Gun Owner's Rights Advocates: This is exactly what we are afraid of...

[kissmyace]

 

Originally Posted by Mesa4x12er2

You think there's a possibility that some of those people are maybe legally on the run from someone? Maybe a battered wife etc that has the gun to protect them from an abusive husband/stalker etc? I have no source but I'd be willing to bet that there are more than a few special circumstances that just lost their cover.

 

this was another reason, but for the life of me I can't find the one I posted. I remember it well because of the big controversy, when a newspaper in my area did it. That was back in 2007, so....http://www.roanoke.com/news/roanoke/wb/109163

[Ron Burgandy]

Man, if undercover cops had their protection blown I'd have to turn sides. That's no longer freedom of information, but a gross error on the police agency and the reporter for not doing due diligence.

[guitarbilly74]

 

Originally Posted by Ron Burgandy

Man, if undercover cops had their protection blown I'd have to turn sides. That's no longer freedom of information, but a gross error on the police agency and the reporter for not doing due diligence.

 

I doubt an undercover cop would be carrying a gun registered to his real name.

[MetalHed]

 

Originally Posted by Ron Burgandy

The 2nd amendment guarantees the right to bear arms. Not once does it guarantee no restrictions or regulation nor does it afford privacy. Gun nuts make that part up and claim its now their right to own undocumented weapons.

 

This is the truth. Gun nuts make up all sorts of BS on a regular basis, this being the prime example of it.

[DoubleBarrel]

 

Originally Posted by MetalHed

This is the truth. Anti-Gun nuts make up all sorts of BS on a regular basis

 

Fixed

[Ron Burgandy]

 

Originally Posted by guitarbilly74

I doubt an undercover cop would be carrying a gun registered to his real name.

 

I haven't seen the source of this claim either. I'm 100% with you and sounds like a meme created to give a false reason to lambast the article.

It's simply a public list of people that have applied for and received, renewed, or modified existing handgun permits in the last 5 years. It doesn't mean the permit holders even own a handgun nor does it specify any information whatsoever about their collection of handguns. Further, it absolutely does not mention rifle owners, since those do not require a permit.

However in this thread:

1.) List has likened pistol permit owners to sex offenders

2.) List gives criminal a detailed inventory so they know who to rob

3.) Has compromised undercover police officers and outed them

[Ron Burgandy]

 

Originally Posted by DoubleBarrel

Fixed

 

Don't deflect. Educate me.

[Mesa4x12er2]

 

Originally Posted by Ron Burgandy

1.) List has likened pistol permit owners to sex offenders

2.) List gives criminal a detailed inventory so they know who to rob

3.) Has compromised undercover police officers and outed them

 

1.) The list is obviously meant to take advantage of the current stigma and fear out there that gun owners are all dangerous. In that sense putting them out there (as they do sex offenders) only serves to create more fear and reinforce the negativity going around. We list sex offenders as they have proven they are dangerous. Gun owners that abuse it are in jail and/or no longer have permits so they wouldn't be in that group. Even creating a list saying you need to know who the gun owners are implies there is something wrong with gun owners as you need to be aware of them. Vilifying law abiding citizens is bull{censored}. This article was clearly not mentioned for any other reason but to stir {censored}.

2.) No it doesn't give a detailed inventory but it will cause problems. If I was a thief, and had that map, and needed a gun I would case a house for a bit so I know when people leave. Then I would hit it. New Yorkers have a hard ass time getting carry permits so unless the owner is breaking the law chances are that the gun is at the house. No owner home and I know a gun is there... DING DING DING. Here we are talking about guns getting into the wrong hands and we're taking a lot of the risk out of the game for the would be thieves and telling them right where to go. On the flip side I would most definitely hit houses without gun owners before robbing a place. Yes they might still have a shotgun or rifle but people that would go the extra step of securing a permit etc seem like a lot more of an inherent threat than someone that doesn't.

3.) It's totally possible and given the number of people on the list it is likely that someone, whether a cop or otherwise, is less secure now that their name is out there as opposed to it not being out there. A lot of your info is public. Doesn't mean you want it on a billboard as most public information still requires requests. Very few things available at the click of a mouse.

So let's recap. Vilify law-abiding citizens that went out of their way to secure a permit as opposed to just having an unregistered gun. CHECK. Let people know where they can find a gun and also let people know who is likely to be unarmed and vulnerable. CHECK. Possibly put a spotlight on someone that needs to stay in the background, CHECK.

[TheRymanChu]

 

Originally Posted by DoubleBarrel

Fixed

 

Have you ever read any of the material that the NRA litters Congressional offices with? A first year grad student could poke holes in them within minutes.

[marshallnoise]

 

Originally Posted by ComOp

We should start taking bets on when marshallnoise finally goes over the top and dies in a gun battle with the police. I am gonna say it will be once they come to his house over the complaints from his neighbors about his hoarding. Although, it might be right after the next presidential election when some Dem wins the white house vs the tea party candidate that marshallnoises was sure won the popular vote only to be cheated by illegal immigrants who voted with fake names.

But seriously, I can totally picture him as one of those people who won't throw anything away because he is sure he'll need it when the gov'ment comes fer his guns.

 

You picture me totally wrong. I think you are just a tool.

 

Originally Posted by Ron Burgandy

Eh, his life is bad enough as it is. Look how he spent Christmas. Angry and alone on the Internet, berating others and trying to argue for no good reason. He'll continue to sit at home waiting for gangs of black people to break in to his fantasy fortress so he'll finally have cause to shoot someone.

 

LOL! That is rich considering you started a thread about what you are drinking on Christmas Day. Internet? Check. Starting a thread because he is an attention whore? Check. Arguing with someone on the internet on Christmas Day? Check.

I think you are just projecting again. What is your post count? You really shouldn't cast stones in a glass house.

 

Originally Posted by nightflameauto

As often as marshallnoise refers to gun ownership as being on the same level as being a pedophile, I'm beginning to wonder if we're all missing an obvious attempt at confession. The guy is a loon, no doubt, but his paranoia spins to pedophilia way too often to be coincidence.

 

Where is the paranoia? How is listing people as if they were a pedophile on the internet for owning something perfectly legal not a scare tactic? Isn't that the real purpose of Megan's Law?? Intimidation? I don't disagree with intimidating convicted sex offenders into not committing crimes again. But owning a handgun does not equal convicted sex offender, yet the treatment is the same.

Because I drew a parallel, once, you now think that I am confessing to being a pedophile? That's willfully ignorant as hell.

I know none of you hardly believe it, but I am just about as regular of a guy as anyone of you on here. Because I believe in liberty and freedom for everyone, I now am called a freak and a loner.

[guitarbilly74]

 

Originally Posted by Mesa4x12er2

1.) The list is obviously meant to take advantage of the current stigma and fear out there that gun owners are all dangerous. In that sense putting them out there (as they do sex offenders) only serves to create more fear and reinforce the negativity going around. We list sex offenders as they have proven they are dangerous. Gun owners that abuse it are in jail and/or no longer have permits so they wouldn't be in that group. Even creating a list saying you need to know who the gun owners are implies there is something wrong with gun owners as you need to be aware of them. Vilifying law abiding citizens is bull{censored}. This article was clearly not mentioned for any other reason but to stir {censored}.

2.) No it doesn't give a detailed inventory but it will cause problems. If I was a thief, and had that map, and needed a gun I would case a house for a bit so I know when people leave. Then I would hit it. New Yorkers have a hard ass time getting carry permits so unless the owner is breaking the law chances are that the gun is at the house. No owner home and I know a gun is there... DING DING DING. Here we are talking about guns getting into the wrong hands and we're taking a lot of the risk out of the game for the would be thieves and telling them right where to go. On the flip side I would most definitely hit houses without gun owners before robbing a place. Yes they might still have a shotgun or rifle but people that would go the extra step of securing a permit etc seem like a lot more of an inherent threat than someone that doesn't.

3.) It's totally possible and given the number of people on the list it is likely that someone, whether a cop or otherwise, is less secure now that their name is out there as opposed to it not being out there. A lot of your info is public. Doesn't mean you want it on a billboard as most public information still requires requests. Very few things available at the click of a mouse.

So let's recap. Vilify law-abiding citizens that went out of their way to secure a permit as opposed to just having an unregistered gun. CHECK. Let people know where they can find a gun and also let people know who is likely to be unarmed and vulnerable. CHECK. Possibly put a spotlight on someone that needs to stay in the background, CHECK.

 

All good except for the fact that the information was already public and easily accessible before the article was written. Stop talking like they revealed a big secret. They didn't.

[DoubleBarrel]

 

Originally Posted by TheRymanChu

Have you ever read any of the material that the NRA litters Congressional offices with? A first year grad student could poke holes in them within minutes.

 

Ever read some of the absolute bull crap the anti-gun lobby spews out ? A 3rd grader could poke holes in it within seconds.

[Ron Burgandy]

Get help, man. No one needs to live like that these days. There is help and the stigma surrounding mental illness isn't what it used to be. Just don't go on living with so much anger and hatred in your heart. It will consume you.

[Mesa4x12er2]

I actually like both of you, Ron and Marshall. I will lovingly home invade your anuses if you don't stop though.

[marshallnoise]

 

Originally Posted by Mesa4x12er2

See man, no one knows I have my stuff unless they shoot with me. This information guarantees I'm not likely to have a home invasion but it does increase the risk of someone trying to bust my safe while I'm gone. It's also why I don't post on facebook even when I'm out of town. Those kinds of things can only bring trouble. While I understand why you'd want to know I'm not sure what difference it could make to you. That and it would make you a prime target when you didn't have that little red ball next to your address.

 

Nope, you are paranoid. Apparently you being smart about all those things listed above, especially facebook, you are paranoid. A freak. Someone who is going to murder black babies and can't wait to do it!

This place is really the bottom of the barrel.

[marshallnoise]

 

Originally Posted by guitarbilly74

All good except for the fact that the information was already public and easily accessible before the article was written. Stop talking like they revealed a big secret. They didn't.

 

Bill, they compiled it for a specific purpose. This information was likely never intended to be made public in the first place. The FOIA was probably passed AFTER this gun registration program was enacted.

[marshallnoise]

 

Originally Posted by Ron Burgandy

Get help, man. No one needs to live like that these days. There is help and the stigma surrounding mental illness isn't what it used to be. Just don't go on living with so much anger and hatred in your heart. It will consume you.

 

What the hell? How have you come to any of those conclusions?

[Ron Burgandy]

 

Originally Posted by Mesa4x12er2

1.) The list is obviously meant to take advantage of the current stigma and fear out there that gun owners are all dangerous. In that sense putting them out there (as they do sex offenders) only serves to create more fear and reinforce the negativity going around. We list sex offenders as they have proven they are dangerous. Gun owners that abuse it are in jail and/or no longer have permits so they wouldn't be in that group. Even creating a list saying you need to know who the gun owners are implies there is something wrong with gun owners as you need to be aware of them. Vilifying law abiding citizens is bull{censored}. This article was clearly not mentioned for any other reason but to stir {censored}.

2.) No it doesn't give a detailed inventory but it will cause problems. If I was a thief, and had that map, and needed a gun I would case a house for a bit so I know when people leave. Then I would hit it. New Yorkers have a hard ass time getting carry permits so unless the owner is breaking the law chances are that the gun is at the house. No owner home and I know a gun is there... DING DING DING. Here we are talking about guns getting into the wrong hands and we're taking a lot of the risk out of the game for the would be thieves and telling them right where to go. On the flip side I would most definitely hit houses without gun owners before robbing a place. Yes they might still have a shotgun or rifle but people that would go the extra step of securing a permit etc seem like a lot more of an inherent threat than someone that doesn't.

3.) It's totally possible and given the number of people on the list it is likely that someone, whether a cop or otherwise, is less secure now that their name is out there as opposed to it not being out there. A lot of your info is public. Doesn't mean you want it on a billboard as most public information still requires requests. Very few things available at the click of a mouse.

So let's recap. Vilify law-abiding citizens that went out of their way to secure a permit as opposed to just having an unregistered gun. CHECK. Let people know where they can find a gun and also let people know who is likely to be unarmed and vulnerable. CHECK. Possibly put a spotlight on someone that needs to stay in the background, CHECK.

 

Do you have a problem with how the general population views handgun owners? It's really only as vilified as people take it. Most people view sex offenders in a negative light. Do you feel most of the people in the us look down on you for owning a handgun?

I see it as informational and not a topic to pass judgment on someone. Really, it's hardly even informational so as Billy said I think it's kind of dumb to publish. Not because it's good or bad. Just a waste of time like it was a slow news day type of thing.

[Mesa4x12er2]

 

Originally Posted by guitarbilly74

All good except for the fact that the information was already public and easily accessible before the article was written. Stop talking like they revealed a big secret. They didn't.

 

Yes, if you requested it about a specific person.

Requests must be for "a specific individual by name. Any requests for the entire list

of licensees or for all the licensees in a geographic area shall be

denied"

Section 1 - Subdivision 5 of Section 400.00 of the Penal Law, as

amended by Chapter 332 of the laws of 1994, is amended to make the

names of any pistol or revolver permit holders confidential except if

a request is made under the Freedom of Information Law (FOIL) for a

specific individual by name. Any requests for the entire list

of licensees or for all the licensees in a geographic area shall be

denied except if requested by law enforcement (to include any

district attorney office in New York State).

[Ron Burgandy]

 

Originally Posted by Mesa4x12er2

1.) The list is obviously meant to take advantage of the current stigma and fear out there that gun owners are all dangerous. In that sense putting them out there (as they do sex offenders) only serves to create more fear and reinforce the negativity going around. We list sex offenders as they have proven they are dangerous. Gun owners that abuse it are in jail and/or no longer have permits so they wouldn't be in that group. Even creating a list saying you need to know who the gun owners are implies there is something wrong with gun owners as you need to be aware of them. Vilifying law abiding citizens is bull{censored}. This article was clearly not mentioned for any other reason but to stir {censored}.

2.) No it doesn't give a detailed inventory but it will cause problems. If I was a thief, and had that map, and needed a gun I would case a house for a bit so I know when people leave. Then I would hit it. New Yorkers have a hard ass time getting carry permits so unless the owner is breaking the law chances are that the gun is at the house. No owner home and I know a gun is there... DING DING DING. Here we are talking about guns getting into the wrong hands and we're taking a lot of the risk out of the game for the would be thieves and telling them right where to go. On the flip side I would most definitely hit houses without gun owners before robbing a place. Yes they might still have a shotgun or rifle but people that would go the extra step of securing a permit etc seem like a lot more of an inherent threat than someone that doesn't.

3.) It's totally possible and given the number of people on the list it is likely that someone, whether a cop or otherwise, is less secure now that their name is out there as opposed to it not being out there. A lot of your info is public. Doesn't mean you want it on a billboard as most public information still requires requests. Very few things available at the click of a mouse.

So let's recap. Vilify law-abiding citizens that went out of their way to secure a permit as opposed to just having an unregistered gun. CHECK. Let people know where they can find a gun and also let people know who is likely to be unarmed and vulnerable. CHECK. Possibly put a spotlight on someone that needs to stay in the background, CHECK.

 

Do you have a problem with how the general population views handgun owners? It's really only as vilified as people take it. Most people view sex offenders in a negative light. Do you feel most of the people in the us look down on you for owning a handgun?

I see it as informational and not a topic to pass judgment on someone. Really, it's hardly even informational so as Billy said I think it's kind of dumb to publish. Not because it's good or bad. Just a waste of time like it was a slow news day type of thing.

[Ron Burgandy]

 

Originally Posted by Mesa4x12er2

1.) The list is obviously meant to take advantage of the current stigma and fear out there that gun owners are all dangerous. In that sense putting them out there (as they do sex offenders) only serves to create more fear and reinforce the negativity going around. We list sex offenders as they have proven they are dangerous. Gun owners that abuse it are in jail and/or no longer have permits so they wouldn't be in that group. Even creating a list saying you need to know who the gun owners are implies there is something wrong with gun owners as you need to be aware of them. Vilifying law abiding citizens is bull{censored}. This article was clearly not mentioned for any other reason but to stir {censored}.

2.) No it doesn't give a detailed inventory but it will cause problems. If I was a thief, and had that map, and needed a gun I would case a house for a bit so I know when people leave. Then I would hit it. New Yorkers have a hard ass time getting carry permits so unless the owner is breaking the law chances are that the gun is at the house. No owner home and I know a gun is there... DING DING DING. Here we are talking about guns getting into the wrong hands and we're taking a lot of the risk out of the game for the would be thieves and telling them right where to go. On the flip side I would most definitely hit houses without gun owners before robbing a place. Yes they might still have a shotgun or rifle but people that would go the extra step of securing a permit etc seem like a lot more of an inherent threat than someone that doesn't.

3.) It's totally possible and given the number of people on the list it is likely that someone, whether a cop or otherwise, is less secure now that their name is out there as opposed to it not being out there. A lot of your info is public. Doesn't mean you want it on a billboard as most public information still requires requests. Very few things available at the click of a mouse.

So let's recap. Vilify law-abiding citizens that went out of their way to secure a permit as opposed to just having an unregistered gun. CHECK. Let people know where they can find a gun and also let people know who is likely to be unarmed and vulnerable. CHECK. Possibly put a spotlight on someone that needs to stay in the background, CHECK.

 

Do you have a problem with how the general population views handgun owners? It's really only as vilified as people take it. Most people view sex offenders in a negative light. Do you feel most of the people in the us look down on you for owning a handgun?

I see it as informational and not a topic to pass judgment on someone. Really, it's hardly even informational so as Billy said I think it's kind of dumb to publish. Not because it's good or bad. Just a waste of time like it was a slow news day type of thing.

[Goop]

 

Originally Posted by marshallnoise

Because I believe in liberty and freedom for everyone, I now am called a freak and a loner.

 

It doesn't matter what they call you because you are actually a friend with one of the mods.

[marshallnoise]

 

Originally Posted by Goop

It doesn't matter what they call you because you are actually a friend with one of the mods.

 

Who? Sixtonoize? LOL! I am pretty sure he doesn't care for me very much. See free commerce allows people to trade, regardless of how someone feels about another person, when they have something that someone else wants.

I have no mods that give me special favor on HCAF, or anywhere for that matter.

[marshallnoise]

 

Originally Posted by Ron Burgandy

Do you have a problem with how the general population views handgun owners? It's really only as vilified as people take it. Most people view sex offenders in a negative light. Do you feel most of the people in the us look down on you for owning a handgun?

I see it as informational and not a topic to pass judgment on someone. Really, it's hardly even informational so as Billy said I think it's kind of dumb to publish. Not because it's good or bad. Just a waste of time like it was a slow news day type of thing.

 

You are blind as a bat if you believe that.

[marshallnoise]

 

Originally Posted by Mesa4x12er2

I actually like both of you, Ron and Marshall. I will lovingly home invade your anuses if you don't stop though.

 

Please, before you do, kiss me on the neck at least.