27, 2007 Members Share Posted January 27, 2007 ALI!!!!! What the {censored}? Without A DOUBT.. Now the thread can end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ss454 Posted January 27, 2007 Members Share Posted January 27, 2007 I've watched a lot of classic fights since I was a kid and Tyson was one of the best hands down. Ali honestly wasn't that fast on his feet. He moved similarly to Chris Bird by ducking his head back and leaning in/out to avoid the blows or take the power out of them. I don't think he ever fought anyone like Tyson with the way he moved his feet side to side and threw insane body shots then followed up with uppercuts and overhand shots. Tyson had KO power in every punch he threw and threw a lot of punches. The main problem comparing older fighters to newer fighters is how much more evolved the sports are. No doubt Marciano was a killer but he was small for a HW and would get knocked out by many of todays lesser known fighters. Marciano is my favorite and he had some serious wars. His chin and power kept him undefeated...there was never a fighter with more heart! He was 49-0 with 43 KO's. Joe Louis, Jersey Joe x2, Ezzard Charles x2, Archie Moore...that's a hell of a record being 5'11" and 184lbs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members anthony Posted January 27, 2007 Members Share Posted January 27, 2007 In Ali's early days he was the fastest thing alive. When he came back during the Frazier era he slowed but still had the most solid chin and power, He was the Greatest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Justin Thyme Posted January 27, 2007 Members Share Posted January 27, 2007 Best egomanic - AliBest self promoter - AliBest draft dodger - Ali Best heavyweight of all time -- MARCIANO!!!! Hands down. There will never be a champ to go undefeated EVER again. Period. Respect the man please. Ali, Lewis, Liston, Tyson, blah, blah, blah, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeathMonkey Posted January 27, 2007 Members Share Posted January 27, 2007 I always loved the way Hagler fought. Never thought he got his due - those fights with Hearns were so fun to watch. And I'm gonna say that Jack Johnson could have taken 90% of the dudes on this list, as could John L. Sullivan. Bareknuckle, bitches! Jack Demsey - holy cow. The Tyson of his day. This is an interesting read (at the bottom, click the link for an explanation of the chart) http://coxscorner.tripod.com/heavyweightchart.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members luke978 Posted January 27, 2007 Members Share Posted January 27, 2007 I've watched a lot of classic fights since I was a kid and Tyson was one of the best hands down. Ali honestly wasn't that fast on his feet. He moved similarly to Chris Bird by ducking his head back and leaning in/out to avoid the blows or take the power out of them. I don't think he ever fought anyone like Tyson with the way he moved his feet side to side and threw insane body shots then followed up with uppercuts and overhand shots. Tyson had KO power in every punch he threw and threw a lot of punches. The main problem comparing older fighters to newer fighters is how much more evolved the sports are. No doubt Marciano was a killer but he was small for a HW and would get knocked out by many of todays lesser known fighters. Marciano is my favorite and he had some serious wars. His chin and power kept him undefeated...there was never a fighter with more heart! He was 49-0 with 43 KO's. Joe Louis, Jersey Joe x2, Ezzard Charles x2, Archie Moore...that's a hell of a record being 5'11" and 184lbs... +1 on Marciano....That was one Never Say Die mother{censored}er. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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