Members gibbed Posted September 12, 2007 Members Share Posted September 12, 2007 So is yours if you think that you can try to apply logic to Faith.. Newsflash, Trying to apply logic to faith is like trying to determine blood pressure with a pedal tuner; wrong tool for the wrong job... BTW, not being able to prove somthing doesnt mean that it doesnt exist.. what in this world can we not apply logic too? why should there be ONE thing which doesn't play by the rules of our world? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LaPepi Posted September 12, 2007 Members Share Posted September 12, 2007 For years I was a believer in the "Mighty Power Above" Lately, I'm more undecided. I'm beginning to think "WE" humans are God. We control our faith. We are intelligent beings capable of good and bad logic. As far as how we were created is still something I will probably never know. There is a lot of good information in the Bible but my logic tells me a lot of it is just stories.I am beginning to think my wife was made from a rib bone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members knucklefux Posted September 12, 2007 Members Share Posted September 12, 2007 If you can't accept something as a possibility, then you are no better off than the religious people you condemn for not looking at science objectively. -Ans- even the religious who claim that they accept that it's possibility that they're wrong don't REALLY accept that, though. if they did, they'd be constantly in search of what is right. and where do i condemn anyone? i don't believe what you do. i think it's just as feasible that the flying spaghetti monster is god. in the end, there is really ONE truth about god, and religion. people believe what the NEED to believe, but are limited to what is culturally available. what i'm saying is that everyone makes sense of life based on the information they have access to. for instance, it would be difficult for an individual to practice greek orthodox xianity here, because there are no greek orthodox churches. that just means that there are probably no greek orthodox xians here. i'm rambling. what i'm trying to say is that everyone needs to believe what it is that they believe. it's always functional, but it's also always limited to the cultural limitations of the region in which they reside. who knows, buddhism might really make sense to me if there were only a buddhist monk here for me to talk to...see? it just so happens that i don't need mythology to explain anything. if there's something that i don't have an answer for, or can't get the answer to, i say "i don't know" and i'm OK with that. sometimes "i don't know" is the best answer there is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bucketmaster Posted September 12, 2007 Members Share Posted September 12, 2007 Lots of things that people once believed but couldn't prove were ultimately shown to be true, OR not be true. Why would god get a pass from all logical conversation? Why is applying logic to his existence off limits? Because it might expose their wishful, atavistic beliefs for what they are. Whether God exists or not is a scientific question because it has very scientific consequences. The Universe would be seen from a very different scientific perspective if it had a God. Faith is irrelevant because it is believing things with no evidence and is therefore a pointless and meaningless endeavor that can only yield positive psychological effects at best. See The Flying Spaghetti Monster analogy for more information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sgt. Funk Posted September 12, 2007 Members Share Posted September 12, 2007 I have no reason to believe that there could be a god. Absolutely none. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SnaxSlingerAns Posted September 12, 2007 Members Share Posted September 12, 2007 even the religious who claim that they accept that it's possibility that they're wrong don't REALLY accept that, though. if they did, they'd be constantly in search of what is right. Who says they aren't? I know I always am. I can easily accept the fact that what I know right at this point in my life can and probably will be totally unhinged at somepoint and I'll have to change my way of thinking to adapt to new facts which are presented to me. Isn't that what being a productive human being is all about? Not being open to the possibility of something other than your ideas/notions/beliefs puts you into the extreme religious "bible thumper" boat, IMO, because you aren't open to change and open to evolve. -Ans- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members draelyc Posted September 12, 2007 Members Share Posted September 12, 2007 Fixed. Makes no difference. The burden of proof is noton the non-believer to disprove unfalsifiable claims of religions. Your logic is flawed.What, pray tell, did you "fix"? The bit you quoted looks exactly like what I originally typed.Furthermore, I didn't put any burden of proof on the non-believer to disprove anything. Your comprehension is flawed.Furthermore, if you knew anything about logic, you would know that whether a claim is falsifiable or not is only relevant when discussing empirical matters that are subject to empirical testing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fly135 Posted September 12, 2007 Members Share Posted September 12, 2007 I feel that their must be something out their how are we the only lifeforms in this vast universe that is illogical. The idea of God is a hope thing that something is their after everything is over. I feel their is a greater being as the coincidence of life is to much for chance imo. The creation of the Earth and life on earth was a gazillion to one chance but yet it happened. Think about this-Earth is the perfect distance from the sun for the correct amount of heat to support life- When the moon and earth came together the moon hit the earth and bounced off and got stuck at the perfect distance from the earth to control the tides and balance the planet otherwise the earth would spin on an uneven axis constantly turning and basically rolling around through space.- the atmosphere is 21% oxygen. if it was 19% we wouldnt have enough oxygen to breath, if their was 23% our bodies would be so flammable we would burst into flames. The coincidence of life is just to much for the mind to boggle and i feel it is to much for mere coincidence.Whether the christian God exists or not i do not know and cannot say however i do believe in a greater being in someway or form.Also about this universe creation talk their are to many theories to count. The Big Bang of course is the most widely accepted. But of course their are many others such as my favorite the one about how are universe is part of this "multi-verse" where all the universes sit on this one plain. And universes are created as two universes collide. and that they also believe that an entire vast universe displacing as much space as our own could exist in a laboratory and thus they want to make one. But this led me to believe how funny it would be if our entire universe was created in some lab of some other universe lol. Same theory as the little universe in the orb from the MIB movie OTOH, when life exists when all the conditions are wrong (I'm guessing the vast percentage of the universe), then you might really be inclined to believe a God is involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members draelyc Posted September 12, 2007 Members Share Posted September 12, 2007 Lots of things that people once believed but couldn't prove were ultimately shown to be true, OR not be true. Why would god get a pass from all logical conversation? Why is applying logic to his existence off limits? The essence of the thing -- the very definition of "god" -- puts it beyond the realm of empirical testing. Ergo, you go! Logic (real logic, that is) is perfectly applicable to spiritual matters, btw. One begins with a postulate -- an assertion taken as given (because it is beyond proof/disprove) -- and merely reasons from that assertion. In this case, either initial assertion (god exists, or god doesn't exist) is a leap of faith; from there, we can proceed reasonably and logically, regardless of which initial postulate we choose.Try THINKING about this before you post! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bucketmaster Posted September 12, 2007 Members Share Posted September 12, 2007 Furthermore, if you knew anything about logic, you would know that whether a claim is falsifiable or not is only relevant when discussing empirical matters that are subject to empirical testing. If something exists, it is an empirical matter by definition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members draelyc Posted September 12, 2007 Members Share Posted September 12, 2007 even the religious who claim that they accept that it's possibility that they're wrong don't REALLY accept that, though. if they did, they'd be constantly in search of what is right.And we are. At least, I and all the "religious" people I know are. What's your point? in the end, there is really ONE truth about god, and religion. people believe what the NEED to believe, but are limited to what is culturally available. That is FAR, FAR, FAR from being the "only" truth about god and religion. Sorry. what i'm saying is that everyone makes sense of life based on the information they have access to. for instance, it would be difficult for an individual to practice greek orthodox xianity here, because there are no greek orthodox churches. that just means that there are probably no greek orthodox xians here. i'm rambling. what i'm trying to say is that everyone needs to believe what it is that they believe. it's always functional, but it's also always limited to the cultural limitations of the region in which they reside. who knows, buddhism might really make sense to me if there were only a buddhist monk here for me to talk to...see? it just so happens that i don't need mythology to explain anything. if there's something that i don't have an answer for, or can't get the answer to, i say "i don't know" and i'm OK with that. sometimes "i don't know" is the best answer there is. The "humans have a psychological need, and that 'explains' religion" thing just doesn't work. It's a convenient way to dismiss spiritual teachings, but that's all it is -- a cop out. IMVHO, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members draelyc Posted September 12, 2007 Members Share Posted September 12, 2007 Because it might expose their wishful, atavistic beliefs for what they are.Whether God exists or not is a scientific question because it has very scientific consequences. The Universe would be seen from a very different scientific perspective if it had a God.Faith is irrelevant because it is believing things with no evidence and is therefore a pointless and meaningless endeavor that can only yield positive psychological effects at best.See The Flying Spaghetti Monster analogy for more information. There is no logical reason to believe that any of the above statements are true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bucketmaster Posted September 12, 2007 Members Share Posted September 12, 2007 The essence of the thing -- the very definition of "god" -- puts it beyond the realm of empirical testing. Have you even heard the Flying Spaghetti Monster of Orbiting teapot analogies? By that logic, I could justify a belief in anything just because it is "beyond empirical testing". My imaginary friend for example, Brian. He clearly exists and created the universe. Tests are of course, pointless because he is outside the realms of logic. Since he created those rules. My belief in Brian is so delightfully convenient in that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bucketmaster Posted September 12, 2007 Members Share Posted September 12, 2007 There is no logical reason to believe that any of the above statements are true. Oh more assertions without anything to back yourself up. How convenient. EXPLAIN YOURSELF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sgt. Funk Posted September 12, 2007 Members Share Posted September 12, 2007 So is yours if you think that you can try to apply logic to Faith.. Newsflash, Trying to apply logic to faith is like trying to determine blood pressure with a pedal tuner; wrong tool for the wrong job... BTW, not being able to prove somthing doesnt mean that it doesnt exist.. Yes, because faith is both irrational and illogical.Actually, you can measure faith with logic, but if the result isn't what you wanted to hear, it must be the fault of the instrument. This is what we call being "in denial"Most people WANT to believe in God, people like to PRETEND that their lives have a higher calling, meaning, value, ect, and hold to the selfish belief that they are getting a reward when they die for being a good little boy. Carrot on the end of a stick.People just have a real hard time accepting that they are all alone, and that nobody listens to them pray except themselves, nobody hears them. . nobody cares, nobody is watching you, protecting you. Your on your own. Instead of being dillusional about it, just own up to it and have the balls to realize that your flying solo. Its ok, its not that hard. Life doesn't change much at all when you let god go. You just feel quite liberated and relieved that you dont have to live a self-generated lie anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members draelyc Posted September 12, 2007 Members Share Posted September 12, 2007 If something exists, it is an empirical matter by definition. Then please explain how to measure the following things EMPIRICALLY: love hope integrity justice poetry duty loyalty scorn hate despair tEh br:freak::freak:talNESSZZZZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members draelyc Posted September 12, 2007 Members Share Posted September 12, 2007 Have you even heard the Flying Spaghetti Monster of Orbiting teapot analogies? By that logic, I could justify a belief in anything just because it is "beyond empirical testing". My imaginary friend for example, Brian. He clearly exists and created the universe. Tests are of course, pointless because he is outside the realms of logic. Since he created those rules. My belief in Brian is so delightfully convenient in that way. I love that website! All your doing is supporting what I've already asserted. Do you have a point of your own? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members draelyc Posted September 12, 2007 Members Share Posted September 12, 2007 Oh more assertions without anything to back yourself up. How convenient. EXPLAIN YOURSELF The burden of proof is not on the non-believer to disprove a thing.The burden is on the person who put for the statements to offer some (ANY) logical reason that they should be accepted as valid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members draelyc Posted September 12, 2007 Members Share Posted September 12, 2007 Yes, because faith is both irrational and illogical. Actually, you can measure faith with logic, but if the result isn't what you wanted to hear, it must be the fault of the instrument. This is what we call being "in denial" Most people WANT to believe in God, people like to PRETEND that their lives have a higher calling, meaning, value, ect, and hold to the selfish belief that they are getting a reward when they die for being a good little boy. Carrot on the end of a stick. People just have a real hard time accepting that they are all alone, and that nobody listens to them pray except themselves, nobody hears them. . nobody cares, nobody is watching you, protecting you. Your on your own. Instead of being dillusional about it, just own up to it and have the balls to realize that your flying solo. Its ok, its not that hard. Life doesn't change much at all when you let god go. You just feel quite liberated and relieved that you dont have to live a self-generated lie anymore. See, this is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. This guy begins with the FAITH ASSUMPTION that there is no god and that people are "are all alone, and that nobody listens to them pray except themselves, nobody hears them. . nobody cares, nobody is watching you, protecting you. Your on your own..." etc.From that initial premise -- which he accepts ON FAITH -- he argues very reasonably and logically to a conclusion about what people ought to do.Nice. Perfectly valid.Except that he conveniently "forgets" to acknowledge that his conclusion is, ultimately, based on his own article of faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DonaldDemon Posted September 12, 2007 Members Share Posted September 12, 2007 with my beliefs and heritage I wont get into the whole god thing, I've never sat foot in a Christian church in my life.. I would be interested in hearing this, even if it was in a pm. I've never been able to explain my beliefs properly when a Christian asks me. In fact, my woman and I just broke up partially due to her thinking I have no morals or faith. I can't seem to convey to some people that if you can't feel it and see it all around you than you will not understand no matter how I will explain it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members johnfrusciante Posted September 12, 2007 Members Share Posted September 12, 2007 I have read up on it, and have found out they really dont know. there is theorys, but the only thing they can understand is how things work in the universe, not how it was made or why it was made, etc. you should touch up on the meaning of the term "scientific theory." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members catphish Posted September 12, 2007 Members Share Posted September 12, 2007 What, pray tell, did you "fix"? The bit you quoted looks exactly like what I originally typed.Your comprehension is flawed. that's funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sgt. Funk Posted September 12, 2007 Members Share Posted September 12, 2007 O.J. Simpson didn't do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fly135 Posted September 12, 2007 Members Share Posted September 12, 2007 One thing that I see from many is that God has endured alot of crap through the ages thanks to man and his constant need to meddle and {censored} up anything and everything that he touches.I'm having trouble with the picture of a God who created the universe "enduring" anything from an infinitesimally small spec of his creation. I'm getting an image of a person who perpetually complains about a grain of sand bothering him, and he can't figure out what to do about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members johnfrusciante Posted September 12, 2007 Members Share Posted September 12, 2007 how are we the only lifeforms in this vast universe that is illogical.that's because it's not true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.