Is Suicide Wrong, Is it the ultimate act of Selfishness?

[charveldan]

Suicide is the Ultimate act of control, most people who do it don't care how others will be affected.

[Nick H]

People commit suicide because they feel lonely and miserable beyond ever getting better. And honestly if youre that miserable and you really cant get better, why keep living? A lot of people in these situations dont have families or close friends or anyone for that matter, so I dont understand how it would be considered selfish.

[fretless]

my opinion is that of the way wrong crowd , however mental illness or manic depression can consume a person and drive them over the edge .I am for "assisted suicide" for lack of a better term , though , we do it for our pets when they are old and failing we should be able to do it for our loved ones if they choose as well .

[Stevetemp]

Personally I think all things are done for selfish reasons, whether one chooses to admit it or not. Of course suicide is a selfish act..but I see nothing wrong with being selfish in many situations, this being one of them.

 

 

It's no wonder you have depression. If *EVERYTHING* you do is only for your self.

[-Assy-]

It's no wonder you have depression. If *EVERYTHING* you do is only for your self.

[Stevetemp]

hey everybody, heres my opin-- *tires screech* reverse out of thread slowly....

 

 

Very brave of you.

 

Are you afraid of giving your opinion? Don't have one? Afraid of the ensuing argument?

 

Of course...in the end, it won't really matter right? Nobody listens, no one changes any minds. We all just want to be the loudest rightest person.

 

However...discussion is what these boards are for. For better or worse. And maybe...something somebody says, maybe one little word or phrase, could effect someone...maybe even positively. Just talking and unloading may help someone.

 

I used to think suicide was for losers. Then, someone I thought very highly of did it. He had SO much going for him. People LIKED him. To this day I don't understand, but I guess it's not for me to understand. I miss him very much...but he doesn't have to worry about the aftermath.

[Stevetemp]

 

What? Dont' be so coy....maybe if you actually SAY the problem, I can correct it.

 

For me...sure...I do a lot of things for myself. But one of the greatest reasons TO live is doing something for someone else. For example. children. The sacrifices made are EXTREMELY difficult, sometimes. Now...if you call THAT "selfish"...fine. I stand corrected.

[yanktar]

One friend was dying of lung cancer and it was eating his brain. Last time we talked he was still cognizant but losing his memory and knew it and told me both long and short term were going. He was single, and he shot himself two days later. Many years later, while dying of lung cancer as well, my dad refused any and all treatment other than palliative pain relief. Dad was not willing to prolong his suffering but, by refusing anything but pain relief he knowingly hastened his death. How different were these two men? Not very. Neither was willing to live a life that wasn't on his own terms.

 

But I think many here agree that someone suffering with a terminal disease that will only get worse who commits suicide does not fall into the same category as emotionally caused suicide, anymore than a solder hurling himself on a grenade to protect his fellows is a "suicide", though in fact it is.

 

I've only known a couple of people who killed themselves in despair. My grandfather's partner drove off a bridge when the Crash wiped them out. And I found out recently an acquaintance with a long history of mental illness committed suicide about 4 years ago. Sad. 35 years ago I had found her cute, sexy and funny, but we never got together. Later her illness took off and led to some terrible things happening due to her delusions, but by then I was far, far away.

 

I know the Japanese have a very different concept of suicide, and, at one time, so did many Europeans (If you were caught absconding with your club's funds shooting yourself was your only recourse).

 

But in our society, if you are not suffering from a terminal disease with no relief, suicide is the ultimate indicator of mental illness, and the failure of the mental health system.

[DeadNight Warrior]

Its the way he did it, there are some other details I left out, like mailing letters to people threatening to kill himself etc. But my own experiences are different I had a mental breakdown when I was 26 and came very close the bottom myself, I am a lot stronger for it now though.

But again, if he's gone mad, what might seem selfish to a "normal" person might seem like something else entirely to him. Judging the morality of actions by someone who is suffering severe mental illness against "normal" standards is somewhat misguided and pointless.



I've also suffered depression for many years, and still do now. Have been very close to ending it before, and can think back and remember just how utterly insane my thoughts were at those times. Luckily I guess I wasn't quite far enough down that hole, but I imagine it'll happen one day. I'd gone several years without any problems, thinking I'd found my own way to deal with things. Changed certain things to make life better, do things differently, think differently, etc. Was all good. Then late-ish just last year, out of nowhere and for no apparent reason... brain turned inside out again. Not quite as bad as it was at its worst in previous years, but it certainly was an unpleasant surprise.

Also learned my boss doesn't like being told to, "Eat a dick."

[skunky_funk]

Everyone should check out Jason Becker.

[-Assy-]

Everyone should check out Jason Becker.

 

 

I heard he had long hair in the 80s

[Neilrocks25]

It's no wonder you have depression. If *EVERYTHING* you do is only for your self.

 

 

Its a hell of a lot more complicated than that. I have had a lot of experience with this.

[Neilrocks25]

But again, if he's gone mad, what might seem selfish to a "normal" person might seem like something else entirely to him. Judging the morality of actions by someone who is suffering severe mental illness against "normal" standards is somewhat misguided and pointless. I've also suffered depression for many years, and still do now. Have been very close to ending it before, and can think back and remember just how utterly insane my thoughts were at those times. Luckily I guess I wasn't quite far enough down that hole, but I imagine it'll happen one day. I'd gone several years without any problems, thinking I'd found my own way to deal with things. Changed certain things to make life better, do things differently, think differently, etc. Was all good. Then late-ish just last year, out of nowhere and for no apparent reason... brain turned inside out again. Not quite as bad as it was at its worst in previous years, but it certainly was an unpleasant surprise. Also learned my boss doesn't like being told to, "Eat a dick."

Yeah I nearly put my father in hospital and put a bread knife through my leg, when I finally snapped. I am so not proud of this and this is the first time I have admitted it in public. but i still think the ultimate act of suicide is selfish.
More so after having to go with my ex in an ambulance and seeing her stomach pumped after she took a load of pills and tried to beat the hell out of me.

[gdwill2u]

The religion I most identify with (catholic) says it is. They go further and say that you will go to hell for committing self murder.

I do not think this is always true.

My thinking may be confused but I think that people with imminent death issues who are in great pain should have the option. It is not really suicide it is a loving act of kindness.

I would never judge anyone for making this complex decision. I would only extend my sincerest support and in my heart I would say but for the grace of God that could be me. I do have enough catholic fear in MY soul to probably never allow myself the comfort of suicide no matter how mush I was suffering.

God bless anybody who's life has become so unbearable as to resort to suicide, they do not need judgment but out compassion and love.

[Neilrocks25]

 

The religion I most identify with (catholic) says it is. They go further and say that you will go to hell for committing self murder. I do not think this is always true. My thinking may be confused but I think that people with imminent death issues who are in great pain should have the option. It is not really suicide it is a loving act of kindness. I would never judge anyone for making this complex decision. I would only extend my sincerest support and in my heart I would say but for the grace of God that could be me. I do have enough catholic fear in MY soul to probably never allow myself the comfort of suicide no matter how mush I was suffering. God bless anybody who's life has become so unbearable as to resort to suicide, they do not need judgment but out compassion and love.

 

 

I am an atheist, but that was a nice and honest post.

[DeadNight Warrior]

 

Yeah I nearly put my father in hospital and put a bread knife through my leg, when I finally snapped. I am so not proud of this and this is the first time I have admitted it in public. but i still think the ultimate act of suicide is selfish. More so after having to go with my ex in an ambulance and seeing her stomach pumped after she took a load of pills and tried to beat the hell out of me.

 

 

But how do for example you call someone selfish for killing themself if their severely broken mind had them 100% convinced that staying alive was the selfish thing to do? That the longer they put it off, the worse off everyone around them would be, and that suicide was the only good thing to do.

 

You're judging them by a standard that pretty much makes no sense to apply. Your view on what is selfish doesn't necessarily apply in the mind of someone whose brain is twisted by mental illness.

[Stevetemp]

 

Its a hell of a lot more complicated than that. I have had a lot of experience with this.

 

 

I understand. I didn't mean for it to be all-encompassing. I do think it's a big part of why some people feel life worthwhile. Volunteering at hospitals and animal shelters. A reason to live...not for yourself. It's VERY easy for even a healthy person to wonder WTF we are doing here, why things are wrong, why we can't change some things. We all need a reason to be.

 

Of course I understand mental and chemical problems (for example) can interfere with reasoning.

[Soundstorm]

 

It's your life. You have the right to die however you want. If you leave behind people that depend on you, you're an asshole.

 

 

 

This sums it up for me.

 

A few years back one of my best friends killed himself. Took his savings, went across the country stopping at major cities and partying for three weeks, went to the grand canyon, actually taking pictures of all this and mailing them to his brother (suicide note included). He finally made it to the desert where he shot himself. It took the park rangers almost a month to find his body, so honestly we all thought he had maybe faked his own suicide in order to leave his family and start a new life (this is exactly what his dad did to their family when he was a kid). The horrible part was that he had a 2 year old and a 6 year old. The 6 year old (now 10 or so) actually blames the mother for Mark killing himself. What a {censored}ed up situation. It will have a ripple effect on the lives of everyone that loved him and the people around them as well.

 

Bottom line for me is that it was unexcusable. Get help, get on meds, electroshock therapy, whatever it takes before you basically throw your kids out in the cold.

[Neilrocks25]

 

But how do for example you call someone selfish for killing themself if their severely broken mind had them 100% convinced that staying alive was the selfish thing to do? That the longer they put it off, the worse off everyone around them would be, and that suicide was the only good thing to do. You're judging them by a standard that pretty much makes no sense to apply. Your view on what is selfish doesn't necessarily apply in the mind of someone whose brain is twisted by mental illness.

 

 

Because I was there myself, I lost it completely and wanted to die hence why I put a knife through my leg (I was aiming for my stomach) but I went and got help, and there is help out there, you just have to get out there and do it.

I think it is selfish in the fact that some one has to mop up after you go, whether family or the people that clean up your body. It will always effect someone and I think for that reason it is a self centered act. Don't get me wrong I understand it, maybe better than most, but my experience proved to me it is a cop out a weak way of dealing with things. the best way is to go and living prove to yourself you can make it.. Far more rewarding.

[DeadNight Warrior]

I understand. I didn't mean for it to be all-encompassing. I do think it's a big part of why some people feel life worthwhile. Volunteering at hospitals and animal shelters. A reason to live...not for yourself. It's VERY easy for even a healthy person to wonder WTF we are doing here, why things are wrong, why we can't change some things. We all need a reason to be. Of course I understand mental and chemical problems (for example) can interfere with reasoning.

 

You could easily enough suggest that someone doing volunteer work is still doing it for selfish reasons. They help people because it makes them feel better, or gives them a sense of purpose or whatever. It might give a good result for others in the end, but ultimately there is a self-gain in the end.

[charveldan]

Want to screw-up your kids & family for life, kill yourself.

[this is paul]

 

Want to screw-up your kids & family for life, kill yourself.

 

 

Good morning captain obvious.

[NeloAngelo]

 

Suicide, is it immoral, sin, selfish, is it "wrong". If so, then why, if not, then why. Discuss.

 

double edged sword.

killing yourself hurts those who love you, selfish to them.

but forcing someone to live when they want nothing, enjoy nothing, and can't comprehend how people can live in the same world they live in is selfish as well.

 

but then there's something that makes you not want to do it.

for example, i have been severely depressed all my life. i was classified as severely emotionally disturbed at a young age, socially inept, just leaving the house scared the {censored} out of me. i wanted to die from a young age and tried several times but couldn't finish the job. i kept thinking how much it would hurt my mom if i did and that stopped me. fast forward 20 years and here i am, still having the same issues, still wanting to die, but i don't care what pain i leave behind. and i still can't finish the job. so i live a tortuous existence hidden away from the world. people i talk to about it keep trying to talk me into staying, but they have no reason when i ask why. then when it finally comes down to it, it's because they don't want to have to know someone who died.

 

i give myself reasons to kill myself, but for some reason i can't. and my life just gets increasingly {censored}tier every day.

 

and if i killed myself today, no one would know until the neighbors started complaining about the smell.

[Stevetemp]

You could easily enough suggest that someone doing volunteer work is still doing it for selfish reasons. They help people because it makes them feel better, or gives them a sense of purpose or whatever. It might give a good result for others in the end, but ultimately there is a self-gain in the end.

 

Well I said as much in an earlier post. If we want to redefine "unselfish act"....or I suppose take it completely out of the vernacular...so be it. What a sad society we live in. Truly. When one can't even perform an "unselfish" act without being called selfish.

 

What have we become? No such thing as "unselfishness".

[charveldan]

Good morning captain obvious.

I've dated a woman recently who's hubby was a Firefighter and killed himself 13 years ago, i've done everything i know how to do to try to help, but she wont'/can't release herself from the enormous guilt, her 2 sons are the same way, we are still friends but i can't seem to help.