Amp wattage a thing of teh past

[cap'n'crunch]

The thump of a 100watt stack is a nice feeling on stage but, it should mostly get lost before it hits the audience. The only thump you should notice in the audience is from the kick drum and bass guitar. If there is too much thump from a guitar rig into the board a good soundman dials it out the best he can to not interfere with the bass instruments.

[Shiny_Surface]

Why oh why is it that the amps which have all the features and channel switching, etc., have to be the 100w models? For example, Egnater just came out with an absolutely brilliant 20w amp called the Rebel 20. It gets great cleans and great dirties. Why can't an amp like this have 2 footswitchable channels, clean/dirty, reverb, and all the condiments of the bigger models? For us few who gig regulatorily, why not have a 20-watter that kicks ass and do away with the half staque 4x12?

Nice troll

So you like powertube distortion basically, all the other arguments go right out the window imo.

[cap'n'crunch]

The thump of a 100watt stack is a nice feeling on stage but, it should mostly get lost before it hits the audience. The only thump you should notice in the audience is from the kick drum and bass guitar. If there is too much thump from a guitar rig into the board a good soundman dials it out the best he can to not interfere with the bass instruments.

[newholland]

Because people who gig regularly want their cleans clean. I have a 150 watt head, a 100 watt head (on it's way out) and a stereo poweramp on the way that is 90 watts per channel :poke:

 

 

i disagree with that surmisal. i hate sterilized cleans.. 20 watts gives me plenty clean cleans, and if i want more clean, i roll the volume back on my guit and the band plays quieter if necessary.

 

it ain't 120 db on stage.. but that's what PA's are for.

[Zozobra]

Boris does....so does mono

 

 

Boris pack plenty orange and I woudnt say mono were doom. Post metal/rock for sure but not doom. I've tried to get boris but I've given up.

[tlbonehead]

The thump of a 100watt stack is a nice feeling on stage but, it should mostly get lost before it hits the audience. The only thump you should notice in the audience is from the kick drum and bass guitar. If there is too much thump from a guitar rig into the board a good soundman dials it out the best he can to not interfere with the bass instruments.

Precisely, it just creates a muddy mess if you don't dial it out in the channel strip.

[almightycrunch]

Can't say I have. I'm not saying it isnt possible but a twin wouldnt be a go to amp for that kind of tone.

 

 

Im sure that voodu valve turns that Twin into an incredibly punchy firebreather:thu:

[Say Ocean]

i disagree with that surmisal. i hate sterilized cleans.. 20 watts gives me plenty clean cleans, and if i want more clean, i roll the volume back on my guit and the band plays quieter if necessary. it ain't 120 db on stage.. but that's what PA's are for.

But I think another side of this whole argument is that 100 watts isn't THAT much louder than 50, or even 20 (sorta). Hell, if you want quieter stage volume just turn your amp backwards if you have to, or use less speakers. It also depends on the venue and what style of music you play. For me, cranking my triple has never been an issue. With my planned axe-fx rig though, I'll be able to play at any voume

[guitarbilly74]

 

I think attenuators are over-rated....and here's why: While yes there is a sweet spot indeed, most us like volume. It sound good, turn it up and it sounds better. You can see that right here in some of the posts, people don't give a {censored} about a lower watt amp, they need their balls rattled. So you say "this sounds great, but it's too loud"...hook up an attenuator, and loose more than half of the equation of satisfying tone; good old fashion air moving volume. I am not saying an attenuator doesn't work, or doesn't work for you, I'm just saying....often it's the VOLUME we like just as much as the tone.

 

 

The problem is the "all or nothing" mentality where people expect the amp to be on 10 and the attenuator has to bring it down to 1.

 

The way to do it is to get the amp on it's sweet spot and them use the attenuator to bring down the volume to where it is still loud, but not TOO loud, just loud enough. Mine (weber mass) also has a tone stack that lets me compensate for frequency loss. I get much better tone my setting the amp at the sweet spot and using the attenuator to reduce it to a ok level than by just using the master volume.

 

Amps and attenuators have knobs and the best settings are always in the mid range....

[Antipownt]

Nice troll So you like powertube distortion basically, all the other arguments go right out the window imo.

I think my point was more a statement that a 20 watt tube amp can be loud enough, and a question about why such amps don't have all the features of the bigger amps, such as channel switching, reverb, FX loops, etc. Be sure to read my posts carefully so you don't get pownt again.

[tlbonehead]

Because people who gig regularly want their cleans clean. I have a 150 watt head, a 100 watt head (on it's way out) and a stereo poweramp on the way that is 90 watts per channel :poke:

I gig 100+ times a year and I really have little use for clean cleans. Depends on what you are playing. You can't make a blanket statement like that if you want to be accurate.

[tlbonehead]

But I think another side of this whole argument is that 100 watts isn't THAT much louder than 50, or even 20 (sorta). Hell, if you want quieter stage volume just turn your amp backwards if you have to, or use less speakers.

Great way to get an accurate idea of your true tone.
Those mids and highs go around corners so well. And a 100 watt amp is 100 watts whether it is going through 2x12s or 8x12s.

[cobrahead1030]

4 pages now, and almost no response to that bit from james peters

[tlbonehead]

I think my point was more a statement that a 20 watt tube amp can be loud enough, and a question about why such amps don't have all the features of the bigger amps, such as channel switching, reverb, FX loops, etc. Be sure to read my posts carefully so you don't get pownt again.

Ya, I got the jist of your posts but there are some amps in that range with lots of features. Just not as many of them.

[Antipownt]

Low wattage amps can be clean. Most people use a PA these days. Most arena players who have multi stacks only actually use a few speakers. More times than not, I've played smaller clubs and the sound guy was always asking me to turn my halfstack down. Whenever I've played larger (theater-size) stages, I usually can't crank the amp much above the drummer, and in that case, there's usually a monitor system large enough to amplify everything including the half stack.

I gravitate toward 50 and 100w heads, because they're usually the only amps that have multiple gain channels (TSL, JVM, Dual Rectifier, Tourmaster, VH4, etc). Since I rarely get the opportunity to crank any half stack much past 2 on the master, it would make sense to just use a smaller amp that you can open up a bit more.

I mentioned the Egnater Rebel 20, because it's plenty loud for just about any situation, but It would be nice for something like that to have multiple [footswitchable) channels and reverb.

Yes?

[tlbonehead]

4 pages now, and almost no response to that bit from james peters

Well the truth is that it costs nearly as much to make a high feature 20 watt amp as it does a 100 watt model with the same preanmp and features. But I'm one that would pay the price.

[newholland]

4 pages now, and almost no response to that bit from james peters

 

 

i think all he'd say is what he's always said-- that high gainers sound best with big power sections due to the fact that they're mainly preamp gain machines..

 

if that ain't yer bag-- yer in good with a lower wattage power amp.

[tlbonehead]

Low wattage amps can be clean. Most people use a PA these days. Most arena players who have multi stacks only actually use a few speakers.

Maybe in the more juvenile genres. But if you see a more serious act and a single guitarist has, say, three half-stacks behind him/her, they are probably using a switching multi-amp setup for different tones. Look at someone like Pete Stroud, he has this big wall of some of the juiciest amps ever made(probably at least 10 different amps) some combos, some half stacks and all used for different tones.

[17 Tubes]

The problem is the "all or nothing" mentality where people expect the amp to be on 10 and the attenuator has to bring it down to 1. The way to do it is to get the amp on it's sweet spot and them use the attenuator to bring down the volume to where it is still loud , but not TOO loud, just loud enough. Mine (weber mass) also has a tone stack that lets me compensate for frequency loss. I get much better tone my setting the amp at the sweet spot and using the attenuator to reduce it to a ok level than by just using the master volume. Amps and attenuators have knobs and the best settings are always in the mid range....

I can't disagree with anything you said here. , except: your last sentence. The best settings are wherever the settings end up sounding best...I have ran amps with practically zero high and presence. There isn't any rule far as I'm concerned, most certainly not "always".

[cobrahead1030]

i just found it awkward that he posted some pretty good insight right there on his page, yet people still wanna bicker and argue, rather than give some thought to someone who obviously knows about amp designs

 

"i've got a 12 watt amp that sounds great, everyone playing anything over 12.1 watts is too loud!!!"

 

"i must have a 100+ watt stack, your puny little amp is useless!"

 

"they mic the amps, you have 88 watts you don't need!"

 

"sometimes they don't mic the amps, you have 88 watts too little!"

 

"use a hot plate"

 

"the soundguy knows best, he's a god among men, he likes smaller amps"

 

seriously...we see this thread at least twice a month

[Zozobra]

Yup and we fall for it every time

[The Rossness]

Why oh why is it that the amps which have all the features and channel switching, etc., have to be the 100w models? For example, Egnater just came out with an absolutely brilliant 20w amp called the Rebel 20. It gets great cleans and great dirties. Why can't an amp like this have 2 footswitchable channels, clean/dirty, reverb, and all the condiments of the bigger models? For us few who gig regulatorily, why not have a 20-watter that kicks ass and do away with the half staque 4x12?

 

 

Learn how to spell.

[Shiny_Surface]

I think my point was more a statement that a 20 watt tube amp can be loud enough, and a question about why such amps don't have all the features of the bigger amps, such as channel switching, reverb, FX loops, etc. Be sure to read my posts carefully so you don't get pownt again.

Talk to amp designers then about the technical aspects behind why they don't offer those features in lower wattage amps.

For amps primarily voiced from preamp gain the power section is more like a stereo, yes it sounds better when you turn it up but you can still get decent tones at lower volumes by simply turning it down...

If you want powertube distortion, then your argument carries a bit more weight but you already denied that plausibility in your previous reply I noticed.

If you're really serious about low volume playing ditch the tubes altogether and get a modeler unless powertube distortion is actually an integral goal to your tonal pursuits, that's a whole other ball of wax though .

Antipownt my ass, bluesaholick you are not...

[iamthearm]

i don't know if its been mentioned yet but, alot of bars and small venues that do rock shows have {censored}ty PA's that can handle vox and maybe a kick mic. having a nice loud punchy rig is pretty sweet in those situations. i've been lugging around big gear for a long time and its been my personal experience that its more than worth the trouble.

[Kenny Powers]

Why oh why is it that the amps which have all the features and channel switching, etc., have to be the 100w models? For example, Egnater just came out with an absolutely brilliant 20w amp called the Rebel 20. It gets great cleans and great dirties. Why can't an amp like this have 2 footswitchable channels, clean/dirty, reverb, and all the condiments of the bigger models? For us few who gig regulatorily, why not have a 20-watter that kicks ass and do away with the half staque 4x12?

 

clips of your band that gigs "regulatorily?"