A question for you Martin gurus

[kwakatak]

As a few of you know, I've been GASing for a HD-35 but during my "studies" I've come across instances where D-35's are popping up on the used market for a verrry tempting price.

 

I've been told that D-35s open up really nicely after a few years but OTOH I've been bitten by the tone of the HD-35. I know that a new D-35 wouldn't sound like a HD-35 but what about an older (non-H) D-35? If so, what year would be a good example to look for? How would they compare in price to a new HD-35 as well?

 

Also, would the HD-35 take such a pounding? It's not like I leave my guitars out leaning on the couch (much) or leave them in the car on hot summer days/cold winter nights, but still I'd hate to open the case one day to discover it'd imploded.)

[mrmoe]

the Martin warranty only covers the original owner.....you don't have to look too far to find stories of Martin problems being covered by warranty....they seem to have had more than their share of issues....buy a new one!

[Pine Apple Slim]

One of the sweetest sounding Martins I've ever been around was a mid 70s

D35. Not loud by Martin standards, but a sweet sweet tone. A bandmate in the mid 90s owned it, bought it used in late

80s or early 90s. I know it had had neck reset and fret job, cant remember if he did it or was done by the previous owner,

Tony had great tone, timing, and feel, but it was also a really nice sounding guitar in its own right.

[Abando]

Neil, I would be careful about buying the HD-35. The HD-35 has a different kind of bracing than the HD-28 and regular D-35. Can't remember exactly why I avoided it when I was trying to decide between the Hd-28 & Hd-35. I remember it was about how it was built. Wish I could be more specific, but my memory ain't what it used to be. I would go to the Martin forum and ask how the HD-28 and HD-35 are built and ask if the HD-35 is less stable or more fragile in some way.

 

Abando

[rjoxyz]

I am a Martin lover, but no Guru. In terms of used Martins, I have read that there was a period in the 70's where a heavier bridgeplate was used and this was later determined to be a tone killer. Sorry I can't be more specific. I would recommend a search over at UMGF---that's where the real gurus reside.

 

Although the D35 uses lighter bracing than the 28, it is not scalloped like the HD's. I really don't think durability is a concern. Many a pro has performed and recorded with the D35. I suspect they are much harder on their gear than you or I might be.

[Queequeg]

Sir-

I would avoid the 1970s vintage Martins unless you filed-test it for hours and bring your inspection mirror and flashlight, and no- I'm not kidding. As rjoxyz indicates they had these over-sized bridge plates. but in addition, they were mounting their bridges often in the wrong place making intonation impossible.

The HD is better in my opinion because the braces arescalloped like the pre-war Martins.

I have owned an HD-28 since 1986 and it has held up well (until that is, I gave it to my son who left in a hot car in the Georgia sun) and even that was covered by CFM warranty.

A D35 or an HD35 is a mighty fine git.

(or an OM-35. I think JT has one of them.)

[Abando]

Neil, I have no idea how I found this, but here it is. Can't guarantee the accuracy of it. Direct from Martin forum:

 

"The 1/4" scalloped bracing on the HD-35 makes it Martin's lightest braced dread. This is not a bad thing, but its single most impactful spec. The choice should come down to your playing style.

 

From time to time we see threads about washing out. Under a heavier attack or strum, the lightly braced top of the HD-35 is likely to be the most vulnerable. On the other hand, it may be perfect for a lighter touch.

 

My own search quickly ruled out the HD-35. (A beautiful guitar, by the way!) This is the result of my percussive approach to rhythm. For me, the HD-28 fell perfectly into the slot between the D-28 and the D-35. Since then, I've added a D-18, but that's another happy story.

 

Play them. Really play them. Play as many of them as possible. Don't be shop shy. Play as you would at a jam, on stage, or in your own living room. If it speaks to you, buy it, and don't look back. Good luck, and enjoy the search."

[Soul Shakedown]

I have a 1993 Martin J-40, and I've had to reglue the binding on the neck in several places.

 

Binding seems to be huge problem with Martins. If I were to take a guess, I'd say the binding's plastic material appears to be the reason for the high frequency of coming undone, not the glue. A section of binding cracked and came loose between the third and fifth fret markers, and it is evident that the binding actually contracted; since having reglued it, it contracted further and has created a bit of space from the rest of of the binding.

 

And I'm not sure what finish was used, but it the top has accumulated small cracks all over, while the back and sides are fine. This gives me the impression that it is a result of wood constriction due to drying and not due to the finish (???). I don't mind, the cracks are only in the finish and not in the wood itself, it is *literally* the aged look, and I like the appearance of it.

 

A+ for sound and playability, I love it. But it is quite a fragile instrument, incredibly impressionable to climate change. I can't imagine these guitars would last a life of touring. A climate-controlled studio would be ideal, which I strongly recommend to anyone planning to drop big bucks on finer Martins. I'm 26 years old, and I don't believe this guitar will live as long as I will.

[bigald18]

One suggestion would be to get a D35 and if you want to open it up more take it to a luthier and have the braces shaved. It doesn't have to be as drastic as the HD, but it would still bring out the sound a little more.

 

bigald18

[panhandler]

I've always thought (and was told) the "H" designation meant Herringbone trim. And that was the only difference in an HD from a D.

 

Neil, go with your heart on this one. Used and aged in = no warrenty, New and full lifetime warranty = green.

[Brokepick]

I've always thought (and was told) the "H" designation meant Herringbone trim. And that was the only difference in an HD from a D.

 

I think it originally did, but somewhere along the line, that changed. The HD does indeed have herringbone trim, but it also has scalloped top bracing, which produces the sound that everyone likes.

[rjoxyz]

I think it originally did, but somewhere along the line, that changed. The HD does indeed have herringbone trim, but it also has scalloped top bracing, which produces the sound that everyone likes.

 

 

Scalloped bracing, herringbone, and tortoise pickguard differentiate it from the D-28/35. In my experience, the typical voice of the HD-28 is very different compared to a typical D-28, but pretty similar to the standard D-35.

[Queequeg]

 

Scalloped bracing, herringbone, and tortoise pickguard differentiate it from the D-28/35. In my experience, the typical voice of the HD-28 is very different compared to a typical D-28, but pretty similar to the standard D-35.

 

HD always had herringbone and scalloped braces, from the very beginng (around '84 or '85). Mine is from 1986, when the pickguards were black.

[kwakatak]

Yeah, the HD-35 has scalloped braces and herringbone trim, both of which I love. IME the lighter the guitar the better the tone. The only thing I didn't like about the one that otherwise SANG to me was the white binding. They've had custom-shop D-35s there with wood binding but they just didn't have the same tone. OTOH there was a custom shop 14-fret dread with a 3-piece back that also had that BIG voice. I have no idea what style of bracing it has though. Pricey though.

 

I'm in a damned dilemma over this. I keep thinking that I played my personal Holy Grail only to have it slip through my fingers. That's gotta be the worse kind of GAS: "The one that got away!"

[Gary Palmer]

If I were in your shoes I'd buy new and rest in the satisfaction of being fully covered by what amounts to an unbeatable warranty. If you lived on the other side of the pond I'd suggest buying used, simply because - outside North America (Poss incl Central America?) Martin don't back their instruments for any longer than the first year after purchase.

 

Different strings can be used to alter/improve most guitar voicings on a basis of trial and error and this is certainly the case with either the D28, D35 and OM35. Heading for their HD counterparts opens you up to various aspects of tonal differences and only you can judge what's best suited to your own ear and playing style. I heartily recommend test driving all of the three I've mentioned and have no qualms whatsoever concerning their structural integrity or capabilities.

 

White bindings can be stained/re-coloured afterward, but wood bindings seldom affect tonal output/projection and I'd assume string variance may have been the issue.

 

I'd honestly tend to forget about the aesthetic differences between two and three piece backs and focus more on the playing and tonal qualities you experience when trying out HD and D models.

[Whalebot]

I love the HD-35. I do not like the D-35. I like the HD-28, I do not like the D-28. It is the bracing for me, it really opens the git up and allows for fingerpicking by giving each note a bit more definition. IMHO. I'm partial to the OM-35, that is my dream guitar.

[JasmineTea]

1/4" scalloped bracing. But just because it's spec'd one way or other (say 5/16" scallopes) does'nt mean it will or won't be a holy grail.

 

But it's still got a 1-11/16" nut, and might not be great for fingerstyle, and hence, not the best "all around" guitar. Consider those 16 Series gits with the wide f/b. Might be a little cheaper, too.

 

But, otoh Kwak, you've been gasing for a 35 of somekind for a while. I think you'll keep gasing till you get one. New of course, has the warranty, so if it explodes you should be covered.

 

My OM-35 has the light braces and it's indeed a warm sound. And the white binding fades some with time.

 

I'd suggest shoeboxing till you've got the do-ra-mi, or at least a downpayment, and keep shopping in the meantime.

[Queequeg]

 

New of course, has the warranty, so if it explodes you should be covered.

 

explodes? impossible.

(right, Whale?)

[Whalebot]

 

explodes? impossible. (right, Whale?)

 

 

Ummm, right. (a muffled boom issues from a guitar case in the other room)

These 15 series guitars must be finished with nitroglycerin.

[Queequeg]

Ummm, right. (a muffled boom issues from a guitar case in the other room) These 15 series guitars must be finished with nitroglycerin.

huh?

...

 

wait a minute...

 

 

 

[Whalebot]

JK your git is just fine. Plays nice too. Sorry for the thread jack Niel. Get the HD

[kwakatak]

LOL! Part of the reason why I'm so skittish about going with the lighter, scalloped bracing was because of your Martie there, Brett. My guitars really take some punishment and I'd hate to lose one to the slightest bump.

 

BTW, my local dealer has no HD-35s and the D-35s he does have almost have the tone - but not quite. OTOH, there's a custom shop D with a 3-piece back that's labeled as a D-14 (with 3-piece back) that soundish HD-35-ish but my shoebox is still pretty bare. In fact, my wife doesn't even know of my current scheme - though I'm working on justification for this bout of GAS.

 

*sigh* so it looks like the search continues. Maybe I should head on over to the local GC and see if their financial woes have made them desperate.

[Whalebot]

Neil,

GC always has the financing card available, oddly enough I have never done that though. And with the bracing, the bracing in the 000 had nothing to do with the brak, in fact, the neck and soundboard are perfect and the action is still like butter.

[boxorox]

Don't like D-35's. Reason being the first one I had experience with was one of those early '70s models. Deep but mushy, no definition. It was a new model then, so I over criticized, I guess. Saw a lot of crappy Martins back then. About '77, I saw a D-28 whose top was literally green. Maybe some of those broke in and got some tone in the last thirty years. I avoid them. On the good side, it opened up the market for Yammies, Ibanez, etc. And put boutique builders to work. Gurian, Mossman, Gallagher, Taylor, etc, many of whom have made the cut as great guitar builders. The renaissance in luthierie we benifit from today we owe to Martin. Not for their success and quality, but to the bad judgement of their bean-counters.

[AndrewGG]

 

I have a 1993 Martin J-40, and I've had to reglue the binding on the neck in several places. Binding seems to be huge problem with Martins. If I were to take a guess, I'd say the binding's plastic material appears to be the reason for the high frequency of coming undone, not the glue. A section of binding cracked and came loose between the third and fifth fret markers, and it is evident that the binding actually contracted; since having reglued it, it contracted further and has created a bit of space from the rest of of the binding. And I'm not sure what finish was used, but it the top has accumulated small cracks all over, while the back and sides are fine. This gives me the impression that it is a result of wood constriction due to drying and not due to the finish (???). I don't mind, the cracks are only in the finish and not in the wood itself, it is *literally* the aged look, and I like the appearance of it. A+ for sound and playability, I love it. But it is quite a fragile instrument, incredibly impressionable to climate change. I can't imagine these guitars would last a life of touring. A climate-controlled studio would be ideal, which I strongly recommend to anyone planning to drop big bucks on finer Martins. I'm 26 years old, and I don't believe this guitar will live as long as I will.

 

 

The finish used on Martins is nitro-cellulose and the cracking you describe is a result of the guitar being taken from a very cold environment to a very warm one and being taken from its case without giving it time to acclimatise.

The wood and finish expand at different rates; the finish can't keep up, is stressed and cracks.