Thats it, I'm done caring about politics...

[stratocaster202]

My general perspective on politics:

 

I would love for free market capitalism to work. But it doesn't. Why? Because people are cunts. Once they get money, they want more of it. They will screw everyone else over to get as much money as possible. Look at turn of the century America: massive monopolies controlling everything. It wasn't healthy for anyone, except the Vanderbilts, the Carneiges etc.

 

So you need a way of controlling the tendency to be a ****.

 

Capitalism doesn't offer it. It's all about being a ****.

 

That's why Republicanism isn't going to work. And this current batch of Neo-Con twats don't even adhere to the basic principles of small government, states rights, free market etc.

 

When it comes to welfare in America:

 

Look at which states draw the most on government welfare, they are all Red States.

Paul Ryan took bailout money. There is nothing wrong with welfare as a support network. Much of this thread is people debating the relative difficulties of living on various incomes. Yes, you could get another job. But when everyone is looking for another job, people are going to lose out. Especially with all the rich cunts moving jobs overseas to make more money.

 

Capitalism fails. You need government to provide a safety net, to prevent people from being at the mercy of other cunts.

 

Are there {censored}heads on both sides? Totally. There are people who abuse the welfare system, who don't look for jobs but draw on social security and food stamps. They're cunts too.

 

But capitalism doesn't stop these people from being cunts. It just turns them into poorer, less healthy, angrier cunts.

 

In short: we wouldn't need government if people weren't cunts. But they are, so we do. Unfortunately, the people in government are cunts too. So we're {censored}ed.

[Booker]

 

My general perspective on politics: I would love for free market capitalism to work. But it doesn't. Why? Because people are cunts. Once they get money, they want more of it. They will screw everyone else over to get as much money as possible. Look at turn of the century America: massive monopolies controlling everything. It wasn't healthy for anyone, except the Vanderbilts, the Carneiges etc. So you need a way of controlling the tendency to be a ****. Capitalism doesn't offer it. It's all about being a ****. That's why Republicanism isn't going to work. And this current batch of Neo-Con twats don't even adhere to the basic principles of small government, states rights, free market etc. When it comes to welfare in America: Look at which states draw the most on government welfare, they are all Red States. Paul Ryan took bailout money. There is nothing wrong with welfare as a support network. Much of this thread is people debating the relative difficulties of living on various incomes. Yes, you could get another job. But when everyone is looking for another job, people are going to lose out. Especially with all the rich cunts moving jobs overseas to make more money. Capitalism fails. You need government to provide a safety net, to prevent people from being at the mercy of other cunts. Are there {censored}heads on both sides? Totally. There are people who abuse the welfare system, who don't look for jobs but draw on social security and food stamps. They're cunts too. But capitalism doesn't stop these people from being cunts. It just turns them into poorer, less healthy, angrier cunts. In short: we wouldn't need government if people weren't cunts. But they are, so we do. Unfortunately, the people in government are cunts too. So we're {censored}ed.

 

 

Well Said.

[Gary Cohn]

My general perspective on politics: I would love for free market capitalism to work. But it doesn't. Why? Because people are cunts. Once they get money, they want more of it. They will screw everyone else over to get as much money as possible. Look at turn of the century America: massive monopolies controlling everything. It wasn't healthy for anyone, except the Vanderbilts, the Carneiges etc. So you need a way of controlling the tendency to be a ****. Capitalism doesn't offer it. It's all about being a ****. That's why Republicanism isn't going to work. And this current batch of Neo-Con twats don't even adhere to the basic principles of small government, states rights, free market etc. When it comes to welfare in America: Look at which states draw the most on government welfare, they are all Red States. Paul Ryan took bailout money. There is nothing wrong with welfare as a support network. Much of this thread is people debating the relative difficulties of living on various incomes. Yes, you could get another job. But when everyone is looking for another job, people are going to lose out. Especially with all the rich cunts moving jobs overseas to make more money. Capitalism fails. You need government to provide a safety net, to prevent people from being at the mercy of other cunts. Are there {censored}heads on both sides? Totally. There are people who abuse the welfare system, who don't look for jobs but draw on social security and food stamps. They're cunts too. But capitalism doesn't stop these people from being cunts. It just turns them into poorer, less healthy, angrier cunts. In short: we wouldn't need government if people weren't cunts. But they are, so we do. Unfortunately, the people in government are cunts too. So we're {censored}ed.

 

While I agree in some instances, it's also all of those qualities that also allowed America to prosper beyond belief, at a rate that has probably never been matched. If America capitalism isn't your thing, there are lots of countries in the world that have differing systems. Perhaps even one with a model more appealing to you. There's no reason you have to stay here and deal with these, "cunts." Life is way too short to be so unhappy. I'd suggest finding another country to move to, that way you can have your cake AND eat it too.

 

I know the feeling, I actually enjoy America's system, but I also enjoy Sweden's. I could definitely see a move to Sweden in the future when I had kids. I'dr ather raise them in that environment than America's.

[***1776***]

Why do people still compare Scandinavian countries with 4 or 5 million people to the US? (I think Sweden has 8 million or so) we have cities with more people -- when you have that the issues are so much more complex and diverse than that of 300 million people like the USA, its not a fair comparison


I dont agree with the tax and spend way to prosperity as a nation, thats a load of bull{censored} and simply doesnt work, some of the U.S. states in the biggest fiscal trouble are of this philosophy and its ineffective..


I agree that both sides have their hand in the cookie jar and deserves blame for were we are, (absolutley) but giving any politician a checkbook is a recipe for disaster

[Stevetemp]

I also agree with strat202...on some things.

 

Problem: It sounds like strat202 wants a Big Brother government....one that takes care of every need and keeps people from being "****s"? Not gonna happen! He is simply handing over power from one hand to the other. How can you possibly regulate human selfishness? Make everyone poor?

 

We have to look at other countries to see how this works. Sweden? Greece? Spain? Germany? Will the system that works for Sweden work for a country such as The United States? Don't think so. Will the system that bankrupts Greece WORK for a country like The United States? LOL.

 

 

Ronnie is right....for all the pittfalls of the United States.....it does provide very good opportunities for success. If you are driven, smart enough, hard working enough...and yes a little bit lucky too! Just ask Obama.....what other country would he be able to do what he did...given his life? And why would he try to "fundamentally" change it?

 

People will be rich

People will be poor

People will be ****s

 

And this would change...how?

 

We are a country that gives cash to people for having babies...actually HAVE babies to get the cash. WTF.

 

Not sure how you can claim "capitalism doesn't work". What's not worked about it? Some people get rich and some don't? LOL. I happen to work for a small business....the guy is pretty well off. He doesn't pay me what he pays himself...but I am DAMN grateful, that he had the sense and smarts to build business relationships...and had the courage and balls to risk his own financial neck to start his business and have ability to hire me. Capitalism that WORKS.

[Gary Cohn]

Why do people still compare Scandinavian countries with 4 or 5 million people to the US? (I think Sweden has 8 million or so) we have cities with more people -- when you have that the issues are so much more complex and diverse than that of 300 million people like the USA, its not a fair comparison I dont agree with the tax and spend way to prosperity as a nation, thats a load of bull{censored} and simply doesnt work, some of the U.S. states in the biggest fiscal trouble are of this philosophy and its ineffective.. I agree that both sides have their hand in the cookie jar and deserves blame for were we are, (absolutley) but giving any politician a checkbook is a recipe for disaster

 

I'm not comparing. I just said when I have kids, I'd have no problem moving to Sweden and away from America instead of trying to change America to suit my needs giving {censored} all about anyone else's opinion on how a country should operate. That's my point. I love America for me. I don't for what my kids would have to be brought up in. Instead of whining and trying to change america's foundation/what it has become. I will just leave to a place already producing results I see fit for my future goals.

[Gary Cohn]

 

I also agree with strat202...on some things. Problem: It sounds like strat202 wants a Big Brother government....one that takes care of every need and keeps people from being "****s"? Not gonna happen! He is simply handing over power from one hand to the other. How can you possibly regulate human selfishness? Make everyone poor? We have to look at other countries to see how this works. Sweden? Greece? Spain? Germany? Will the system that works for Sweden work for a country such as The United States? Don't think so. Will the system that bankrupts Greece WORK for a country like The United States? LOL. Ronnie is right....for all the pittfalls of the United States.....it does provide very good opportunities for success. If you are driven, smart enough, hard working enough...and yes a little bit lucky too! Just ask Obama.....what other country would he be able to do what he did...given his life? And why would he try to "fundamentally" change it? People will be rich People will be poor People will be ****s And this would change...how? We are a country that gives cash to people for having babies...actually HAVE babies to get the cash. WTF. Not sure how you can claim "capitalism doesn't work". What's not worked about it? Some people get rich and some don't? LOL. I happen to work for a small business....the guy is pretty well off. He doesn't pay me what he pays himself...but I am DAMN grateful, that he had the sense and smarts to build business relationships...and had the courage and balls to risk his own financial neck to start his business and have ability to hire me. Capitalism that WORKS.

 

 

+1

 

If it weren't for America's system to allow nobodies to be somebody (I'll admit, I think it's way harder now than it ever was) we wouldn't be who we are. You want to own 2 cars? Go for it. A gun? Sure. A house? Absolutely. Fatty food? You know it.

 

It doesn't matter if you agree or disagree with it. It's the fact that there's nowhere else in the world that provides that kind of "freedom."

[stratocaster202]

 

I also agree with strat202...on some things. Problem: It sounds like strat202 wants a Big Brother government....one that takes care of every need and keeps people from being "****s"? Not gonna happen! He is simply handing over power from one hand to the other. How can you possibly regulate human selfishness? Make everyone poor? We have to look at other countries to see how this works. Sweden? Greece? Spain? Germany? Will the system that works for Sweden work for a country such as The United States? Don't think so. Will the system that bankrupts Greece WORK for a country like The United States? LOL. Ronnie is right....for all the pittfalls of the United States.....it does provide very good opportunities for success. If you are driven, smart enough, hard working enough...and yes a little bit lucky too! Just ask Obama.....what other country would he be able to do what he did...given his life? And why would he try to "fundamentally" change it? People will be rich People will be poor People will be ****s And this would change...how? We are a country that gives cash to people for having babies...actually HAVE babies to get the cash. WTF. Not sure how you can claim "capitalism doesn't work". What's not worked about it? Some people get rich and some don't? LOL. I happen to work for a small business....the guy is pretty well off. He doesn't pay me what he pays himself...but I am DAMN grateful, that he had the sense and smarts to build business relationships...and had the courage and balls to risk his own financial neck to start his business and have ability to hire me. Capitalism that WORKS.

 

 

You're both right. I happen to love America, except for the stagnant political system. But that I can live with. At least with a stagnant one, nothing really changes.

 

The thing I forgot to add was that I prefer to pretend that I have some way of holding said cunts accountable. If they're in government, I can vote against them. That's really just a comforting delusion in a lot of cases and I know that. And, most importantly, there are cunts everywhere, doesn't matter where you live.

 

Steve, when I say capitalism doesn't work, I mean it doesn't work in the way a lot of rightwingers claim: that a totally free market capitalist society would actually close the income gap/make the world an infinitely better place. The one thing it misses though, is external costs. You use the example of giving people cash to have babies. A baby may have no actual monetary value, but they may have value to society -what that value is is debatable. No corporation will pay you for having a baby, because they'll lose money. But government's job is to act for the benefit of society, if society needs babies, the government should encourage people to have babies.

[Gary Cohn]

 

You're both right. I happen to love America, except for the stagnant political system. But that I can live with. At least with a stagnant one, nothing really changes. The thing I forgot to add was that I prefer to pretend that I have some way of holding said cunts accountable. If they're in government, I can vote against them. That's really just a comforting delusion in a lot of cases and I know that. Steve, when I say capitalism doesn't work, I mean it doesn't work in the way a lot of rightwingers claim: that a totally free market capitalist society would actually close the income gap/make the world an infinitely better place. The one thing it misses though, is external costs. You use the example of giving people cash to have babies. A baby may have no actual monetary value, but they may have value to society -what that value is is debatable. No corporation will pay you for having a baby, because they'll lose money. But government's job is to act for the benefit of society, if society needs babies, the government should encourage people to have babies.

 

 

I think we need to stop saying "Corporation" and saying, "Public Corporations."

 

I'm filing right now for a corporation- why do I need to fall under the same {censored}ty bias and prejudice as a publicly traded one? I think lots of corporations are great, it's when stockholders who have no skin in the operation, nor care to want to learn what it takes start to {censored} it all up. What's the return? That's all they care about.

 

I care about my workers.

[hugbot]

The problem with capitalism isn't that some people are rich and some aren't.

 

The problem is with other stuff. Like for example class mobility, while some people climb the ladder and get rich, the ladder gets greased for everyone else.

 

Class mobility is real simple to measure statistically too. In a society where everyone gets a fair shake to make something of themselves then presumably there should be a big variance between the income of parents and their offspring, the more fair a society in this regard the more kids from poor families who get rich, (and ideally if you're going to claim that capitalism acts as a metric for ability then there ought to be plenty of kids from rich families who are dumbasses and end up "deservedly" poor.)

 

The USA has better class mobility than developing countries but its still significantly below norway, Australia, Canada ect.

 

 

Steve, when I say capitalism doesn't work, I mean it doesn't work in the way a lot of rightwingers claim: that a totally free market capitalist society would actually close the income gap/make the world an infinitely better place. The one thing it misses though, is external costs. You use the example of giving people cash to have babies. A baby may have no actual monetary value, but they may have value to society -what that value is is debatable. No corporation will pay you for having a baby, because they'll lose money. But government's job is to act for the benefit of society, if society needs babies, the government should encourage people to have babies.

 

 

Truth, and this is one of the things that people forget when they rail against "wasteful goverenment spending". The government has got to spend wastefully because it should spend money on stuff that improves the countries well being but that cant (or shouldn't be beholden to) profit.

[***1776***]

Crony capitalism is when we run into problems, but having a idea or entrepenueur or business model come up and develop will be because of capitalism and a place where buyers and sellers will meet (The marketplace) Capitalism will give you the best opportunity, it may not have the best result, (and provided that its a fair and honest market) but it will give you the best opportunity 4 sure


The goverment does alot of bull{censored} 'in the name of people and society' - that can be a scary things at times imo and what politicians say or use to 'sell the ideas' to the masses

[Gary Cohn]

 

Crony capitalism is when we run into problems, but having a idea or entrepenueur or business model come up and develop will be because of capitalism and a place where buyers and sellers will meet (The marketplace) Capitalism will give you the best opportunity, it may not have the best result, (and provided that its a fair and honest market) but it will give you the best opportunity 4 sure The goverment does alot of bull{censored} 'in the name of people and society' - that can be a scary things at times imo and what politicians say or use to 'sell the ideas' to the masses

 

 

I think with current lending practices, we can pretty much put that one to bed.

 

You could have a working time machine and a bank would tell you it's high risk, sorry.

 

 

 

:then turn around and give their buddies failing hunting store a line of credit:

[Stevetemp]

You're both right. I happen to love America, except for the stagnant political system. But that I can live with. At least with a stagnant one, nothing really changes. The thing I forgot to add was that I prefer to pretend that I have some way of holding said cunts accountable. If they're in government, I can vote against them. That's really just a comforting delusion in a lot of cases and I know that. Steve, when I say capitalism doesn't work, I mean it doesn't work in the way a lot of rightwingers claim: that a totally free market capitalist society would actually close the income gap/make the world an infinitely better place. The one thing it misses though, is external costs. You use the example of giving people cash to have babies. A baby may have no actual monetary value, but they may have value to society -what that value is is debatable. No corporation will pay you for having a baby, because they'll lose money. But government's job is to act for the benefit of society, if society needs babies, the government should encourage people to have babies.

 

Well...it's my opinion that, no matter what anyone says...we do NOT have a "totally free market capitalist" society. We've got government regulation up the arse. I give you required MPG as a NOT "free market". I think what most "rightwingers" understand is that if a person can prosper...and yes..."get rich", said person has the ability to provide jobs and wages to other people. I've never gotten a job from someone on welfare (not assigning any blame...I am just making a simple observation). I've usually gotten jobs from the well-off, the rich, and the evil corps. Have I myself done all the things it would take to "get rich too"? No...I have not. I've been a lazy beer drinking guitar playing video game playing ne'er do well.

 

"Big Government" not only takes a LOT of money to support...but also removes freedoms...because you know what?..."Big Government" is the MOST selfish cunts ever.

 

I posted to someone on Yahoo comments when he said :

I want to live in a kinder, gentler USA. When the dust settles, I want to feel that my government, who represents me, who is supposed to be there for me, cares as much about my well-being as I care about its well-being. It is all about us, the people who live, work, play and die on this soil. I love my country, and I want that to matter. So not only will I vote my mind and my gut, I will vote my heart too.

 

My reply:

Football fan: I for one...do not want to be loved and cared for by our government. That's not their job. That is the job of our families...communities...and churches. I want the government to do it's job...protection from foreign threats and infrastructure. Yes...there will be some regulations. Hopefully very controlled and limited. But to be coddled and held and stroked by Big Brother Government is...ickey : ) ...and will not work in the long run. Our Founding Fathers and TRUE Patriots...generally... had the right idea. And the more we stray from that, the worse it will get.

 

 

My old man told me "life is rough...." And yes it is. Government can't fix that. All it can do is hand money it collects from one person to the other. (I admit that government CAN "do good". One fellow reminded me of "OSHA". But for the most part....distrust of the Government Corporation is in order. Stealing from Social Security. Lying about Obamacare to make it "Constitutional". I refuse to think of "Government" as good for caring for me.

[Stevetemp]

You're both right. I happen to love America, except for the stagnant political system. But that I can live with. At least with a stagnant one, nothing really changes. The thing I forgot to add was that I prefer to pretend that I have some way of holding said cunts accountable. If they're in government, I can vote against them. That's really just a comforting delusion in a lot of cases and I know that. Steve, when I say capitalism doesn't work, I mean it doesn't work in the way a lot of rightwingers claim: that a totally free market capitalist society would actually close the income gap/make the world an infinitely better place. The one thing it misses though, is external costs. You use the example of giving people cash to have babies. A baby may have no actual monetary value, but they may have value to society -what that value is is debatable. No corporation will pay you for having a baby, because they'll lose money. But government's job is to act for the benefit of society, if society needs babies, the government should encourage people to have babies.

Well...it's my opinion that, no matter what anyone says...we do NOT have a "totally free market capitalist" society. We've got government regulation up the arse. I give you required MPG as a NOT "free market". I think what most "rightwingers" understand is that if a person can prosper...and yes..."get rich", said person has the ability to provide jobs and wages to other people. I've never gotten a job from someone on welfare (not assigning any blame...I am just making a simple observation). I've usually gotten jobs from the well-off, the rich, and the evil corps. Have I myself done all the things it would take to "get rich too"? No...I have not. I've been a lazy beer drinking guitar playing video game playing ne'er do well.

"Big Government" not only takes a LOT of money to support...but also removes freedoms...because you know what?..."Big Government" is the MOST selfish cunts ever.

I posted to someone on Yahoo comments when he said :

I want to live in a kinder, gentler USA. When the dust settles, I want to feel that my government, who represents me, who is supposed to be there for me, cares as much about my well-being as I care about its well-being. It is all about us, the people who live, work, play and die on this soil. I love my country, and I want that to matter. So not only will I vote my mind and my gut, I will vote my heart too.

My reply:

Football fan: I for one...do not want to be loved and cared for by our government. That's not their job. That is the job of our families...communities...and churches. I want the government to do it's job...protection from foreign threats and infrastructure. Yes...there will be some regulations. Hopefully very controlled and limited. But to be coddled and held and stroked by Big Brother Government is...ickey : ) ...and will not work in the long run. Our Founding Fathers and TRUE Patriots...generally... had the right idea. And the more we stray from that, the worse it will get.

My old man told me "life is rough...." And yes it is. Government can't fix that. All it can do is hand money it collects from one person to the other. (I admit that government CAN "do good". One fellow reminded me of "OSHA". But for the most part....distrust of the Government Corporation is in order. Stealing from Social Security. Lying about Obamacare to make it "Constitutional". I refuse to think of "Government" as good for caring for me.

[jlb32]

Well...it's my opinion that, no matter what anyone says...we do NOT have a "totally free market capitalist" society. We've got government regulation up the arse. I give you required MPG as a NOT "free market". I think what most "rightwingers" understand is that if a person can prosper...and yes..."get rich", said person has the ability to provide jobs and wages to other people. I've never gotten a job from someone on welfare (not assigning any blame...I am just making a simple observation). I've usually gotten jobs from the well-off, the rich, and the evil corps. Have I myself done all the things it would take to "get rich too"? No...I have not. I've been a lazy beer drinking guitar playing video game playing ne'er do well. "Big Government" not only takes a LOT of money to support...but also removes freedoms...because you know what?..."Big Government" is the MOST selfish cunts ever. I posted to someone on Yahoo comments when he said : My reply: My old man told me "life is rough...." And yes it is. Government can't fix that. All it can do is hand money it collects from one person to the other. (I admit that government CAN "do good". One fellow reminded me of "OSHA". But for the most part....distrust of the Government Corporation is in order. Stealing from Social Security. Lying about Obamacare to make it "Constitutional". I refuse to think of "Government" as good for caring for me.

It's all based on the trickle down theory. Of course that theory doesn't work very well when our corporations are outsourcing everything and the money spent isn't going back to USA workers and creating good paying jobs in the USA. It's going to creating jobs and boosting the economies of other countries like China, Korea, Indonesia, etc... and the corporations.

[stratocaster202]

Well...it's my opinion that, no matter what anyone says...we do NOT have a "totally free market capitalist" society. We've got government regulation up the arse. I give you required MPG as a NOT "free market". I think what most "rightwingers" understand is that if a person can prosper...and yes..."get rich", said person has the ability to provide jobs and wages to other people. I've never gotten a job from someone on welfare (not assigning any blame...I am just making a simple observation). I've usually gotten jobs from the well-off, the rich, and the evil corps. Have I myself done all the things it would take to "get rich too"? No...I have not. I've been a lazy beer drinking guitar playing video game playing ne'er do well. "Big Government" not only takes a LOT of money to support...but also removes freedoms...because you know what?..."Big Government" is the MOST selfish cunts ever. I posted to someone on Yahoo comments when he said : My reply: My old man told me "life is rough...." And yes it is. Government can't fix that. All it can do is hand money it collects from one person to the other. (I admit that government CAN "do good". One fellow reminded me of "OSHA". But for the most part....distrust of the Government Corporation is in order. Stealing from Social Security. Lying about Obamacare to make it "Constitutional". I refuse to think of "Government" as good for caring for me.

 

When it comes to getting jobs from rich people, the past 30-40 years have shown that Reagan's trickle down economics don't work. Cutting taxes for the rich doesn't suddenly give everyone more money. It gives the rich more money.

 

And how did those people get rich? Through the work of a lot of other people, by using government provided infrastructure, education etc. Why shouldn't they give back into the system that helped get them where they are today?

 

Also, if government doesn't provide you things like healthcare, education, public safety, you pay a business to do it for you. You won't save money, you'll just give it to someone else, and the people who can afford to give more money will get priority over you: if their house goes up in flames and they've paid for 'premium fire protection' and yours goes up at the same time but you can only afford 'standard fire protection,' guess whose house will be saved.

 

 

But you're right, there's no way in hell we should trust government. And government absolutely interferes in places it shouldn't. But MPG requirements isn't one of them. That's necessary, that's the government internalizing an external cost. It is forcing the market to take into account the affect it has on the outside world.

[Gary Cohn]

 

When it comes to getting jobs from rich people, the past 30-40 years have shown that Reagan's trickle down economics don't work. Cutting taxes for the rich doesn't suddenly give everyone more money. It gives the rich more money. And how did those people get rich? Through the work of a lot of other people, by using government provided infrastructure, education etc. Why shouldn't they give back into the system that helped get them where they are today? Also, if government doesn't provide you things like healthcare, education, public safety, you pay a business to do it for you. You won't save money, you'll just give it to someone else, and the people who can afford to give more money will get priority over you: if their house goes up in flames and they've paid for 'premium fire protection' and yours goes up at the same time but you can only afford 'standard fire protection,' guess whose house will be saved. But you're right, there's no way in hell we should trust government. And government absolutely interferes in places it shouldn't. But MPG requirements isn't one of them. That's necessary, that's the government internalizing an external cost. It is forcing the market to take into account the affect it has on the outside world.

 

 

When I read that kind of stuff, I want to vomit.

 

 

I'll tell you what, you come out to where I am. I'll show you what starts business and how it is. You'll wish it was as easy as you say it is. I work 50 hours+ a week, outside. Check the weather, it's 100+. Come on out and farm with me.

 

 

Then go back and rethink your post.

[hugbot]

 

When I read that kind of stuff, I want to vomit. I'll tell you what, you come out to where I am. I'll show you what starts business and how it is. You'll wish it was as easy as you say it is. I work 50 hours+ a week, outside. Check the weather, it's 100+. Come on out and farm with me. Then go back and rethink your post.

 

 

I'm assuming that whatever your business is you use, for example, roads.

[***1776***]

When it comes to getting jobs from rich people, the past 30-40 years have shown that Reagan's trickle down economics don't work. Cutting taxes for the rich doesn't suddenly give everyone more money. It gives the rich more money. And how did those people get rich? Through the work of a lot of other people, by using government provided infrastructure, education etc. Why shouldn't they give back into the system that helped get them where they are today? Also, if government doesn't provide you things like healthcare, education, public safety, you pay a business to do it for you. You won't save money, you'll just give it to someone else, and the people who can afford to give more money will get priority over you: if their house goes up in flames and they've paid for 'premium fire protection' and yours goes up at the same time but you can only afford 'standard fire protection,' guess whose house will be saved. But you're right, there's no way in hell we should trust government. And government absolutely interferes in places it shouldn't. But MPG requirements isn't one of them. That's necessary, that's the government internalizing an external cost. It is forcing the market to take into account the affect it has on the outside world.

I have to disagree with some of this, your right on many aspects of your post (Im agreeing) but Reagan term was a big growth in terms of jobs and the economy -- The Ford and Carter years were FLAT OUT TERRIBLE on many levels including economic, the countries economy was WORSE during those terms and the countries mental state was fragile as well. I will say that i think both of those improved under Reagan years without a doubt


People get rich from many things including their own ideas, own hard work and sweat/blood - Did others help them? of course but lets not make it sound like that they are sitting down eating grapes while others around them are working, there are many factors to people being succesfull, there is some class warfare/envy in your statement and thats a problem in this country, my life doesnt 'suck' because of some rich guy i hear this 2 much these days


I have to challenge you, when does the govt come in and subsidize something does that price decrease and the service improve? Im not trolling or being a wiseass but you will be hardpressed to tell me otherwise, govt has a role to help business thrive and not to impede and tax it to death. Again im NOT saying govt has no role (it does) but the marketplace should and will determine sucess not a elected politican



Good debate and points so far boyz, keep it up

[stratocaster202]

 

When I read that kind of stuff, I want to vomit. I'll tell you what, you come out to where I am. I'll show you what starts business and how it is. You'll wish it was as easy as you say it is. I work 50 hours+ a week, outside. Check the weather, it's 100+. Come on out and farm with me. Then go back and rethink your post.

 

 

I'm not saying you don't put in a {censored} ton of work. But there's a difference between working your arse off to start a business, and getting to the point where you support yourself and can plan for the future and making millions and millions from your incredibly business. That's the idea behind graduated income taxes.

[Gary Cohn]

 

I'm assuming that whatever your business is you use, for example, roads.

 

 

I can't explain to you the time, effort and stress it takes to just start a business- nevermind what it takes to make a successful one.

 

If I could, obama's roads or the public school teacher's cry story wouldn't be a drop in the bucket.

 

It's more of a fundamental issue- if you have never done it, you'll never understand it. Which is fine. Just be sure to thank the man every day that provides you an opportunity to work- so you never have to live through the infant stages of a business starting.

[stratocaster202]

I have to disagree with some of this, your right on many aspects of your post (Im agreeing) but Reagan term was a big growth in terms of jobs and the economy -- The Ford and Carter years were FLAT OUT TERRIBLE on many levels including economic, the countries economy was WORSE during those terms and the countries mental state was fragile as well. I will say that i think both of those improved under Reagan years without a doubt People get rich from many things including their own ideas, own hard work and sweat/blood - Did others help them? of course but lets not make it sound like that they are sitting down eating grapes while others around them are working, there are many factors to people being succesfull, there is some class warfare/envy in your statement and thats a problem in this country, my life doesnt 'suck' because of some rich guy i hear this 2 much these days I have to challenge you, when does the govt come in and subsidize something does that price decrease and the service improve? Im not trolling or being a wiseass but you will be hardpressed to tell me otherwise, govt has a role to help business thrive and not to impede and tax it to death. Again im NOT saying govt has no role (it does) but the marketplace should and will determine sucess not a elected politican Good debate and points so far boyz, keep it up

 

Oh Reagan absolutely presided over massive growth etc. I'm referring simply to his plan of cutting taxes on the rich based on the notion that they money they saved they will spend. Because they don't. You don't stay rich by living beyond your means. Chances are you'll save that extra money.

 

You're right, the marketplace should determine success, but what about the people who cheat the market? Markets only function properly when there is perfect competition i.e. everyone knows everything about all the products and there are enough products out there no one company can make a huge difference. The mobile phone service industry is an example of a free market gone wrong. It's basically an oligopoly, Verizon and AT&T match each other more or less for prices, and none of the upstarts can really afford to enter into the market to challenge the status quo.

 

As for direct government intervention in a market, I would never advocate for that, except when the market has been screwed up by people trying to increase their profits. Although, how do you deal with things like the chemical industry? The cheapest, most efficient option isn't actually the best, care needs to be taken to limit environmental damage from chemical manufacturing, but companies will try to avoid this because it lowers their profit. In the short run the market will choose that option, and in the long run it will be too late to reverse the damage.

[Gary Cohn]

 

I'm not saying you don't put in a {censored} ton of work. But there's a difference between working your arse off to start a business, and getting to the point where you support yourself and can plan for the future and making millions and millions from your incredibly business. That's the idea behind graduated income taxes.

 

 

And my point is, while my friends and workers got drunk last night, I was sitting at my desk tired and dirty filling out logs for the workers.

 

While my friends get Saturday off to sleep off hangovers I'm up at 5 in the shop getting the work week ready and lining up a supply chain.

 

While my friends enjoy their social life, my girlfriend and I are running a farm. Hell, I'm running two. Foreman on one and owner of mine. You thought one farm was hard? I have the responsibilities of 2.

 

If I'm successful, I see no reason to share with people like my friends. Because while they were living up their 20'a, I was missing mine to secure a future. I want an airplane one day, multiple homes, whatever else I want. I'm not sharing.

 

People call that greed, I call it them playing checkers in a chess game.

 

I don't see why I have to give up a bigger piece of my pie because someone else can't make one. My income comes from my hands. I'm not trading on something that doesn't exist- I produce a product, I should benefit.

[hugbot]

 

I can't explain to you the time, effort and stress it takes to just start a business- nevermind what it takes to make a successful one. If I could, obama's roads or the public school teacher's cry story wouldn't be a drop in the bucket. It's more of a fundamental issue- if you have never done it, you'll never understand it. Which is fine. Just be sure to thank the man every day that provides you an opportunity to work- so you never have to live through the infant stages of a business starting.

 

 

You seem to be interpreting his post as saying "you don't work hard", which would be pretty untrue and insulting if it was, but thats not the point at all.

[buddhapaugh]

Is trying to run government as if it were a business or a corporation a failed endeavour, because they are two fundamentally different enterprises, with divergent goals and practices?