And you thought that AXE-FX was a game changer...

[17 Tubes]

 

I don't think you're really in a position to be lecturing a guy that makes his living selling guitars and amps about costs associated with production. My guess is that he has a better handle on it than you do. Secondly, I think you're missing the underlying point both Norton666 and myself have made: It doesn't matter what the amp is made out of or what it cost to produce, the overarching perception that the buying public has is that solid state amps should be considerably less than tube amps and tube amps should be expensive. That's why a $2000 Champ clone generates a bunch of positive buzz and a $1000 solid state head gets a bunch of negative reactions. The former fits into the established market template while the latter violates it. Ergo, most people are going to base their first impression of that amp on the sticker price. If it's perceived as being considerably higher than it should be it's going to turn a lot of people off....just like the low sticker price on amps like Bugeras causes a similar reaction...they don't fit 'the mold' so to speak. So, it doesn't really matter what the reality of the situation is, the perception is going to be that the amp is too expensive.

 

 

 

 

LOL at YOU lecturing ME about who should or shouldn't be lecturing.

 

And I basically said the exact same thing you did...lol hah-hah lol. Too funny.

 

You couldn't discern that what you described was EXACTLY my point? That you shoudn't buy into the perception that SS amp MUST be cheaper by universal law?

 

It's a PRECEPTION...a false one. Just because companies DO IT...doesn't mean that's the ONLY way.

 

Anyway....lol at you. You proved my point by arguing with me. I can't stop laughing. Out loud.

[carvinlegacy99]

I've never minded good solid state tones, i had a peavey supreme XL that sounded pretty good, the trace elliot mk1 tramp head that i had was seriously killer and the other guitarist in my band flirted with randalls for a while. I think that the massive amount of mega {censored} ss amps is what people obviously think about when the term gets used, stuff like the line6 spider, crate flexwave series and all those horrible practice combos. Theres always been good ss gear about though, i've always liked the Tech21 Trademark 60, the Award Session amps and old Trace Elliots.

 

 

This is the right answer. A good player, with good speakers, and a nice recording setup can make plenty of (good) solid states sound really nice. I bet Lance Keltner could make a Marshall 8100 head sound that nice as well, or a tech 21, or some of the peavey transtube amps, or...

[DennisTheMenace]

If the ss amp sounds as good as tubes...what's the diff? It's like saying a bolt on should be a lot less than a glued neck. WHY? Becuase it's cheaper to make? Because it sucks more? No. Any good quality instrument (ANYTHING really) has costs associated with it. You are buying into the "SS MUST be cheaper"...because that's the way companies have MADE them. They don't put the same effort and quality into it that the recognized "good" tube amp makers do. Looks like we FINALLY have one that does (Pearce/Poly-tone/etc excepted).....and you're so casually discarding because it ain't "cheap"? Odd logic!

+1

I like to see new affordable good solid state amps. In comparison to Pearce and Pritchard the Retro Wreck looks like a one trick pony to me. But I think it's a good one.

[tech21man]

Like others have said , the amp sounds great , but $1k solid state head is ridiculous. You can pick from a HEAP of great used tube amps for that kind of money. I dont care what theyre putting into that amp , if theyre selling it for $1k , they are making a TON of profit. Seems crazy to me that we have companies out there that are turning out great sounding tube amps for $400- $700 and now weve got companies making .......... Solid state boutique amps ?????

 

 

Boutique is an idiot word. But let us not start if you got boutiqued or not. People are already talking about the axe-fx as a boutique modeler...

 

You seem to forget many things.

 

And amps cost is not only in the components. Plus I don't really believe that based on "top notch" component value there is an amp that actually justifies its tag price, especially the "boutique" ones. Where is the vomit smiley?

 

It is like, you say hey steve asshole! (jobs) you did make a new OS for the new iphone but yeah its component cost is limited. I will only pay for the cost of the paper box with cool graphics the cost of the printer and ink that you used to print the data code etc...

 

But the working hours some put in a product are also to be accounted for. The design has to be paid for. If the end product is so good that people will buy it, then great. If not you see how much it went for to reach an on-line shop on clearance. Tube amps are almost non evolutionary. What is the latest trend? How cheap but good they can be made in china? There are preamp tubes and power tubes, the way they work is almost the same for years and the ways the manufacturers work with them is also stable. What did soldano do except of one preamp and mating it with various power amps anyway?

 

 

Seeing bugeras go for 250 euros for a three channel high gain amp with 120 watts, loops, metal footswitches big transformers etc, then what is the point in all of this. They do break but they do give a hint about how REALLY low the cost is. I remember a post of an electrical engineer saying that he laughed with every amp manufacturer for what they are charging. That every tube amp design can be made for 600-800$ with parts and man hours involved and the cost be at normal levels. Then I remembered that fat bastards have to live through endorsements so there is xtra cost!!!

 

Is dumbles 19750 euros better in components? Oh yeah {censored} the gear page.net!

 

So I would choose solid state over tube all day if

 

it sounded good (money no object really).

had the feature I wanted

was easier on transport (usually is) and maintenance (is) and parts/cost (is)...

Had greater versatility (usually do)...Tube amps piss me off in the sense that a great fender twin needs specific speakers, cab, power amp design etc that do not perform great for other types of sounds...Same with a framus cobra. Maybe a beast and allow good cleans, crunch and high gain but you ain't gonna seem them in an AC/DC or (I hope not) a metallica cover band.

 

 

 

If this guy achieves it and sells for 1K then good for him!!! Does his amp cost 250$ in parts? Even better for him. But if I want it I buy it.

 

I would normally say that it is apples to oranges, try and play metal with a dumble etc but this maker actually wants his fake apples (solid state) to sound like much expensive apples (really expensive "boutique" damn my stomach amps). His risk, his success if he does it and acquire a following that will never pay for a damn glass tube again every one or two years or so.

 

 

For me really great solid state amps that everybody wants to {censored} with at times are the ones that don't tube emulate, think JC-120 think randall (yeah of course because of dimebag!) ampeg etc.

 

 

The fact that there is a heap of tube amps that retail or cost used for 700$ is really irrelevant. I bet that from all of them there is one, two at the most that I would really like to buy (personally speaking) and would not be tottaly satisfied with anyway. No I never liked marshalls and in europe they can be had for dirt cheap. I never liked peavey classics, mesa rectos, most fenders etc. All of them are almost not good for the stuff I like to play. I guess it goes for other people too.

[thefyn]

I didn't think it sounded that good.

 

Sounds like a lot of the high mids were choked out to make it sound smoky.

 

Phenomenal player

[The Anomaly]

Thanks. Check out the Legend series pedals from AMT. They are true pre-amps in pedal form that are amazing.

Yeah, and they are starting to piss me off. Here I am, happy with my Tech 21 Character pedals, then I start listening to the AMT's . . .

[Agreed]

Great player, great sounding amp, I don't have any use for it at all but neat idea and well executed.

 

I don't get the hate for solid state, though. There have been good solid state amps for a really long time. Just because the power section doesn't have the voltage swing of a tube power amp doesn't mean it sucks.

[RUExp?]

I think it sounds great and it's just the kind of amp head I would love to get.

[Ron Burgandy]

I didn't think it sounded that good. Sounds like a lot of the high mids were choked out to make it sound smoky. Phenomenal player

 

 

That's what I'm saying. It doesn't sound bad... but there are a ton of amps that don't sound bad. I'm looking for that tiny percentage that sound great.

[ShizzelDizzel]

I'd say the big cost is R & D. Some guy didn't wake up one day and have this design in his head and poof..... it was done. It could have been in the works for a year so think of all that time that has to be recoup'd. That goes for anything really.

[MalcolmTex]

Ibanez has a new head coming out that is basically a Tube Screamer front end.

[Nerine]

I think sandy vaginas will be the result of this thread.

[Das Booty]

analog is still digital at some level. sooo.... all I hear is 10010101011100

 

 

So by your logic, tube amps utilize analog circuitry, therefore all you hear in a tube amp is 10010101011100 also?

 

Analog is a continuously variable signal

Digital uses two different fixed levels (5V and 0V)

 

So if you are still hearing 1's and 0's through analog circuitry, check your hearing.

 

You fail.

[ConcreteVamphyr]

Cool! Good analog rocks. I have my Behringer Vintager in my Sig because I love it, and use it.( its a trademark 10 ripoff, with xlr out, loop, speaker out, 30 watts)
It kicks ass. It's my always plugged in living room amp. Everyone that's heard it cant beleive its not tube.

At $100 new........ go analog!

I'll never give up mee tubes, but its a great, light combo to throw in the car on a whim.....

[Rameumptom]

 

So by your logic, tube amps utilize analog circuitry, therefore all you hear in a tube amp is 10010101011100 also? Analog is a continuously variable signal Digital uses two different fixed levels (5V and 0V) So if you are still hearing 1's and 0's through analog circuitry, check your hearing. You fail.

 

 

you don't really get it do you.

[silverfacechamp]

I think sandy vaginas will be the result of this thread.

 

 

Yep. Pretty much this.

[mike moriarty]

Tube amps are garbage.