Members unferth Posted January 26, 2007 Members Share Posted January 26, 2007 Not that he was a bad boxer, but not at all the the greatest of all time, like he stated. He didn't fight that many with merit, when he did, he lost. you gots to be kidding. or trolling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Iloveneilp Posted January 26, 2007 Members Share Posted January 26, 2007 Not that he was a bad boxer, but not at all the the greatest of all time, like he stated. He didn't fight that many with merit, when he did, he lost. We'll just have to agree to disagree. Nothing personal, but Ali said he was "The Greatest" 'cause he was! NOBODY backed it up more than Clay/Ali! Liston, Frazier, Forman, etc...They were NOT bums, they just got beat by "The Greatest"! Floated like a butterfly, and stung like a bee! How can you argue with that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rufus Leaking Posted January 26, 2007 Members Share Posted January 26, 2007 Ali in his prime would have toyed with Tyson. . I find that hard to believe. Tyson in his prime was just unstoppable. Just from a strength standpoint, I have to think an Ali / Tyson fight would have been very heavily weighted in Tyson's favor. Does anyone know their respective stats in their prime - weight etc..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members unferth Posted January 26, 2007 Members Share Posted January 26, 2007 I find that hard to believe. Tyson in his prime was just unstoppable. Just from a strength standpoint, I have to think an Ali / Tyson fight would have been very heavily weighted in Tyson's favor. Does anyone know their respective stats in their prime - weight etc..? Ali was much bigger--6'3" to Tyson's 5'10" or so. Ali fought anywhere from the low 200s to about 230; Tyson from 190-210 (speaking from memory). More to the point, people waited for two decades for a hugely strong puncher to burrow in on Ali and knock him the {censored} out. Never happened, and though he hit the canvas a few times, it never really came close to happening when he was in his prime. His hand and foot speed were simply a cut above anything else the heavyweight division had to offer. Ali-Tyson would have looked like the first Liston fight or the third Frazier fight, with Tyson eating dozens of jabs and never landing the big one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Iloveneilp Posted January 26, 2007 Members Share Posted January 26, 2007 I find that hard to believe. Tyson in his prime was just unstoppable. Just from a strength standpoint, I have to think an Ali / Tyson fight would have been very heavily weighted in Tyson's favor. Does anyone know their respective stats in their prime - weight etc..? I respectfully TOTALLY disagree! A great boxer would win 95% of the time. Just like good pitching beats good hitting in baseball! Ya see, Ali was SO fast defensively, that Tyson wouldn't have known how to counter that. Again, Tyson fought great(tough), but Ali was a great fighter! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members peppe6v6 Posted January 26, 2007 Author Members Share Posted January 26, 2007 I find that hard to believe. Tyson in his prime was just unstoppable. Just from a strength standpoint, I have to think an Ali / Tyson fight would have been very heavily weighted in Tyson's favor. Does anyone know their respective stats in their prime - weight etc..? I think like you, Tyson in his prime would have defaeted everyone maybe excpted Marciano. think that he has been defeated by Lewis when Lewis was at his best but It was a balanced match, tyson went ko after a quite good fight, think at the same match with Tyson in his prime Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members "sasquatch" Posted January 26, 2007 Members Share Posted January 26, 2007 Ali gets my vote but If Mike Tyson had remained the Mike Tyson of his Prime, I would have voted for him. Mike Fell apart when Cus died and when he left Caton and Jacobsen for that assclown don King,He had it all back then... thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mel Cooley Posted January 26, 2007 Members Share Posted January 26, 2007 ALI! There ain't no other answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rufus Leaking Posted January 26, 2007 Members Share Posted January 26, 2007 I respectfully TOTALLY disagree! A great boxer would win 95% of the time. Just like good pitching beats good hitting in baseball! Ya see, Ali was SO fast defensively, that Tyson wouldn't have known how to counter that. Again, Tyson fought great(tough), but Ali was a great fighter! I don't agree... not only did Tyson hit harder then anyone else I've ever seen, but he could take punches all day long... I really don't think Ali could have hurt him, and I seriously doubt he could evade Tyson for 12 rounds. Once Tyson got a few body shots in and hurt him a little, it would have been over pretty fast. Check out some of the Tyson footage on Youtube. No one could stand up to some of those punches, there was just so much power behind them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members "sasquatch" Posted January 26, 2007 Members Share Posted January 26, 2007 Ali was much bigger--6'3" to Tyson's 5'10" or so. Ali fought anywhere from the low 200s to about 230; Tyson from 190-210 (speaking from memory).More to the point, people waited for two decades for a hugely strong puncher to burrow in on Ali and knock him the {censored} out. Never happened, and though he hit the canvas a few times, it never really came close to happening when he was in his prime. His hand and foot speed were simply a cut above anything else the heavyweight division had to offer. Ali-Tyson would have looked like the first Liston fight or the third Frazier fight, with Tyson eating dozens of jabs and never landing the big one. tyson fought at 219-225 lbs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members "sasquatch" Posted January 26, 2007 Members Share Posted January 26, 2007 Tyson hit harder then anyone else I've ever seen tyson could knock you out with either hand with hooks, uppercuts, and crosses. no one ever had the power he had... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members unferth Posted January 26, 2007 Members Share Posted January 26, 2007 Tyson was a terrific fighter in his prime, but he was by no means the historical phenomenon some of you seem to imagine. He certainly did not punch any harder than Foreman, Frazier, or Earnie Shavers, to name just a few. Styles make fights, and his would have been tailor-made for Ali, IMO. I pretty much agree with this guy's take: http://www.cyberboxingzone.com/boxing/w0104-fl.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members STEEL KAGE Posted January 26, 2007 Members Share Posted January 26, 2007 The thing that alot of you guys forget about Tyson is that heusedto be a damn good boxer; strong side to side movement, Great Jab and LOADS of combinations. Kevin Rooney and Cus Damato were instrumental in this. People look at the Post Jail Tyson fights against Lewis and Hollyfield and think thats what Tyson was all about and they couldnt be more wrong. Mike Tyson in his prime with Damato, Rooney, Cayton and Jacobsen was an indisputable Juggernaut. His biggest opponent and the one that would eventually vanquish him, was himself... You cant deny guys like Louis and Marciano though, especially Joe who was pure class... That was a different time and a different breed of man though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rufus Leaking Posted January 26, 2007 Members Share Posted January 26, 2007 tyson fought at 219-225 lbs Yup, I just checked and at age 20 he was 222 lbs with just 5.5% body fat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dru Edwards Posted January 26, 2007 Members Share Posted January 26, 2007 Without a doubt..."The Greatest" - Muhammad Ali/Cassius Clay. PERIOD!!! Absolutely. Mike Tyson could have had a chance to hold that title if he didn't mess up in the middle of his career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members STEEL KAGE Posted January 26, 2007 Members Share Posted January 26, 2007 Ali-Tyson would have looked like the first Liston fight or the third Frazier fight, with Tyson eating dozens of jabs and never landing the big one. I disagree. Tyson in his prime threw alot of combos and eventually, the devastating body shots that Tyson threw would have taken their toll.. Tyson could also go the distance back then and considering how busy a fighter he was, that says alot.. the Rope a dope wouldnt have worked on Mike... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Iloveneilp Posted January 26, 2007 Members Share Posted January 26, 2007 I don't agree... not only did Tyson hit harder then anyone else I've ever seen, but he could take punches all day long... I really don't think Ali could have hurt him, and I seriously doubt he could evade Tyson for 12 rounds. Once Tyson got a few body shots in and hurt him a little, it would have been over pretty fast. Check out some of the Tyson footage on Youtube. No one could stand up to some of those punches, there was just so much power behind them. Umm...He didn't take much of Buster Douglas' punches...or Evander Holyfields' for that matter! Memory lapse? Ali evaded better boxers than Tyson, ie...Liston, Forman, Frazier, Norton,...Ali would of jabbed Tyson to death, and Tyson would of bit his ear off, too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members unferth Posted January 26, 2007 Members Share Posted January 26, 2007 I disagree. Tyson in his prime threw alot of combos and eventually, the devastating body shots that Tyson threw would have taken their toll.. Tyson could also go the distance back then and considering how busy a fighter he was, that says alot.. the Rope a dope wouldnt have worked on Mike... Ali didn't pull out the rope a dope until he'd lost some speed; in his prime, I don't think he'd have needed it. Tyson was a terrific boxer early on, agreed. Ali was a much better one. In the end, these arguments always strike me as silly. what we're really asking is, "If the laws of time and space were suspended and the universe were totally different, precisely how would it be different?" and the answer is: make up your own answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 496dart Posted January 26, 2007 Members Share Posted January 26, 2007 Lennox Lewis . However , Marciano was unbeaten. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rufus Leaking Posted January 26, 2007 Members Share Posted January 26, 2007 Umm...He didn't take much of Buster Douglas' punches...or Evander Holyfields' for that matter! Memory lapse? Ali evaded better boxers than Tyson, ie...Liston, Forman, Frazier, Norton,...Ali would of jabbed Tyson to death, and Tyson would of bit his ear off, too! You're right with regard to those fights... he completely tanked as a fighter after his trainer died, he got divorced, went to prison... all that crap. He was never the same. But in his first few years, his prime, I don't think anyone could stand against him. If you were watching fights back then, it became a joke because everyone would shell out $50 or whatever it was for pay-per-view, and the fight would be over in the first couple of rounds - every time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 9ball Posted January 26, 2007 Members Share Posted January 26, 2007 i think tyson in his 'day' was the baddest mofo ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members STEEL KAGE Posted January 26, 2007 Members Share Posted January 26, 2007 Ali didn't pull out the rope a dope until he'd lost some speed; in his prime, I don't think he'd have needed it. Tyson was a terrific boxer early on, agreed. Ali was a much better one.In the end, these arguments always strike me as silly. what we're really asking is, "If the laws of time and space were suspended and the universe were totally different, precisely how would it be different?"and the answer is: make up your own answer. In the end, what else do you have to go on? While Ali may have had the edge as a boxer, You have to take into account that Ali never fought anyone like Tyson. In his prime, Tyson was a great boxer, His power was incredible but most importantly, he had unparalled speed on top of it. Combine all that and my guess is that it would have been too much for Ali.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Stephen Colbert Posted January 26, 2007 Members Share Posted January 26, 2007 MIKE TYSONNo one could have ever beaten Mike Tyson in his prime. He was totally ruined by Don King, and if King had never come around, there is no telling what kind of record Tyson would have had. Yes, lots of "what IFs" but there is simply no comparison to who was the best in his prime. AgreedTyson was a bad ass muther {censored}er. Don King ruined him....and the sport of boxing. Don King makes the WWF look respectable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members unferth Posted January 26, 2007 Members Share Posted January 26, 2007 In the end, what else do you have to go on? While Ali may have had the edge as a boxer, You have to take into account that Ali never fought anyone like Tyson. In his prime, Tyson was a great boxer, His power was incredible but most importantly, he had unparalled speed on top of it. Combine all that and my guess is that it would have been too much for Ali.. Tyson was nowhere near as fast as Ali, IMO, and I think Ali fought a number of similar (though perhaps less talented) guys ... but I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members STEEL KAGE Posted January 26, 2007 Members Share Posted January 26, 2007 Tyson was nowhere near as fast as Ali, IMO, and I think Ali fought a number of similar (though perhaps less talented) guys ... but I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. Hmmmm , Ill agree to the last part.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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