I forgot how bad digital amp offerings used to be...

[MadKeithV]

 

Can't be done with just a (very) detailed eq photographed of a miced signal.

 

 

Actually the technology has advanced a bit - now there's dynamic convolution as well, which is more like a movie than a single picture.

[tech21man]

Cool info. I would imagine it to be the next step. And perhaps a real important one for the modelling section!

[HKSblade1]

 

I did that with my mesa studio preamp and also noticed that if you add a power amp sim from revalver it de fizzes and allows you even more tailoring. And a better sound, closer to a real amp. BUT, some IRs are captured with power amp distortion/colouring in high levels and they also state the power tube type of the amp. And in fact, the preamp sounded better with those without the power amp sim engaged. I'd like to see this capability in more modellers. The pod HD has it, axe-fx also. The zoom g3 has it. Digitech doesn't do squat...where the {censored} are the new GSP lines damn it?

 

 

I know a bunch of dudes that were waiting for something new from Digitech. When the company announced a move to more iOS {censored} that group said {censored} it and bought the Pod HD500.

[13bats]

 

Actually the technology has advanced a bit - now there's dynamic convolution as well, which is more like a movie than a single picture.

 

 

yes thats the latest move, to dynamic instead of static cab models. If you read the Fractal forums most people will tell you that while the amp model is important the cab model is the more important part of the equation.

Truthfully there are 2 parts to modelling matching your fav tube stack. the "in the room sound" and the live or recorded sound ,once they match those (and it's getting close) you will see less people choosing to lug around huge stacks.

 

To me as of right now at high jamming volume .nothing sounds and feels just like an amp, it close but there is a 3d quality and body that just has not been emulated yet

 

Do I think it will get to the point that software can mimic a Bogner Uberschall etc .Yes, for sure.

Even Reinhold himself states that it will be done

[Badside]

Speaking of which, why is there no amp version of the HD?

SS 75W 1X12 combo with the brains of HD300 for 600$-ish, I'd be on my way to the store right now.

 

I don't care for Line6's tube offerings, but I played the {censored} out of my Flextone back in the days (every tube amp in my price range back then was crap)

[13bats]

 

Speaking of which, why is there no amp version of the HD? SS 75W 1X12 combo with the brains of HD300 for 600$-ish, I'd be on my way to the store right now. I don't care for Line6's tube offerings, but I played the {censored} out of my Flextone back in the days (every tube amp in my price range back then was crap)

 

 

I am not clarivoyant but my gut tells me you will be very happy in the next 60 days when they announce Spider V with the new HD modelling ..I think the spider valve will be finished now that they have move to HD and DT series

[Badside]

 

I am not clarivoyant but my gut tells me you will be very happy in the next 60 days when they announce Spider V with the new HD modelling ..I think the spider valve will be finished now that they have move to HD and DT series

 

 

I've tried the HD500 in a tube amp before and to me it sounded like the same amp with various different pedals in front. I'd rather have an all-in-one package with a powerful SS amp. I'll never retire my half-stack, but I get tired of lugging it around to rehearsals.

[13bats]

 

I've tried the HD500 in a tube amp before and to me it sounded like the same amp with various different pedals in front. I'd rather have an all-in-one package with a powerful SS amp. I'll never retire my half-stack, but I get tired of lugging it around to rehearsals.

 

 

The cool thing is the combo of dt25/50 and the HD pods .either alone are kinda meh for me but together they are pretty sweet of course you are getting tubes when you turn them up.It is pretty ingenious though how they have integrated the system and allow you to use just a pre only into the dt power amp.

 

I am VERY surprised L6 does not have the Dt 25/50 power amp as it would go great with all the other modellers as well the Fractal Eleven they could make some money there.

 

I think your all in one HD with solid state is just around the corner Line6 always starts the hype around Aug and releases for back to school

 

if i had to bet SPIDER V HD ads are a the printers now

[LaXu]

 

Truthfully there are 2 parts to modelling matching your fav tube stack. the "in the room sound" and the live or recorded sound ,once they match those (and it's getting close) you will see less people choosing to lug around huge stacks.

 

 

This actually only depends on what is being used to amplify the sound. I find that with studio monitors etc you get that recorded sound out of the Axe-Fx, whereas with my Atomic FR combo the sound is just like what an amp in the room sounds like. Don't know why, but that big PA-style speaker plus tweeter in the Atomic and its hifi-style tube poweramp make all the difference.

[13bats]

 

This actually only depends on what is being used to amplify the sound. I find that with studio monitors etc you get that recorded sound out of the Axe-Fx, whereas with my Atomic FR combo the sound is just like what an amp in the room sounds like. Don't know why, but that big PA-style speaker plus tweeter in the Atomic and its hifi-style tube poweramp make all the difference.

 

 

which is essentially what Line6 is doing with the DT series . take a digital preamp and run it into tubes like the Atomic, they went a step further by enlisting Bogner to add some features but same thing i think.

 

The issue is both the Atomic and DT are still using the Tubes to get the in the room tone...

 

Thats what they have to figure out is how to get a DT with the different topology to be emulated without tubes and more importantly have it open up and get bigger and more dynamic as the volume goes up .instead of sounding just like a flat linear response SS power amp

[Kap'n]

 

I really hope this is true. The Yamaha DG amps were really easy to use and considering they came out in around 1997, they were way ahead of the competition for years. I'll instantly buy one if they come up with something that sounds about as good as my Axe-Fx but is much easier to use.

 

 

I don't know if I would buy one immediately, but I thought the Yamaha DG stuff was great, and intuitive to use - and loads better than the MagicStomp. I look forward to the next generation.

[Miter Gauge]

 

Honestly, even back in the late 1990s and early 2000s there were good modeling amps like the Yamaha DG amps or Hughes & Kettner Zentera. The problem was that they were quite expensive and Line6 had much, much better marketing. The L6 AX2, Flextones etc were just laughably bad by comparison but sold by a bucketload due to lower price and being in every guitar mag and store. Then again there were also lots of unwieldy tube amps too, that only delivered the goods when cranked and that was way louder than anything less than stadiums should have. Also pretty much all low wattage tube amps were horrible.

 

 

These were great amps. I loved the clean and slightly crunchy tones in these amps. They had a design flaw however, when you cranked them up the little flat buttons would rattle like crazy.

[grunge782]

lol wow, this thread is actually civil. I thought people were just going to try and troll/{censored} all over it

[soilent]

 

I still think modelers are only usefull for recording. Live they just sound like a bunch of glorified pedals

 

 

I actually think my live Axe Fx tones are better than my recorded Axe Fx tones. At least, they're easier for me to dial in anyway. Recording guitars is hard.

[vbshredder]

 

This is key, MOST guitarists wouldn't know if they couldn't see what you were using. Plus, you, and the guitarists out there are the only ones who would even care, and even then, those audience guitarists are thinking about how much better they sound on their rig, so, that leaves you.

 

 

Truth. Once you get up there and start playing....Can audience hear you? Ok...Are you playing well? OK...not much else matters

[Badside]

Truth. Once you get up there and start playing....Can audience hear you? Ok...Are you playing well? OK...not much else matters

 

I've been coming here for over 10 years, this argument has been used with validity for as long as I can remember, even when digital modelling was... much crappier than today.

I've seen really nice sounding bands using a POD DI'ed into the board, I've seen band with top-tier gear sound like crap.

 

The point is really to play what feels good to you, and to me it's a tube amp... so far

 

But people should stop going crazy over versatility and matching tones perfectly. The cover bands I've seen didn't bother with that. Versatility is in your hand. Does your drummer changes his snare for every song?

[tech21man]

Not only that, but for me, changing from a JCM 800 patch to a rectifier patch to a vox patch for some songs almost required adusting volume eq's, even the soundman adusted it a bit every time...(used a pod X3). I don't want that. I ideally want 3-4 distinct sounds (super clean, crunchy, heavy and solo) and perfectly balanced with the band not to satisfy my guitar hero ambitions. Most digital amps, indeed offer that and perfectly blended effects and is no small feature if you take in mind that to have a three channel amp that does that good and implement effects to change with one tap per sound usually costs a lot!!! And can't be seriously crancked easily.

[LaXu]

 

which is essentially what Line6 is doing with the DT series . take a digital preamp and run it into tubes like the Atomic, they went a step further by enlisting Bogner to add some features but same thing i think. The issue is both the Atomic and DT are still using the Tubes to get the in the room tone... Thats what they have to figure out is how to get a DT with the different topology to be emulated without tubes and more importantly have it open up and get bigger and more dynamic as the volume goes up .instead of sounding just like a flat linear response SS power amp

 

 

It's not the tubes. The only reason why the Atomic FR uses tubes is because that's what the designers knew how to do well. I've tried simply running music to it and the tube amp doesn't color the sound at all. In fact it's nothing like guitar tube poweramps, it's more like a hifi amp. I think the difference is the much bigger, more sensitive speakers compared to studio monitors. In any case, a PA style cab would be better for the "in the room" sound than studio monitors.

[teemuk]

So, essentially, it's a worthless purchase then because any run-of-the-mill solid-state power amplifier can replace it?

[Valtiel]

lol wow, this thread is actually civil. I thought people were just going to try and troll/{censored} all over it

 

Was going to post exactly this. HCAF is growing up so fast. *tear*

[LaXu]

 

So, essentially, it's a worthless purchase then because any run-of-the-mill solid-state power amplifier can replace it?

 

 

Not really. There's still the PA style speakers and it seems many people are trying other FRFR solutions and not getting the exact results they want. I don't know how they compare but I do know that my Axe-Fx Standard sounds great thru the Atomic FR. But yeah, I think it could just as well have a solid state poweramp. You could get the passive cab and pair it with a PA poweramp I suppose. Would probably cost more than the combo though...

[SteinbergerHack]

 

To me as of right now at high jamming volume .nothing sounds and feels just like an amp, it close but there is a 3d quality and body that just has not been emulated yet Do I think it will get to the point that software can mimic a Bogner Uberschall etc .Yes, for sure. Even Reinhold himself states that it will be done

 

Yeah, maybe....but I just can't see a day that it's as easy to get a REALLY good sound - fast - with a digital amp as it is today with something like an XTC. Plug, play, enjoy; repeat as necessary. In situations where tone really isn't part of the expectation (like a pit band gig), modellers fit the bill well.....but not so much when you just want to plug in and play with a good basic tone.

[peavey_impact]

 

Yeah, maybe....but I just can't see a day that it's as easy to get a REALLY good sound - fast - with a digital amp as it is today with something like an XTC. Plug, play, enjoy; repeat as necessary..

 

 

Try the Yamaha THR10. It's not a stage amp, but you can get killer tones instantly with that lil guy.

[JimiRules]

 

But I still can't get over the days of using a flextone II and being lost in the mix.

 

 

I remember those days. I bought a Flextone II XL back in 2000 thinking it was great having all these different amps, cabs, and effects built right in. I cringe now knowing what I paid for it back then. For what I paid for the amp and the footswitch I could have bought a brand new DSL.