Members Stevetemp Posted September 17, 2012 Members Share Posted September 17, 2012 ) that could be used in those types of situations. You hit on so much with so little words. Wish I could do the same Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members marshallnoise Posted September 17, 2012 Members Share Posted September 17, 2012 Life isn't fair. Never has been. Hence, the liberal's attempts (everlasting) to bring heaven to Earth. It will never happen. If righting wrongs comes at the cost of committing wrongs on other people, no wrong was ever righted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Stevetemp Posted September 17, 2012 Members Share Posted September 17, 2012 Life isn't fair. Never has been. Hence, the liberal's attempts (everlasting) to bring heaven to Earth. It will never happen. If righting wrongs comes at the cost of committing wrongs on other people, no wrong was ever righted. As I said earlier...I work for small company...and this year we've been talking politics. Everyone already has their mind made up and sometimes the "talking" gets a little out of hand. But one thing I realized is that the liberals are idealists. hey seem to take it that the government will always do good, that government can run things effectively, and that everyone can be taken care of to perfect satisfaction. I totally do not get that at all...as my experience is nearly the opposite. The "conservatives" wonder how we pay for it all. And a bit of distrust that "The Government" looks out for the best interests of ALL the people. I made a political cartoon with a huge bundle on the back of a "businessman" that was standing on the back of a "little person". I did it to demonstrate the massive over-regulation on businesses is really a burden on the people, not a business. The one girl said "so business is built on the backs of people?". That is what she saw. I said...well yeah duh...that's not a new thing. And I am DAMN glad I have gotten the opportunity to build THIS business on my back! She doesn't get where her bread is buttered! But she also doesn't get that the more regulation..the more the companies pass on to the consumer. But...my original point was....the philosophical differences in the two sides was very interesting. Idealistic versus realistic. Full unadulterated trust versus mistrust. Interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members NeloAngelo Posted September 17, 2012 Members Share Posted September 17, 2012 Life isn't fair. Never has been. Hence, the liberal's attempts (everlasting) to bring heaven to Earth. It will never happen. If righting wrongs comes at the cost of committing wrongs on other people, no wrong was ever righted. ho-ho-ho-hold on. operation iraqi freedom was a republican idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members marshallnoise Posted September 17, 2012 Members Share Posted September 17, 2012 ho-ho-ho-hold on.operation iraqi freedom was a republican idea. A neo-con's (Progressive republican; oxymoron, but they exist) idea. A classical liberal would never invade Iraq like we did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Stevetemp Posted September 17, 2012 Members Share Posted September 17, 2012 ho-ho-ho-hold on.operation iraqi freedom was a republican idea. Funded by Congress including Liberals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members HKSblade1 Posted September 17, 2012 Members Share Posted September 17, 2012 Absolutely, personal choice and accountability is important but the problem facing everyone now is that while once you could buy a place, support you family and live comfortably on a single parent income and that parent need only graduate high school, it's now changed so that to get ahead in most markets that have a real economy you need two college educated parents working full time to raise a family and buy a house.How do you impart values when everyone's working all the time? For most of this problem ? It's a result again of choices. Those two income families work to provide that suburban 2600sq ft home, 2 newer cars, and load the house full of {censored} (maxing credit cards to do so), while their parents did just fine in a more urban, 1200 sq ft bungalow or ranch. having one car and paying cash for nearly everything. People have choices between what is in their best long term interest, vs what is not. I found this out myself when my former employer could not compete and closed its doors in 09. Many lifestyle changes would soon follow. I don't think those purchasers requiring two incomes ever consider the consequences of losing one of their incomes. What you describe is more for suburban areas. You will never have two educated parents in the more urban centers. Political necessity as well as local leadership will do all they can to maintain those levels of poverty and entitlement which I believe is the major source of that leadership, and those lobbies ability to exist. Over the years, those leaders promise more and deliver enough trinkets to keep that base happy. It doesn't take much. $20 more a month in food stamps can be enough to say "I did this for you" so keep me in power. An extra 26 weeks of UE benefits can change a persons need to provide, to that of being provided for externally. Our politicians know this and thus depend on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members NeloAngelo Posted September 17, 2012 Members Share Posted September 17, 2012 Funded by Congress including Liberals. but championed by republicans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members madryan Posted September 17, 2012 Members Share Posted September 17, 2012 For most of this problem ? It's a result again of choices. Those two income families work to provide that suburban 2600sq ft home, 2 newer cars, and load the house full of {censored} (maxing credit cards to do so), while their parents did just fine in a more urban, 1200 sq ft bungalow or ranch. having one car and paying cash for nearly everything.People have choices between what is in their best long term interest, vs what is not. I found this out myself when my former employer could not compete and closed its doors in 09. Many lifestyle changes would soon follow.I don't think those purchasers requiring two incomes ever consider the consequences of losing one of their incomes. What you describe is more for suburban areas. You will never have two educated parents in the more urban centers. Political necessity as well as local leadership will do all they can to maintain those levels of poverty and entitlement which I believe is the major source of that leadership, and those lobbies ability to exist. Over the years, those leaders promise more and deliver enough trinkets to keep that base happy. It doesn't take much. $20 more a month in food stamps can be enough to say "I did this for you" so keep me in power. An extra 26 weeks of UE benefits can change a persons need to provide, to that of being provided for externally. Our politicians know this and thus depend on it. Out here on the west coast I bought a 1500 square foot house before the market went totally ape {censored} and it still cost me well north of $200k. Add all the county and city taxes and the interest on the note and my payment required just my wife's income every month just for the payment. Luckily my cars were paid off and we didn't have cable or a big TV or most of the other crap some folks feel they need. Some parts of the country you can get by living cheap. Not on the east or west coasts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members madryan Posted September 17, 2012 Members Share Posted September 17, 2012 Funded by Congress including Liberals. There aren't many (or any) liberals in the congress these days. At best we have slightly left leaning centrists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members marshallnoise Posted September 17, 2012 Members Share Posted September 17, 2012 There aren't many (or any) liberals in the congress these days. At best we have slightly left leaning centrists. What the {censored} is this {censored}? You have got to be kidding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ***1776*** Posted September 17, 2012 Members Share Posted September 17, 2012 There aren't many (or any) liberals in the congress these days. At best we have slightly left leaning centrists. You mean there are not many moderate blue dog democrats, they are a dying breed Sadly the Nancy Pelosi wing of the party is getting more and more power and influence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members madryan Posted September 17, 2012 Members Share Posted September 17, 2012 What the {censored} is this {censored}? You have got to be kidding. Well, compared to you the only folks to the right are the Nazi's, the Taliban, and Ayn Rand so I can see how your perspective could be skewed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members marshallnoise Posted September 17, 2012 Members Share Posted September 17, 2012 Well, compared to you the only folks to the right are the Nazi's, the Taliban, and Ayn Rand so I can see how your perspective could be skewed. Cause Sheila Jackson, Nancy Pelosi, Jesse Jackson Jr. and the countless other nuts on the left are "centrist," right? I just don't get what it takes to be a liberal to you and not be considered a centrist. If you want to call me farther to the right than Attila the Hun, fine. But if you think Pelosi is a centrist, then you must be to the left of Benito Mussolini. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members madryan Posted September 17, 2012 Members Share Posted September 17, 2012 Cause Sheila Jackson, Nancy Pelosi, Jesse Jackson Jr. and the countless other nuts on the left are "centrist," right? I just don't get what it takes to be a liberal to you and not be considered a centrist. If you want to call me farther to the right than Attila the Hun, fine. But if you think Pelosi is a centrist, then you must be to the left of Benito Mussolini. I said many. If you look at voting records Kucinich was one of the few real liberals. Even Pelosi talks a good game being from San Fran but she doesn't usually vote that way. I like that you think people who lean left are "nuts" though. Gives me valuable insight into how you think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Elder Things Posted September 17, 2012 Members Share Posted September 17, 2012 I feel like the rich and poor are exploiting the system and leaning on the working class. Things like insider trading and bailouts piss me the hell off. At the same time, I can't stand it when people living in better conditions than mine are sucking down welfare, or stamps, or unemployment. We held a show with a touring band from Olympia. Every member was attending a $50k/year school and on food stamps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members madryan Posted September 17, 2012 Members Share Posted September 17, 2012 I feel like the rich and poor are exploiting the system and leaning on the working class. Things like insider trading and bailouts piss me the hell off. At the same time, I can't stand it when people living in better conditions than mine are sucking down welfare, or stamps, or unemployment. We held a show with a touring band from Olympia. Every member was attending a $50k/year school and on food stamps. I know for a fact that you can't get food stamps if you're a full time student. I know this because I'm a student and a single dad working my way through college because my industry {censored} the bed. It may be different in other states and I know you can game the system because I know other students that have found a way around it but I don't feel like risking it. BTW... What school in Olympia is $50k a year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members marshallnoise Posted September 17, 2012 Members Share Posted September 17, 2012 I feel like the rich and poor are exploiting the system and leaning on the working class. Things like insider trading and bailouts piss me the hell off. At the same time, I can't stand it when people living in better conditions than mine are sucking down welfare, or stamps, or unemployment. We held a show with a touring band from Olympia. Every member was attending a $50k/year school and on food stamps. Retarded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Neilrocks25 Posted September 17, 2012 Members Share Posted September 17, 2012 I know for a fact that you can't get food stamps if you're a full time student. I know this because I'm a student and a single dad working my way through college because my industry {censored} the bed. It may be different in other states and I know you can game the system because I know other students that have found a way around it but I don't feel like risking it.BTW... What school in Olympia is $50k a year? What industry are you in? IT? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members HKSblade1 Posted September 17, 2012 Members Share Posted September 17, 2012 Out here on the west coast I bought a 1500 square foot house before the market went totally ape {censored} and it still cost me well north of $200k. Add all the county and city taxes and the interest on the note and my payment required just my wife's income every month just for the payment. Luckily my cars were paid off and we didn't have cable or a big TV or most of the other crap some folks feel they need. Some parts of the country you can get by living cheap. Not on the east or west coasts. And the reasons for that (being I relocated from Cali myself after nearly 15 years) I saw was high taxes, bull{censored} inflating of property values, etc etc. It got to the point we could barely pay our bills. My wife loved Cali, but now that she sees the southeast so much more welcoming, it was a no brainer. Her being a trauma RN made it easy for her to find work. I'm still working free lance, but have been lucky in that last year or so with the same co.. They know I'll travel as needed which I did prior, so they take advantage of that. That could change again, but the good thing is we realized we needed to simplify our living. We could have went crazy and bought a big home with a huge mtg payment but decide not to. We lost our asses on our home we sold. Took a 62k hit on our old home with less than 8 years to pay it off. What a rude awakening, but we managed to stay afloat and it's so much easier and stress free now. My mtg is less than what I paid in Cali and will be free of it in 12 years. Otoh this community is full of NE rustbelt type and Western state transplants. Already talking unions. Many of the companies these guys work for said they'd relocate if a union was established. That calmed things down a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Elder Things Posted September 17, 2012 Members Share Posted September 17, 2012 BTW... What school in Olympia is $50k a year?Evergreen. Probably an exageration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members madryan Posted September 17, 2012 Members Share Posted September 17, 2012 What industry are you in? IT? I used to write alot of code for CNC machines in an Aerospace shop. The whole industry went pear shaped and my employer cut their workforce about 60%. They also started making alot of other stuff like firearms industry stuff which has been selling good. It was a good time to get out anyway. We were switching over to Solid Works anyway and I'm not interested in working in that industry anymore. It's always feast or famine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members madryan Posted September 17, 2012 Members Share Posted September 17, 2012 And the reasons for that (being I relocated from Cali myself after nearly 15 years) I saw was high taxes, bull{censored} inflating of property values, etc etc. It got to the point we could barely pay our bills. My wife loved Cali, but now that she sees the southeast so much more welcoming, it was a no brainer. Her being a trauma RN made it easy for her to find work. I'm still working free lance, but have been lucky in that last year or so with the same co.. They know I'll travel as needed which I did prior, so they take advantage of that. That could change again, but the good thing is we realized we needed to simplify our living. We could have went crazy and bought a big home with a huge mtg payment but decide not to. We lost our asses on our home we sold. Took a 62k hit on our old home with less than 8 years to pay it off. What a rude awakening, but we managed to stay afloat and it's so much easier and stress free now. My mtg is less than what I paid in Cali and will be free of it in 12 years. Otoh this community is full of NE rustbelt type and Western state transplants. Already talking unions. Many of the companies these guys work for said they'd relocate if a union was established. That calmed things down a bit. That's smart. I can't relocate right now because I share my Son with his mom. At some point I'll be able to take him and move but now he's too young. Honestly though, I've been all over the country, and lived in alot of places in the world. I like it where I am. It's a bit more expensive but it's a great place to live and it's a great place to raise a family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Neilrocks25 Posted September 17, 2012 Members Share Posted September 17, 2012 I used to write alot of code for CNC machines in an Aerospace shop. The whole industry went pear shaped and my employer cut their workforce about 60%. They also started making alot of other stuff like firearms industry stuff which has been selling good. It was a good time to get out anyway. We were switching over to Solid Works anyway and I'm not interested in working in that industry anymore. It's always feast or famine. OK interesting, I jumped out of IT to go to Japan, but I am itching to get back into it. I am just hoping it builds up again as my trade was dying due to the economy. I am a specialist in VoIP for trading in investment banks. I miss it now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members madryan Posted September 17, 2012 Members Share Posted September 17, 2012 OK interesting, I jumped out of IT to go to Japan, but I am itching to get back into it. I am just hoping it builds up again as my trade was dying due to the economy. I am a specialist in VoIP for trading in investment banks. I miss it now. Some of the stuff I did was alot of fun. I remember this job we had that was a recurring deal. Every 6 months or so we'd get an order for 500 or so of these things. Neat little part that I figured out how to machine in two operations out of bar stock using a CNC indexer in a 3-axis VMC we had. There were 17 different index points and some really obscure angles and I ended up writing the bulk of the code manually because the cam software couldn't deal with it properly. Essentially I took what would be an incredibly complex 3D job and turned it into something one of the older machines could run. The first run we got a good part from the machine took 11min. I tweaked the code till we could knock one out in just under 6. I made my boss alot of money with that job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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