Thats it, I'm done caring about politics...

[madryan]

The problem now is that the right wing has convinced many that the most powerless and marginalized among us are actually to blame for much of the ills plaguing our country.

 

That's just evil.

[Ovid9]

The problem now is that the right wing has convinced many that the most powerless and marginalized among us are actually to blame for much of the ills plaguing our country. That's just evil.

 

Everyone has an equal shot. Various social factors play no part and are just {censored} excuses. If the poor would stop being poor their (and our) problems would be solved!

 

 

 

 

 

[jlb32]

Without bringing back alot of manufacturing jobs the US will continue to sink IMO. The US government seems to think differently. So called skilled versus more unskilled labor really doesn't matter these days. Corporations are starting to outsource more skilled labor also and that will only continue to rise. Years ago a college degree meant something. Unemployment is hitting the skilled labor sector just as hard as the more unskilled sector now it seems. The jobs are disappearing.

[rushtallica]

Everyone has an equal shot. Various social factors play no part and are just {censored} excuses. If the poor would stop being poor their (and our) problems would be solved!

 

lol

[Spaced Out Ace]

Without bringing back alot of manufacturing jobs the US will continue to sink IMO. The US government seems to think differently. So called skilled versus more unskilled labor really doesn't matter these days. Corporations are starting to outsource more skilled labor also and that will only continue to rise. Years ago a college degree meant something. Unemployment is hitting the skilled labor sector just as hard as the more unskilled sector now it seems. The jobs are disappearing.

 

Good God... is that intelligence I smell?

 

Oh wait, I forgot... I'm supposed to be a mindless idiot and troll with "DEY TUK OOR JERBZZZ".

[***1776***]

Its also 'funny' how people think there life sucks or is not as good, etc because some rich guy down the street robbed or stole or did something wrong



This mentality has creeped into society more and more recently and is flat out wrong

[Ovid9]

 

Its also 'funny' how people think there life sucks or is not as good, etc because some rich guy down the street robbed or stole or did something wrong This mentality has creeped into society more and more recently and is flat out wrong

 

 

wat?

[marshallnoise]

 

The problem now is that the right wing has convinced many that the most powerless and marginalized among us are actually to blame for much of the ills plaguing our country. That's just evil.

 

 

Who exactly are you calling marginalized and powerless? This should be good.

[rushtallica]

 

Without bringing back alot of manufacturing jobs the US will continue to sink IMO. The US government seems to think differently. So called skilled versus more unskilled labor really doesn't matter these days. Corporations are starting to outsource more skilled labor also and that will only continue to rise. Years ago a college degree meant something. Unemployment is hitting the skilled labor sector just as hard as the more unskilled sector now it seems. The jobs are disappearing.

 

 

IMO it's about using up the environment/resources. There's a limited amount of it as well as energy sources that can safely & affordably be obtained, and it's that much more difficult to do much processing/manufacturing with safety restrictions and measures in place. The amount of abuse and strain the environment can take is finite, though, and even though it sounds pretty hippie-ish to say, at some point the current modern/industrial way of living will be over.

 

It's possible that part of it may be the fault of the oil corporations who won't invest much more heavily into researching alternate energy sources, but even then it's possible that no other combination of means could fully replace oil as a fuel as well as such a highly used manufacturing material.

[marshallnoise]

 

Its also 'funny' how people think there life sucks or is not as good, etc because some rich guy down the street robbed or stole or did something wrong This mentality has creeped into society more and more recently and is flat out wrong

 

 

We used to be a nation of people who aspired to be like the successful guy. Now we are "convinced" that the successful guy stole from us because the media told us so.

[marshallnoise]

 

IMO it's about using up the environment/resources. There's a limited amount of it as well as energy sources that can safely & affordably be obtained, and it's that much more difficult to do much processing/manufacturing with safety restrictions and measures in place. The amount of abuse and strain the environment can take is finite, though, and even though it sounds pretty hippie-ish to say, at some point the current modern/industrial way of living will be over. It's possible that part of it may be the fault of the oil corporations who won't invest much more heavily into researching alternate energy sources, but even then i t's possible that no other combination of means could fully replace oil as a fuel as well as such a highly used manufacturing material.

 

 

This is not a possibility, it is a fact.

 

On top of that, if there truly was a legitimate shortage, we would be forced to change and believe me, if the oil companies couldn't get any more oil out of the ground, they would be looking for the next best thing. Remember, they want to make a profit. Not selling something does not make a profit.

 

This is all such basic economics folks.

[rushtallica]

 

Its also 'funny' how people think there life sucks or is not as good, etc because some rich guy down the street robbed or stole or did something wrong This mentality has creeped into society more and more recently and is flat out wrong

 

 

Sorry if I might be misunderstanding. Just in case, a guy stealing someone's hubcaps down the street, for example, definitely sucks for the victim, but in the case of some of the very top abusers, criminal actions such as some perpetrate have economy-wrecking potential and have already caused clear damage to the economy.

[rushtallica]

 

This is not a possibility, it is a fact. On top of that, if there truly was a legitimate shortage, we would be forced to change and believe me, if the oil companies couldn't get any more oil out of the ground, they would be looking for the next best thing. Remember, they want to make a profit. Not selling something does not make a profit. This is all such basic economics folks.

 

 

This isn't intended to be any type of evidence and is only heresay, obviously, but I worked with someone who had previously worked in research for an oil company (I believe it may have been Shell) who told me that peak oil was definitely a reality and was amazed that the changes that started taking place regarding fuel economy and conservation had been basically forgotten or ignored. There's no shortage now, but I believe there's a strong chance it will occur in the coming years. Even if I'm wrong, I feel the possibilit is something to be concerned about because of how much chaos would ensue in entire countries that fully rely on oil/transportation for nearly everything.

[HKSblade1]

 

Why do you expect companies to stick around and remain competitive in a world market while at the same time forcing them to raise the price of labor and employee benefits. If China can manufacture {censored} cheaper than the US, then they should be doing it. Period.

 

 

I don't expect them to. I'm just defining the majority of the problem and it's source. Look at every town in the US where manufacturing has left. There is disparity over what to do for uneducated persons. Manufacturing was there to fill a roughly 50% divide between those who can and cannot be educated. Fact is, you can't educate everyone and not all can get a {censored}ing degree, so what is left for them? Service jobs? But are there enough service jobs? {censored} no!

 

So instead we watched companies relocate and hire millions and millions of asian workers in many regions. Our spending dollars supported that growth and their infrastructure fro decades, while at the same time, watching our infrastructure in those municipalities fall apart and become a gaping hole in those communities they left.

 

It wasn't only the manufacturer or retail company that was greedy, it was the consumer that pushed those markets overseas because they bought into a more disposable industry. This is NOT going to change anytime soon.

 

So what do we do with those who cannot be educated? Where will they work? Well, today most of them don't. They also know there is no means for them to be producers. {censored}ing govt supported this.

 

Successful nations can be global so long as there is no divide between what they import vs export in manufactured goods.

 

Should the USA in turn require huge taxes like a VAT on purchases? Or should we charge an additional tax on companies who now pay {censored} on the products they import? Should the consumer wake up one day and say WTF are we doing to ourselves?

 

None of that will happen imo, because none of us want to share in the blame of our own losses. It's always govt or always the greedy company. There are mega billion dollar profit companies today that seem to always have our full support. We watched those industries disappear from where they once thrived here, and never {censored}ing questioned their motives. Had we stopped supporting them and our govt's supporting their means to relocate and have mega profit retail markets here, things may have been different. The point is, when it comes to manufacturing and providing an industry for that, consumerism is as accountable as are the others in which the finger is pointed.

[***1776***]

Sorry if I might be misunderstanding. Just in case, a guy stealing someone's hubcaps down the street, for example, definitely sucks for the victim, but in the case of some of the very top abusers, criminal actions such as some perpetrate have economy-wrecking potential and have already caused clear damage to the economy.

On the occasions it happens i wont disagree, prosecute those who did wrong, no issue from me i agree 100%!


The newer thought/idea i hear more and more in recent years that almost EVERY rich or succesfull person stepped on someone, inherited it, or didnt work hard - I cant believe when i hear people and some politicians spout this {censored}, makes my stomach turn.


Again my life doesnt suck because of a succesfull person in another neighborhood

[madryan]

Come on... You can't have eyes and ears and not see how the scales are tilted for the rich and influential in this country.

Couple of examples...

The Mortgage interest write-off is bigger than all the social programs for poor people put together. But the rhetoric you hear from the right targets the poor folks because they're leeches sucking up all the money.

The difference between white collar and blue collar crime. Steal millions on Wall Street and go to jail for 18 months in a minimum security prison. Steal a carton of smokes and $50 from the register of a convenience store and get 10 years in the state pen.

Then there's capital gains tax rates. Wages are taxed at the prevailing tax rate for your bracket but capital gains income is taxed at a maximum of 15% because poor and even middle class people don't have capital gains income. Typically only the wealthy can avail themselves of that luxury due to having disposable income to invest.

Then there's the whole class of people nobody gives a {censored} about. Mentally ill people, people who suffer from addiction, people who are disabled for other reasons, etc.

But somehow they're the reason our economy is tanking if you watch Fox News.

[Ovid9]

 

I don't expect them to. I'm just defining the majority of the problem and it's source. Look at every town in the US where manufacturing has left. There is disparity over what to do for uneducated persons. Manufacturing was there to fill a roughly 50% divide between those who can and cannot be educated. Fact is, you can't educate everyone and not all can get a {censored}ing degree, so what is left for them? Service jobs? But are there enough service jobs? {censored} no! So instead we watched companies relocate and hire millions and millions of asian workers in many regions. Our spending dollars supported that growth and their infrastructure fro decades, while at the same time, watching our infrastructure in those municipalities fall apart and become a gaping hole in those communities they left. It wasn't only the manufacturer or retail company that was greedy, it was the consumer that pushed those markets overseas because they bought into a more disposable industry. This is NOT going to change anytime soon. So what do we do with those who cannot be educated? Where will they work? Well, today most of them don't. They also know there is no means for them to be producers. {censored}ing govt supported this. Successful nations can be global so long as there is no divide between what they import vs export in manufactured goods. Should the USA in turn require huge taxes like a VAT on purchases? Or should we charge an additional tax on companies who now pay {censored} on the products they import? Should the consumer wake up one day and say WTF are we doing to ourselves? None of that will happen imo, because none of us want to share in the blame of our own losses. It's always govt or always the greedy company. There are mega billion dollar profit companies today that seem to always have our full support. We watched those industries disappear from where they once thrived here, and never {censored}ing questioned their motives. Had we stopped supported them and our govt's suposrt their means to relocate and have mega profit retail markets here, things may have been different. The point is, when it comes to manufacturing and providing an industry for that, consumerism is as accountable as are the others behind the eight ball.

 

 

Mr Blade, I don't agree with you on some stuff, but you just summed up a majority of the problems facing the nation right now. And nobody has ANY good answers for it because honestly, the big companies don't give a {censored} about the US in a global economy as long as their are markets elsewhere and people want to buy cheap {censored} that doesn't last over stuff that costs more but they might only have to buy once in 30 years. (Why am I on my 2nd coffee pot since I got married 5 years ago? There isn't that much to break but it did break! WTF???)

[***1776***]

Yea because the economy of America was so good and healthy in the 1970's with the Ford and Jimmy Carter adminstration having such great economies, yeaaaa right Your post sums it up very well actually, we used to be a nation of work for things, THE MIDDLE CLASS use to have some modest toys, but smaller houses (2000 sq ft) and even handing things down to the next generation. Flashfoward some 25-35 years later . . . . . . . . . . . .and now we want 5000 Sq Ft "McMansions' homes with many goodies with 55' Plasma TV's, 3 cars, 2 IPODs, IPADS, all the latest electronic gadgets, 4 vacations with much of it on the credit card, and we want someone else to cut our grass 'cheap'. -- BTW you dont think that "cheap labor" is affecting our own middle class? Think about all the labor-types, welders, floor guys, roofers, etc being squeezed/undercut by the 'cheap labor' Its about time we look in the mirror as a society and people as well, we want all this shyt around us and we want it cheap and on the Credit Card! -- Actions meet consequenses PS - Sadly there are alot of factors in why things are the way they are today

This is what i wrote before about ALL of us in this country no matter who you are or what your beliefs


We all have to look in the mirror, HKSblade im with ya 100% true

[Booker]

We used to be a nation of people who aspired to be like the successful guy. Now we are "convinced" that the successful guy stole from us because the media told us so.

 

Wait, I thought it was the poor stealing everything from us through our taxes and welfare? So what is it?

 

Or is it now the media's fault? Maybe the liberals... what about the commies...

 

[Ovid9]

Wait, I thought it was the poor stealing everything from us through our taxes and welfare? So what is it?

 

Yes.

[Booker]

Yes.

 

I think I get it now. It's everyone else's fault but yours/mine. Everyone else is lazy/thieving/whatever meme is happening today.

[***1776***]

Come on... You can't have eyes and ears and not see how the scales are tilted for the rich and influential in this country. Couple of examples... The Mortgage interest write-off is bigger than all the social programs for poor people put together. But the rhetoric you hear from the right targets the poor folks because they're leeches sucking up all the money. The difference between white collar and blue collar crime. Steal millions on Wall Street and go to jail for 18 months in a minimum security prison. Steal a carton of smokes and $50 from the register of a convenience store and get 10 years in the state pen. Then there's capital gains tax rates. Wages are taxed at the prevailing tax rate for your bracket but capital gains income is taxed at a maximum of 15% because poor and even middle class people don't have capital gains income. Typically only the wealthy can avail themselves of that luxury due to having disposable income to invest. Then there's the whole class of people nobody gives a {censored} about. Mentally ill people, people who suffer from addiction, people who are disabled for other reasons, etc. But somehow they're the reason our economy is tanking if you watch Fox News.

Oooo without a doubt the rich have things in their favor 4 sure and if YESSS you 'steal or rob' you better go big, dont steal a $150 from the local bodega, go big bitches!


Why are you complaining about mortgage interest writeoff? should the people who own homes (thus pay the taxes for schools, roads, etc) bitch about paying 10K 15K 20K a year in taxes? The writeoff bothers you MORE than the actual amount of taxes being collected? 4 real? Some people pay more in taxe$ than the home is worth lol


On the 15% tax rate, was that $$ taxed BEFORE invested in the stock market? did that person pay taxes on that $$ before they invested in the market? Of course it was taxed, 15% is additional taxes on top of that, no? -- What if you lose on your investment then what?


The tax loss allowed as a writeoff (accounting purposes) is minimal and NEVER adds up to your actual losses or possible risk

[marshallnoise]

Wait, I thought it was the poor stealing everything from us through our taxes and welfare? So what is it? Or is it now the media's fault? Maybe the liberals... what about the commies...

 

What you wrote, in the context of what you quoted, makes no sense. Almost completely unrelated.

 

Congratulations.

[HKSblade1]

 

Mr Blade, I don't agree with you on some stuff, but you just summed up a majority of the problems facing the nation right now. And nobody has ANY good answers for it because honestly, the big companies don't give a {censored} about the US in a global economy as long as their are markets elsewhere and people want to buy cheap {censored} that doesn't last over stuff that costs more but they might only have to buy once in 30 years. (Why am I on my 2nd coffee pot since I got married 5 years ago? There isn't that much to break but it did break! WTF???)

 

 

Ohh hell yes they do. That is why they fight legislation over any import taxation, and yet instead wish for incentives for more profit schemes. IF the consumer did not support those reasons, those companies would have no argument.

 

That's what we helped create in our spending habits. We forced this situation upon us. Those manufacturing means are now lost. All we can do is in the future make it so domestic manufacturers can compete. Problem is, they can't.

 

Imagine Apple with it's 1.6 million employees (avg) overseas had to pay the same medical, dental, on top of wages and other benefits, and add to that have to be within our EPA restrictions and OSHA regulations.

 

There is no {censored}ing way on this earth they would come close to their net worth today. Over seas they pay little wages/benefits, pay no real taxes to import their products, and have no regulatory demands on their processes.

 

Funny part is, the US manufacturing companies less supported by the consumer that do remain, are being shelled with commentary by consumers that they don't provide enough for those workers given what they are told by the general media.

 

IRONIC?

 

It was the youth of the returning WWII people that rebuilt this nation. It was those generations prideful of what they produced that made it grow and prosper, and thus be a model for other nations to mimic. I just wonder if other nations will be as stupid in the long term as our nation has proved to be.

[Ovid9]

Ohh hell yes they do. That is why they fight legislation over any import taxation and wish to instead wish for incentives for more profit schemes. IF the consumer did not support those reasons, those companies would have no argument. That's what we helped create in our spending habits. We forced this situation upon us. Those manufacturing means are now lost. All we can do is in the future make it so domestic manufacturers can compete. Problem is, they can't. Imagine Apple with it's 1.6 million employees (avg) overseas had to pay the same medical, dental, on top of wages and other benefits, and add to that have to be within our EPA restrictions and OSHA regulations. There is no {censored}ing way on this earth they would come close to their net worth today. Over seas the pay little wages/benefits, pay no real taxes to import their products, and have no regulatory demands on their processes. Funny part is, the US manufacturing companies less supported by the consumer that do remain, are being shelled with commentary by consumers that they don't provide enough for those workers given what they are told by the general media. IRONIC? It was the youth of the returning WWII people that rebuilt this nation. It was those generations prideful of what they produced that made it grow and prosper, and thus be a model for other nations to mimic. I just wonder if other nations will be as stupid in the long term as our nation has proved to be.

 

Probably.

 

And yes, they do. I oversimplified. But they aren't tied to America being the economic engine it is anymore. Other markets are opening up and we're consumerizing them as fast as we can too.