Lowering Action by Carving Out Saddle Groove

[Etienne Rambert]

I want to lower action on my jumbo to make it easier to play with 12's.

The saddle is pretty low already. The truss rod is already near ideal. The first fret action is low. The 12th fret action is high.

 

The luthier at International Vintage Guitars in New Orleans told me he saw two ways to do it. (1). Remove the bridge and sand it from the bottom. (2). Reset the neck.

 

#2 is definitely a non-starter. The guitar is only 2 years old. And the neck is straight. #1 doesn't sound too appealing either. But the idea occurred to me of carving a little depth out of the groove that the saddle fits into. Alternatively, I could sand down the bottom of the saddle.

 

Either way, it would lower the saddle, which would lower the action.

 

Has anyone tried that? Any tips? It's an Ebony bridge.

 

Thanks.

[daklander]

Sand the saddle if there's enough material sticking above the bridge. That's the normal way to accomplish lowering the action on an otherwise good setup. Wrap a piece of sand paper around something you know is flat, a pane of glass works well.

Here;s a great resource.

 

 

Oh, have you done the "Is My Guitar Sick?" checks on the Annex?

[MahaloVision]

What kind of Jumbo is it, and how is the neck attached? If it's a bolt on neck, then a reset is a piece of cake.

[Etienne Rambert]

No. It's a hand-made jumbo. Not bolt-on.

 

I love the guitar. But I let it sit in the case since November 2007 while I was in Asia. I'd loosened the strings. But when I got back, they buzzed at the first fret after I tuned them up.

 

So I backed off the truss rod a bit. That solved that problem. But with .12's, the action is tough as I move down the fretboard toward the body.

 

I'll do the "Is My Guitar Sick" test. I don't see any way around working on the saddle or the bridge though. I don't think I can tighten the truss rod without the 1st fret buzzing again.

 

I could sand down the 1st fret I guess.

[riffmeister]

Unless you have good woodowrking tools and know how to use them, I'd think that modifying the groove in the bridge would be pretty tough, esp ebony. Saddles, on the other hand, are a piece of cake to modify. I tape a piece of fine sand paper to my workbench and sand the bottom of the saddle to lower it.

[Etienne Rambert]

Thanks. Riffmeister.

I don't have woodworking tools. And I don't know how to use them.

 

Daklander's comment made me take a second look at the saddle. It is pretty low already. I'm not sure I have room to lower it further.

 

So the choices the luthier gave me of sanding down the bottom of the bridge - after removing it - or a neck reset - appear to be the only options.

 

Of course, I can go back to .11 gauge strings. And I'll do that next. This guitar really

booms with the John Pearse .12's on it though. I love the sound.

[riffmeister]

The break angle of the strings over the saddle to the bridge pins is the limiting factor for lowering the saddle. Can you post a pic of the bridge/saddle?

[Etienne Rambert]

OK. I will.

 

Coming up.

[BROLEX]

take it back to the seller, or at least email the manufacturer? i mean if it is a failrly new guitar, then the warranty would at least cover such an event?

[kwakatak]

Only 2 years old and you're considering on doing work to it yourself?!?

 

Is this one of your Vietnamese-made customs? If so, and if this is the result of some sort of deficiency in their workmanship, do they offer any sort of warranty on their work?

 

Regardless, double-check those measurements either referring to Freeman's article over at the Annex or at Frank Ford's site.

[Etienne Rambert]

Two photos. They're digital. I hope they're clear enough.

 

 

 

I normally play .11's. not .12's.

 

I'd like to keep 12's on this one.

 

The luthier at International Vintage Guitars told me the guitar was beautiful.

It is. He also told me this sort of thing was "normal". His word.

 

Sanding the bridge or resetting the neck at two years doesn't seem normal

to me. But he sells Martins, Gibsons & Larivees. He said it's normal.

 

The photo looks dusty. But I think that's a flash effect. It's not dusty.

At least, those white specks are not visible to the naked eye.

[riffmeister]

I see your situation....there is some room to come down, but not much. Might be easier to flatten the neck a little with a truss rod adjustment and have the frets leveled. Huh, surprising situation given that the guitar is so young....

[BROLEX]

The photo looks dusty. But I think that's a flash effect. It's not dusty. At least, those white specks are not visible to the naked eye.

 

no shame in having dusty guitars. i know i dont

[boxorox]

Well, to keep the cut level if you routed out the bridge, you'd need to take it off anyway. Let the luthier sand down the bridge, if you're comfortable wth that. IMO, looks like you're in neck-reset territory.

[kwakatak]

So, uh, what's going on with this?

[Hudman]

After viewing your pictures I feel that you can't take more off the saddle. The saddle is already too low making the string break angle weak. Your guitar is being robbed of tone.

 

You have a neck angle problem. Have your builder reset the neck.

[JasmineTea]

Looks like it needs a reset.

[Gary Palmer]

Hi Marcellis,

 

You can't in all honesty resolve the problem without first identifying the cause. If your luthier is known for being good at what he does and you trust him, I'd recommend you follow his directions rather than second guessing his initial advice.

 

I agree neck re-sets aren't uncommon, but finding a your guitar needs one after only two years would tend to indicate either a problem with neck angle from day one - Especially when considering the amount of saddle you have remaining above the bridge - or a problem with the glue used.

 

Four recognised options exist;

 

1. Neck re-set.

 

2. Slip the neck block.

 

3. Remove bridge. Dress material from its base.

 

4. Dress material from the top of the bridge.

 

Attempting to adjust action by removing material from your saddle at this point will not improve matters and will very probably leave you with an unplayable instrument.

 

Was your guitar stored standing upright during the two years you were away? The reason I ask is that certain glues suffer from what is known as creep (This is where glues appear to give a rigid bond, but actually slowly allow parts to slip). Much of the problem concerning the need for neck re-sets surrounds instruments being stored upright and resting on the base of their lower bouts, strung (Even a little string tension can hurt) and sometimes in constantly warm conditions. In other words, the instrument slouches / distorts slightly due to string pressure, gravity and glue creep.

[Freeman Keller]

Both JT and Gary are right on. My simple rule of thumb is that if your guitar has acceptable action AND at least 1/8 inch of saddle sticking out the neck the neck angle is OK. Obviously yours is not. Shaving the bridge or trying to deepen the saddle slot isn't fixing the real problem - for whatever reason your neck angle is wrong. One fix - get it reset.

 

Resetting the neck at two years in not normal, but it needs to be done. Take it back to the builder. Let us know how it goes.

[Etienne Rambert]

 

GP: I agree neck re-sets aren't uncommon, but finding a your guitar needs one after only two years would tend to indicate either a problem with neck angle from day one..."

 

 

Thanks everybody. The guy at International Vintage Guitars mentioned a neck reset too.

I was stunned.

 

But any neck reset will wait. I'm back in Asia and I brought back a 1976 Guild D-40 to

get some work done. It doesn't need a neck reset, btw.

 

Like someone said, it looks like the neck was placed wrong on day 1.

It will wait until I get back to the States. The neck was NOT placed by

my normal Saigon luthier. Mr. Binh. He did not build the guitar.

He replaced the top after the luthier across the street - who built the guitar -

cracked it. Mr. Binh did a great job repairing it & finishing the top.

 

I'll probably get the work done in the US. No point in bringing a Vietnamese-made guitar to Vietnam.

Even if it made sense, airline baggage rules make it very difficult to bring two guitars as baggage.

 

I still love the guitar. Hard to pick up any of my others when it's around.

Very special sound. Silky.