Members Stella Joop Posted August 9, 2009 Members Share Posted August 9, 2009 so it is well known that tortoiseshell picks are highly heralded. ive never played a real tortoiseshell pick...i was reading earlier about how tortex is supposed to be the closest thing (?) before then i never made the connection of the name being "tortex" and having the turtle on it to it being a tortoiseshell wanna be. i have used tortex picks forever but never a real tortoiseshell pick. they say it very closely mocks the wear, release, feel, sound, grip, etc etc... for those who have used both, how true is this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Stackabones Posted August 9, 2009 Members Share Posted August 9, 2009 I used Tortex for years and loved, loved them -- but I don't think I ever played a turtle shell pick. Though I could have in my early days when I got my Dad's hand-me-down guitar and gear. I wonder if any of those picks were real turtle. When did they stop making them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Stella Joop Posted August 9, 2009 Author Members Share Posted August 9, 2009 I used Tortex for years and loved, loved them -- but I don't think I ever played a turtle shell pick. Though I could have in my early days when I got my Dad's hand-me-down guitar and gear. I wonder if any of those picks were real turtle. When did they stop making them? early 70's i think. thats when they did some ban on using it i believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frets99 Posted August 9, 2009 Share Posted August 9, 2009 I wonder if any of those picks were real turtle. When did they stop making them? About the time he complained!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Pascal Posted August 9, 2009 Members Share Posted August 9, 2009 Am I wrong when I say that pretty much every pick manufacturer has his own proprietary material that is "the closest alternative to tortoise shell that is available on the market"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Terry Allan Hall Posted August 9, 2009 Members Share Posted August 9, 2009 Years ago, I bought a Gibson mandola at an estate sale, and in the case were about a dozen tortoise-shell picks...interesting relics from our picking past, but not quite the tonal improvement that many people have speculated...still have 5 of 'em (gave the rest away as Xmas presents one year). Having compared them for many years against every "tortoise-shell replacement", I've found these are the closest, and truly deliver 99.999999999% of the tortoise-shell tone. http://www.steveclayton.com/ultem.html And that other .000000001% is nowhere nearly worth taking this fellow's life... BTW, a generic Fender pick gets you within about 97% of the tortoise-shell tone... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members AndrewGG Posted August 9, 2009 Members Share Posted August 9, 2009 I probably used one back in the 60's but, TBH, the hoopla around tortoiseshell is pretty much all there is. There's nothing magical about its tone producing property that you can't get anywhere else. Good tone, as always, lies with the player not the plectrum. BTW, steer clear of tortoiseshell. It's banned under CITES legislation and posessing an item newly made from it can land you some serious jail time and a big fine.If you have a pick made from it the onus is on you to prove its provenance and show that it was made and bought prior to the ban-if you get caught with it. On a personal note I prefer not to have dead animals associated with my guitars if I can avoid it. Cow bone, yes, as it is a by-product of the meat industry and the animal wasn't killed solely to produce a vanity item. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WilmerTheWhite Posted August 9, 2009 Members Share Posted August 9, 2009 I put a mammut ivory nut on one of my guitars when the original nut broke. Mammuts are extinct anyway, I thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members C70man Posted August 9, 2009 Members Share Posted August 9, 2009 Turtle shells...hmmm, I don't really know why they are illegal....I mean, I see plenty of "retired" turtles.Besides, we eat meat from cows, chicken, fish.....why are turtles so revered? I see turtles all over the place in Florida. In fact everytime I ride my bike....most are alive, but some are definitely expired. Why not make pics from deceased turtles? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members AndrewGG Posted August 9, 2009 Members Share Posted August 9, 2009 Turtle shells...hmmm, I don't really know why they are illegal....I mean, I see plenty of "retired" turtles.Besides, we eat meat from cows, chicken, fish.....why are turtles so revered? I see turtles all over the place in Florida. In fact everytime I ride my bike....most are alive, but some are definitely expired. Why not make pics from deceased turtles? The Hornbill turtle was exploited to near-extinction, hence the ban. Same thing with Brazilian rosewood and many other species of flora and fauna on the CITES lists. Trading in Hornbill shell has been banned since 1992. I guess, if you really wanted to, you could try fashioning picks from dead turtle shells but the Hornbill, specifically, was used both because the shell had attractive aesthetic qualities when worked into boxes, combs, spectacle frames etc., and for picks it happened to be the only material available which was stiff and flexible enough. And then plastics were invented and shell became gradually redundant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Qengho Posted August 9, 2009 Members Share Posted August 9, 2009 Tortex are nothing like tortoiseshell. These are much closer: Tortis picks from Red Bear Trading Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DarkHorseJ27 Posted August 9, 2009 Members Share Posted August 9, 2009 Years ago, I bought a Gibson mandola at an estate sale, and in the case were about a dozen tortoise-shell picks...interesting relics from our picking past, but not quite the tonal improvement that many people have speculated...still have 5 of 'em (gave the rest away as Xmas presents one year). Having compared them for many years against every "tortoise-shell replacement", I've found these are the closest, and truly deliver 99.999999999% of the tortoise-shell tone. http://www.steveclayton.com/ultem.html And that other .000000001% is nowhere nearly worth taking this fellow's life... BTW, a generic Fender pick gets you within about 97% of the tortoise-shell tone... The other picks that claim to get the same tone as tortoise shell cost $20 to $35 a pick. I see those Claytons are a lot cheaper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members min7b5 Posted August 9, 2009 Members Share Posted August 9, 2009 The Clayton golds are not like real TS -to me anyway. I did a little demo here last week: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2zaedGLEI4 I want to like the Golds, but I find the finish work is not good. They always need to be buffed out, and the bevel is pretty abrupt... but more to the point, it's doesn't sound and feel like or better than the real thing to me. The Red Bear is WAY closer in texture. The Golds are really good picks (after some touch up) and they might be just thing for brightening up a darker guitar, but personally not my first choice. Just ordered the 1.5mm tri-corner Blue Chip. So I'll have the exact same size and shape tortoise shell, Red Bear, Wegen, Clayton, and Blue Chip. So I'll try to do another shootout vid next week Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Chordchunker Posted August 9, 2009 Members Share Posted August 9, 2009 Not Tortex, Tortis. I used the purple tortex picks for years also, and I have the Clayton`s and the Ultex. Right now Blue chips are my favorite with tortis being a close second. I really could care less if they sound like turtle shell or not. After using tortis pics and blue chips the difference in tone is so huge with the plastics I don`t see myself using anything else in the near future. One of my friends swears his home-made cut up credit card picks are better than anything.. to each his own.. Thats why they make vanilla and chocolate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members boxorox Posted August 9, 2009 Members Share Posted August 9, 2009 Don't know how much is vanity or voodoo, but some people swear by them. They are the type that get addicted to picks. Being a natural product, toroise shell can vary in stiffness, density, etc, so they are not replaceable, even by a similar tortoise pick. Each one has to be broken in. I like the Claytons and use the Tortex exclusively. I can buy consistant picks at small cost at any music store from coast to coast. Big plus. Big, big "NO" to using shell from roadkill. If it's hard to prove that shell or a hawk's feather is pre-ban, it's impossible to prove the creature it came from shed it naturally or met it's demise in a way that was consistant with it's lifestyle. Mere posession is a crime if you cannot PROVE provenance. In the eyes of the Law, if you have it, you are guilty. Be careful out there children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Terry Allan Hall Posted August 9, 2009 Members Share Posted August 9, 2009 The other picks that claim to get the same tone as tortoise shell cost $20 to $35 a pick. I see those Claytons are a lot cheaper. Quite a bit, yeah...MF sells the ones I use for $5.99/dz + s/h...I buy a 1/2-gross once a year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Stella Joop Posted August 9, 2009 Author Members Share Posted August 9, 2009 by the way...you guys that use red bear and all that kind of stuff that are the thicker tortoisey stuff for $20 a pop...have you seen these? a dozen for 6 dollars. http://accessories.musiciansfriend.com/product/DAndrea-Pro-Plec-Rounded-Triangle-Picks-One-Dozen?sku=110879 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Terry Allan Hall Posted August 9, 2009 Members Share Posted August 9, 2009 by the way...you guys that use red bear and all that kind of stuff that are the thicker tortoisey stuff for $20 a pop...have you seen these? a dozen for 6 dollars. http://accessories.musiciansfriend.com/product/DAndrea-Pro-Plec-Rounded-Triangle-Picks-One-Dozen?sku=110879 A bit thick for my tastes (I like something in the .80 range, myself), but still a very good pick...really like the embossing, as it makes it easier to hang onto when your hands are sweaty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Stella Joop Posted August 9, 2009 Author Members Share Posted August 9, 2009 A bit thick for my tastes (I like something in the .80 range, myself), but still a very good pick...really like the embossing, as it makes it easier to hang onto when your hands are sweaty. do you have any of those pro plecs terry? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Terry Allan Hall Posted August 10, 2009 Members Share Posted August 10, 2009 do you have any of those pro plecs terry? Just looked in my "reject pick box" (full of many picks I don't actually use, for whatever reason ) and can't find any of that one, so I've apparently, at some point, given the three I bought away...or one of my picking-friends helped themselves. Excellent pics, but they're just too thick for my tastes...otoh, folks who like thicker picks may really love one of these. I think where I bought my three, they were $.75 per, so finding out how well you like 'em certainly won't change your tax status! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Stella Joop Posted August 10, 2009 Author Members Share Posted August 10, 2009 Just looked in my "reject pick box" (full of many picks I don't actually use, for whatever reason ) and can't find any of that one, so I've apparently, at some point, given the three I bought away...or one of my picking-friends helped themselves. Excellent pics, but they're just too thick for my tastes...otoh, folks who like thicker picks may really love one of these. I think where I bought my three, they were $.75 per, so finding out how well you like 'em certainly won't change your tax status! im using a 1.2 mm fender extra heavy right now. .3mm aint that big of a difference is it? i love triangle and usually use the same ones as you, the clayton 80's but i have gone to the heavier side. these seem perfect with some grip...GC didnt have em...hmm...i WILL find these. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DonK Posted August 10, 2009 Members Share Posted August 10, 2009 The Clayton golds are not like real TS -to me anyway. I did a little demo here last week: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2zaedGLEI4 I want to like the Golds, but I find the finish work is not good. They always need to be buffed out, and the bevel is pretty abrupt... but more to the point, it's doesn't sound and feel like or better than the real thing to me. The Red Bear is WAY closer in texture. The Golds are really good picks (after some touch up) and they might be just thing for brightening up a darker guitar, but personally not my first choice. Just ordered the 1.5mm tri-corner Blue Chip. So I'll have the exact same size and shape tortoise shell, Red Bear, Wegen, Clayton, and Blue Chip. So I'll try to do another shootout vid next week I agree on the Clayton Ultem picks - IMO not really all that close to real hawksbill tortoiseshell picks (which I got to try for the first time a few months ago; met a bluegrass player who's got quite a collection). Dunlop Ultex are made of similar, if not identical, material. I like both the Ultem and Ultex picks - I'm mostly using a 1.14mm Ultex regular triangle these days - sometimes a roughly equivalent Clayton Ultem 1.2mm - but they don't feel or sound that close to the real TS picks IMO (which didn't really do anything for me: I thought they sounded kind of dull overall). The Clayton Ultex triangles are ever-so-slightly larger than the Dunlop Ultem picks, and they have a little bit less of a knife edge. D'andrea ProPlec's are even less like real TS. I've got a few dozen of those - large triangles, and the small "rocket-shaped" ones: they feel like hi-grade celluloid (but they don't wear like celluloid: they're much more durable). Of the hundred or so pick varieties I've tried (and have on hand! ), the Red Bear Tortis picks come the closest to the real TS picks I got to try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Grant Harding Posted August 10, 2009 Members Share Posted August 10, 2009 I'm a Dunlop Ultex fan. I love the way they feel and sound compared to any othe mass-produced ones I've played with, but I haven't tried any of the "boutique" ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members boxorox Posted August 10, 2009 Members Share Posted August 10, 2009 Tortex .88's. I cut grooves in them for handling. Claytons don't groove so well. Picks have a response time. They flex in/re attack and recovery. It's something you get used to. Sea turtles are uniformly delicious. If you have the skill. But they don't make consistant picks. I'll refrain my turtle eating to snappers. They're safe 'cause they're too much trouble. Anyway, save the turtles. There are too many good alternatives. The myth creates a demand, and a demand creates a market. Do as you will. It's your conscience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Grant Harding Posted August 10, 2009 Members Share Posted August 10, 2009 I've always though a composite pic made from rhino horn and tiger penis would have to be great. Stiff too!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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