Thats it, I'm done caring about politics...

[Booker]

 

Canada, not the US. You live there, we live here, we see it. Eye witness.

 

 

Bull{censored}.

[Spaced Out Ace]

 

Bull{censored}.

 

 

Bull{censored}.

[Booker]

 

Bull{censored}.

 

 

I agree.

[Booker]

You aren't very intelligent considering you can't comprehend. Reading comprehension... hao dat werk!?

 

 

I suggest you look at the post above, and then apply it liberally to yourself.

[Spaced Out Ace]

I suggest you look at the post above, and then apply it liberally to yourself.

 

Okay, I'll apply bull{censored} liberally to this thread, since my comment in your above post is me saying "bull{censored}".

[marshallnoise]

Bull{censored}.

[Spaced Out Ace]

Bull{censored}.

 

Everything is. It's all bull{censored}!

[madryan]

 

Agree with all. I just get tired of folks whining about "outsourcing jerbs" when they have no problem buying luxury items they can only afford becasue they're made overseas. Here's yet another way to look at it.... By simple math, folks get rich becasue they generate more than they consume, they have to...otherwise they wouldn't be "rich". The goal should be to keep those people doing that, and make it easier for others to be the same way by letting them keep their money to the greatest extent possible. Because a magical thing happens...when more people are producing, (as opposed to just consuming), they provide more net revenue to the coffers. We saw the phenomena in the late '90s when many folks were making $$ in the stock market. An increase in the volume of cap gains tax payers gave us a surplus. during the .com bubble.

 

 

There's a tipping point at which people can start capitalizing on multiple income streams. It's different depending on where they live and what their budget requirements are but at some point they have enough to invest and thus generate another income stream. That's the tipping point and the key to generating "wealth" that the poor folks in the country will never get to because nobody gets rich being a wage slave.

 

The problem we're facing now is the supply of jobs which afforded this opportunity has been shrinking over the last 30 years while demand for said jobs has continued to climb.

 

It's gotten so bad that where once a reasonably good living could be made on a single income, now it requires two incomes. When I was married and owned a house it wasn't a big house. It was a regular subdivision house with a tiny yard and was the cheapest house I could get that wasn't a mobile home. I owned one old 26in. TV and didn't have cable. Both my cars were paid for and all that. It still took both me and the wifey working pretty good jobs to get by. Every single couple I know is a two income household.

 

That's the legacy of the destruction of the middle class. It's been going on since Reagan took office.

[Spaced Out Ace]

 

It's been going on since Reagan took office.

 

 

Was not aware of that. Add Reagan to the list of Bush, Clinton, Bush and Obama.

[HKSblade1]

Was not aware of that. Add Reagan to the list of Bush, Clinton, Bush and Obama.

 

 

I blame G Ford. Add him to the list

[Spaced Out Ace]

 

I blame G Ford. Add him to the list

 

 

What about Tricky Dick and Jimmy Carter?

[HKSblade1]

 

What about Tricky Dick and Jimmy Carter?

 

 

+LB Johnson, and yeah Carter was one of the worse.

[Spaced Out Ace]

 

+LB Johnson

 

 

How could I forget him...

[Wayne2]

 

There's a tipping point at which people can start capitalizing on multiple income streams. It's different depending on where they live and what their budget requirements are but at some point they have enough to invest and thus generate another income stream. That's the tipping point and the key to generating "wealth" that the poor folks in the country will never get to because nobody gets rich being a wage slave.

 

 

That and nobody ever teaches them about money. They learn it all from TV and the giant marketing machine that's been built to keep everyone working and buying in a vicious cycle.

 

Thus you get anyone who manages to save a few dollars will blow it on superfluous crap like swimming pools or cars or fancy weddings or vacations or premium cell phone plans, then go on the news bitching about how they can't save and the 1% is keeping them down because the government doesn't pay for every single other expense they have that isn't luxury-item related.

 

Meanwhile we build more and more giant casinos and say it's good for the economy. It's not really malice, just idiocy on a national scale.

[marshallnoise]

 

That and nobody ever teaches them about money. They learn it all from TV and the giant marketing machine that's been built to keep everyone working and buying in a vicious cycle. Thus you get anyone who manages to save a few dollars will blow it on superfluous crap like swimming pools or cars or fancy weddings or vacations or premium cell phone plans, then go on the news bitching about how they can't save and the 1% is keeping them down because the government doesn't pay for every single other expense they have that isn't luxury-item related. Meanwhile we build more and more giant casinos and say it's good for the economy. It's not really malice, just idiocy on a national scale.

 

 

You act as if people do not have a choice. If every thing comes down between either yes, or no, then all of a sudden, there are no more problems like this one to solve. If people can say no to material possessions, and they most certainly can but choose not to, then there is nothing to fix.

[rushtallica]

 

That and nobody ever teaches them about money. They learn it all from TV and the giant marketing machine that's been built to keep everyone working and buying in a vicious cycle . Thus you get anyone who manages to save a few dollars will blow it on superfluous crap like swimming pools or cars or fancy weddings or vacations or premium cell phone plans, then go on the news bitching about how they can't save and the 1% is keeping them down because the government doesn't pay for every single other expense they have that isn't luxury-item related. Meanwhile we build more and more giant casinos and say it's good for the economy. It's not really malice, just idiocy on a national scale.

 

 

Obviously everyone is responsible for his/her own spending, but who owns the media, marketing machine, etc.?

[***1776***]

There's a tipping point at which people can start capitalizing on multiple income streams. It's different depending on where they live and what their budget requirements are but at some point they have enough to invest and thus generate another income stream. That's the tipping point and the key to generating "wealth" that the poor folks in the country will never get to because nobody gets rich being a wage slave. The problem we're facing now is the supply of jobs which afforded this opportunity has been shrinking over the last 30 years while demand for said jobs has continued to climb. It's gotten so bad that where once a reasonably good living could be made on a single income, now it requires two incomes. When I was married and owned a house it wasn't a big house. It was a regular subdivision house with a tiny yard and was the cheapest house I could get that wasn't a mobile home. I owned one old 26in. TV and didn't have cable. Both my cars were paid for and all that. It still took both me and the wifey working pretty good jobs to get by. Every single couple I know is a two income household. That's the legacy of the destruction of the middle class. It's been going on since Reagan took office.

Yea because the economy of America was so good and healthy in the 1970's with the Ford and Jimmy Carter adminstration having such great economies, yeaaaa right


Your post sums it up very well actually, we used to be a nation of work for things, THE MIDDLE CLASS use to have some modest toys, but smaller houses (2000 sq ft) and even handing things down to the next generation. Flashfoward some 25-35 years later
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.and now we want 5000 Sq Ft "McMansions' homes with many goodies with 55' Plasma TV's, 3 cars, 2 IPODs, IPADS, all the latest electronic gadgets, 4 vacations with much of it on the credit card, and we want someone else to cut our grass 'cheap'. -- BTW you dont think that "cheap labor" is affecting our own middle class? Think about all the labor-types, welders, floor guys, roofers, etc being squeezed/undercut by the 'cheap labor'



Its about time we look in the mirror as a society and people as well, we want all this shyt around us and we want it cheap and on the Credit Card! -- Actions meet consequenses



PS - Sadly there are alot of factors in why things are the way they are today

[rushtallica]

 

You act as if people do not have a choice. If every thing comes down between either yes, or no, then all of a sudden, there are no more problems like this one to solve. If people can say no to material possessions, and they most certainly can but choose not to, then there is nothing to fix.

 

 

There is a good point about media and marketing, though. If that wasn't in place, telling people which angles on politics, spending, etc., to believe in rather than being much more neutral, things would be much different in the country. Yes, there is freedom to do many great things, but those with money/power determine what people see every time they turn on a television, radio, ads, etc... It's powerful because people are naturally gullible and swayed into certain behaviors. I fully believe that if it weren't so, many wars would never have been fought.

[marshallnoise]

 

There is a good point about media and marketing, though. If that wasn't in place, telling people which angles on politics, spending, etc., to believe in rather than being much more neutral, things would be much different in the country. Yes, there is freedom to do many great things, but those with money/power determine what people see every time they turn on a television, radio, ads, etc... It's powerful because people are naturally gullible and swayed into certain behaviors. I fully believe that if it weren't so, many wars would never have been fought.

 

 

No! Absolutely not. I refuse to believe that the will power of men to go out and accomplish amazing things (create the Atom Bomb, design mass production, operate on a beating heart, etc) can be subverted through simple advertisements. Blaming media is just finding a patsy for the lack of man's desire to weigh the consequences of his own actions.

 

Using your logic, spoons would be banned because it causes weight gain. So should all video games because they lead to kids shooting each other. Oh, and remove cars because they kill dons of people every year too.

 

{censored} in life happens and but of the time a man saying "no" can prevent a lot of the {censored} from happening.

[HRM]

I love it when people think they're somehow smarter than advertisers. There's a reason those {censored}s are paid what they're paid.

[rushtallica]

No! Absolutely not. I refuse to believe that the will power of men to go out and accomplish amazing things (create the Atom Bomb, design mass production, operate on a beating heart, etc) can be subverted through simple advertisements. Blaming media is just finding a patsy for the lack of man's desire to weigh the consequences of his own actions. Using your logic, spoons would be banned because it causes weight gain. So should all video games because they lead to kids shooting each other. Oh, and remove cars because they kill dons of people every year too. {censored} in life happens and but of the time a man saying "no" can prevent a lot of the {censored} from happening.

 

lol, that's not my logic but an interesting strawman. I'm not implying that everyone is completely gullible, and I fully realize much good is being done even as our and many other countries are in decline. But I do believe the masses at large are pretty gullible, and when I say gullible I say it with the understanding that there are many shades of how gullible a person can be.

 

If people weren't gullible, many wouldn't be so easily caught up into following many various fads and trying to own what's popular to own at any paricular time. Windbags such as Limbaugh and his left wing counterparts, televangelists, etc., with plenty of devout listeners/followers who parrot everything they hear wouldn't be so prominent. It's obviously only my opinion, but I believe people suddenly freed from gullibility would also likely drop religion.

[Stevetemp]

 

Romney and Obama can go suck eggs. Ron Paul got screwed, and I doubt anyone's gonna vote for a 3rd party, so Gary Johnson's out as well. We're pretty much {censored}ed. Enjoy what's left of America, then go screw over Canaduhh.

 

 

The Media did their damndest to make Ron Paul look like an idiot. We have multiple parties.... Green, New Scientific, Libertarian...a whole host of options that the media shuts down.

 

Why would the media only want two parties?

 

And why are "we" foolish enough to allow it to happen?

[Stevetemp]

I think all this is rather complicated...as in a lot of stuff tossed in and mixed up. One thing for us to keep in mind is:

 

Poorest 5% of Americans are Richer than 68% of World's Inhabitants

 

 

So what does that mean? Well...not too sure...make of it what you will. I certainly do see a lot of fat "poor" people...hah hah?

 

I think it's startling how fast we are loosing ground to the other countries (see link)! Our middle class does seem to be shrinking...not entirely Obama's fault but he approves. But is it our standards are higher? Lower comparable wage? (than say the 50's 60's).

 

What Obama HAS done is rev up class warfare...at least imho. My wife attended one of his rallies (St Pete/Seminole Florida)...and the biggest shouts were when he mentioned welfare and medicaid...go figure. There was very little talk of fixing our debt and budget...very little talk of peace in the world. But alot of "when do you send mah check?". She learned more about Obama from the people around her then from Obama.

 

With the Feds freely printing money.......200,000/year IS "middle class", and will only get worse. My wife and I make about well under 100,000... live well....but fairly frugally. I only just a few months ago replaced my 20 year old Mitsubishi console TV with a flatscreen.

[***1776***]

I think all this is rather complicated...as in a lot of stuff tossed in and mixed up. One thing for us to keep in mind is: Poorest 5% of Americans are Richer than 68% of World's Inhabitants So what does that mean? Well...not too sure...make of it what you will. I certainly do see a lot of fat "poor" people...hah hah? I think it's startling how fast we are loosing ground to the other countries (see link)! Our middle class does seem to be shrinking...not entirely Obama's fault but he approves. But is it our standards are higher? Lower comparable wage? (than say the 50's 60's). What Obama HAS done is rev up class warfare...at least imho. My wife attended one of his rallies (St Pete/Seminole Florida)...and the biggest shouts were when he mentioned welfare and medicaid...go figure. There was very little talk of fixing our debt and budget...very little talk of peace in the world. But alot of "when do you send mah check?". She learned more about Obama from the people around her then from Obama. With the Feds freely printing money.......200,000/year IS "middle class", and will only get worse. My wife and I make about well under 100,000... live well....but fairly frugally. I only just a few months ago replaced my 20 year old Mitsubishi console TV with a flatscreen.

I agree, plus you have a media in this country that is not always 100% honest, (im not talking about talk shows, opinion airheads) im talking actual journalism/reporters, there is a agenda in many stories/headlines


Check post #92 (mine ) i remember as a kid my grandparents still had plastic on the couch, today that would be laughed at (well maybe even then) but you get the idea -- we are much more 'GIMME GIMME I WANT I WANT I NEED IT' mentality today


We have to look in the mirror as a society as well, we really do

[Gary Cohn]

 

There's a tipping point at which people can start capitalizing on multiple income streams. It's different depending on where they live and what their budget requirements are but at some point they have enough to invest and thus generate another income stream. That's the tipping point and the key to generating "wealth" that the poor folks in the country will never get to because nobody gets rich being a wage slave. The problem we're facing now is the supply of jobs which afforded this opportunity has been shrinking over the last 30 years while demand for said jobs has continued to climb. It's gotten so bad that where once a reasonably good living could be made on a single income, now it requires two incomes. When I was married and owned a house it wasn't a big house. It was a regular subdivision house with a tiny yard and was the cheapest house I could get that wasn't a mobile home. I owned one old 26in. TV and didn't have cable. Both my cars were paid for and all that. It still took both me and the wifey working pretty good jobs to get by. Every single couple I know is a two income household. That's the legacy of the destruction of the middle class. It's been going on since Reagan took office.

 

 

Sometimes people just gotta stop relying on the big evil corporations to support them (that they talk so badly about) and start exploring self-employment.