It's Official! I asked Zager for a Refund

[StringJunky]

 

I just don't get it. What's wrong with making a guitar easier to play? If Zager can do that - more power to him. I hope he makes a mint. If he doesn't - shame on him. But why throw chairs around? I see nothing wrong with easy action.

 

 

That's...not the point.

 

Easy action = good.

 

Pissing on your leg and telling you it's raining = bad.

 

I'm certainly not the first person who has posted this point in this thread.

 

Please. For the love of God, or whatever you hold holy, do you get it now?

[Etienne Rambert]

stringjunky:

"Please. For the love of God, or whatever you hold holy, do you get it now?"

 

 

For the love of God or whatever I hold holy?

 

I had know idea the stakes were that high in this thread.

Wow! That's some serious stuff we're talking about here!

I stand corrected.

[Misha]

:facepalm:

 

[Sangemon]

Is 10 pages enough?

 

Nah..let's go for another 10!

 

[riffmeister]

 

stringjunky: For the love of God or whatever I hold holy? I had know idea the stakes were that high in this thread. Wow! That's some serious stuff we're talking about here! I stand corrected.

 

 

 

I do see parallels.......like religion, the Z***r bashing goes well beyond logic.

 

.

[StringJunky]

 

stringjunky: For the love of God or whatever I hold holy? I had know idea the stakes were that high in this thread. Wow! That's some serious stuff we're talking about here! I stand corrected.

 

 

*sigh*

 

No, it's not a big deal. If people want to be obtuse and completely miss the point, more power to them. Just wanted to clear up a little issue, and hopefully see a little less of these threads in the long run. I guess Z***gar threads are like herpes though: they flare up every now and then, and you just have to learn to live with the pain and embarassment.

[Brokepick]

 

I just don't get it. What's wrong with making a guitar easier to play? If Zager can do that - more power to him. I hope he makes a mint. If he doesn't - shame on him. But why throw chairs around? I see nothing wrong with easy action.

 

 

I am clearly anti-Zager, and I don't apologize for that. I speak against Zager not because Zager sells a crappy guitar, but because Zager tries to represent "EZ Play" and "String Science" as some magical revolutionary innovation, when all it is (allegedly) is a specialized (and very overpriced) setup that anyone can have done anywhere, on almost any guitar.

 

Easy action is good, but Zager didn't invent that, nor is he the only one who can (allegedly) make a guitar with easy action as he claims.

[valentsgrif]

Just to keep the momemetum going, I agree with everything Bubbalou said, including his comparisons.

I bought my Zager ZAD -50 three years ago. Paid $450. I was an experienced player, not a noob. Solid top Sigmas sold for $299 shipped back then. A set up in my neighboorhood was $75 and did not include new strings or a new nut.

 

I read Zagers hype. Half out of curiosity, half in need of an easier playing acoustic (arthritic fingers) I figured what the heck.

 

I paid $450 for esentially a $380 guitar. Could I have taken the $300

zager and had it set up? Sure, but I have not been thrilled with the techs at any of the local shops: the cheap guitars usually got the apprentice/assistant to do the set ups and my electrics were sometimes screwed up after these guys had at them.

 

An out of box acoustic that played as low and easy as an electric? Intriguing.

If it sucks I can send it back without a hassle? Whats not to love.

 

I gave it a spin and it worked for me. I'm not a shill (not after 1k in posts). It was worth the extra $100 for the peace of mind: easy return and lifetime warranty.

 

I know a $100 is a lot of money to a lot of people. But it was not exhorbitant to me. I don't know what Zagers profit per guitar is and I don't care. Perhaps we could find out also what the profit is on those $900 Masterbulits with all the bling, and compare.

 

Its great to counsel people on the availability of used Yamahas and Sigmas and how to get a set up for $50 and all and thats always an option for some. But please consider that every players' situation is not identical to yours and a risk free shot an an easy playing instrument- shiny and new out of the box- has a certain value that is subjective to the individual player. I don't feel ripped off and as Bubbalou has detailed, my Zager plays as well as guitars twice its price.

 

I know, I know: its not the guitar its the way its marketed. If Zagers' claims are false, I'm sure by now he'd be sanctioned, cited, sued, arrested, banned whatever for fraud or bad business practices. To my knowledge his business practices have not been deemed fraudulent or deceptive by any legal authority and until that time, ya'll ought to find some other business to get in a tither about. May I suggest drug or automobile companies?

[Brokepick]

 

Just to keep the momemetum going, I agree with everything Bubbalou said, including his comparisons. I bought my Zager ZAD -50 three years ago. Paid $450. I was an experienced player, not a noob. Solid top Sigmas sold for $299 shipped back then. A set up in my neighboorhood was $75 and did not include new strings or a new nut. I read Zagers hype. Half out of curiosity, half in need of an easier playing acoustic (arthritic fingers) I figured what the heck. I paid $450 for esentially a $380 guitar. Could I have taken the $300 zager and had it set up? Sure, but I have not been thrilled with the techs at any of the local shops: the cheap guitars usually got the apprentice/assistant to do the set ups and my electrics were sometimes screwed up after these guys had at them. An out of box acoustic that played as low and easy as an electric? Intriguing. If it sucks I can send it back without a hassle? Whats not to love. I gave it a spin and it worked for me. I'm not a shill (not after 1k in posts). It was worth the extra $100 for the peace of mind: easy return and lifetime warranty. I know a $100 is a lot of money to a lot of people. But it was not exhorbitant to me. I don't know what Zagers profit per guitar is and I don't care. Perhaps we could find out also what the profit is on those $900 Masterbulits with all the bling, and compare. Its great to counsel people on the availability of used Yamahas and Sigmas and how to get a set up for $50 and all and thats always an option for some. But please consider that every players' situation is not identical to yours and a risk free shot an an easy playing instrument- shiny and new out of the box- has a certain value that is subjective to the individual player. I don't feel ripped off and as Bubbalou has detailed, my Zager plays as well as guitars twice its price. I know, I know: its not the guitar its the way its marketed. If Zagers' claims are false, I'm sure by now he'd be sanctioned, cited, sued, arrested, banned whatever for fraud or bad business practices. To my knowledge his business practices have not been deemed fraudulent or deceptive by any legal authority and until that time, ya'll ought to find some other business to get in a tither about. May I suggest drug or automobile companies?

 

 

You present a convincing argument. I can't fault your logic or your purchase. You are willing to pay the extra money for what Zager offers. You are genuinely happy with your Zager. So is Bubbalou. Cool.

 

Are you typical? Could you in good conscience, tell some newbie who knows nothing about guitars that all the information found on Zager's website can be relied on, and that noob is getting the best guitar he/she can for the money if he/she buys from Zager?

 

If that noob were me, I would appreciate someone at least pointing out the omissions and misdirections in Zager's sales hype.

[Charlotte941]

 

You present a convincing argument. I can't fault your logic or your purchase. You are willing to pay the extra money for what Zager offers. You are genuinely happy with your Zager. So is Bubbalou. Cool. Are you typical? Could you in good conscience, tell some newbie who knows nothing about guitars that all the information found on Zager's website can be relied on, and that noob is getting the best guitar he/she can for the money if he/she buys from Zager? If that noob were me, I would appreciate someone at least pointing out the omissions and misdirections in Zager's sales hype.

 

 

I would really like to know the omissions and misdirections. Here are the facts:

 

1. Zager has been in business since 1969

 

2. Zager has been an Ebay Power Seller for close to 10 years and is the highest rated guitar seller on Ebay with 2700+ Positive feedback without 1 negative. Sorry fellas, you don't get this kind of rating just delivering the product on time. If you don't believe this contact the buyers of these guitars like I have. Their contact information is available on Ebay.

 

3. Zager has been a member of the Better Business Bureau since 1969 and has a flawless BBB rating. If Zager sold a poor quality product, or refused to pay out on their money back guarantee I don't think they would have a 40 year flawless record.

 

4. Zager has one of the highest rankings of any brand on Harmony Central guitar reviews with several thousand reviews and most ratings 9.5 or higher. This is better then many Martin and Taylor brands folks, and the people who reviewed these guitars DO post their contact information and I did in fact contact several of these people and they backed up their reviews.

 

5. Lastly, I truly find it hard to believe that Zager would ship an inferior quality instrument and at the same time be the only guitar company in the world to offer a money back guarantee that includes shipping fees both ways. I have read many reviews and testimonials from customers who said they tried a Zager and for whatever reason returned it and were given all their money back including shipping fees both ways. As expensive as shipping is these days with gas prices what they are I find it hard to believe Zager could afford to stay in business offering this type of guarantee.

 

What I want to know is why doesn't my friends Taylor 910 that he paid $4500 for play anywhere as easily as my $700 Zager? I mean the Taylor at 7 times the cost should at least play as easily, but it's not even close. You have the audacity to say that Denny is overcharging for his guitars when Taylor sells a guitar at 7 times the price that doesn't play as easily out of the box as my Zager. And don't give me this BS that it needs a set up. My friends Taylor HAS BEEN SET UP and it still doesn't match the Zager. So tell me who is ripping off the public here. Zager sends me a guitar for $700 that plays easier out of the box then a $4500 Taylor WITH A SET UP! Can you tell me what makes that Taylor worth 7 times the price of my guitar?

 

I've had enough of this garbage. If you want to continue to spew lies in this forum to unsuspecting individuals then I'm going to start posting reviews I find on Zagers with the reviewers contact information so we can verify fact from fiction.

[Ohioarrow]

 

I've had enough of this garbage. If you want to continue to spew lies in this forum to unsuspecting individuals then I'm going to start posting reviews

 

 

.. And this is different from now, How exactly? - That seems to be all you do here is post 1/8 page ads & testimonials.

 

 

I have two friends that have bought Z^gers in the past so I know you are full of it. They are your basic low end guitar of competitive sound and quality as many other low end brands but with a funky setup, super slinky strings, and a big butted price markup.

 

valentsgrif has a valid argument. An experienced player who wanted a specific set of specifications and didn't wanna mess with his own set up. He knew what he was getting into from the word go. That is fine, I got no issue with that. However, his situation is the exception and not the rule. Where his experience may have guided his selection process, the VAST number of Denny's customers went for the hype and their decisions were not based on a foundation of experience. So it was with my two friends who now want to trade up to bigger and better instruments but Denny's hype does not translate into trade-in value. So they have to go buy outright and the Z^ger sits in the closet unable to fetch a sale price (in light of what they paid) in the local market.

 

One of the guys has the 80 and he has given it to his 9 year old kid as a first guitar to learn on. Reluctantly, I admit that is an excellent use for the 80 to provide a means for young hands to form finger memory on because the strings are so easy to depress. The other guy who had the 50 finally traded for $100 off the price of a new Masterbilt.

[Misha]

That's it! Enough is enough! Ignore list has just been used!

 

"Charlotte941

This message is hidden because Charlotte941 is on your ignore list."

[Brokepick]

I've had enough of this garbage. If you want to continue to spew lies in this forum to unsuspecting individuals then I'm going to start posting reviews I find on Zagers with the reviewers contact information so we can verify fact from fiction.

 

Reviews from paid shills such as yourself are useless.

You have 33 posts here and all you have done in each of them is plug, troll, and shill for Zager. You have posted no pictures of your Zager. You have posted no sound clips of your Zager. YOU ARE DECEIVING NO ONE HERE!

[Charlotte941]

So what? So have several businesses in the porn industry. So what? Ebay ratings are engineered all the time. Look at some of the Chinese counterfeit importers. So what? Ron Popeil, and Billy Mays are also members of the BBB. Putting shill ratings on HC reviews is surprisingly easy. No credentials required. Inferior instrument? Probably not, but it is not nearly the instrument it is hyped as, or charged for. Have a real luthier set that Taylor up properly , and it will be a thousand times the instrument that Zager is. Reviews from paid shills such as yourself are useless. You have 33 posts here and all you have done in each of them is plug, troll, and shill for Zager. You have posted no pictures of your Zager. You have posted no sound clips of your Zager. YOU ARE DECEIVING NO ONE HERE!

 

 

LOLOLOL! So your simple answer to 2700+ Postive Ebay Feedbacks is they're all shills? Your answer to thousands of positive reviews is they're all shills? Denny must have several thousand shills posting for him at all hours of the day 24/7....LOL! Have you ever contacted any of these so called shills? If you did (like I did) before I purchased my Zager you will find they are actual customers who were extremely happy with their guitars and wrote glowing reviews for that reason. As mentioned in my previous email the $4500 Taylor WAS SET UP and it still did not play nearly as easy as the Zager. And lastly, when all is said and done and you paid $4500 for your Taylor what is the resale value going to be? The minute you walk out of a store with that type of guitar you lose 1/3rd its value. You would be lucky to get $2500-3000 the following year. I just looked on Ebay and found a Zager ZAD80CE with a buy now price of $1250. THIS GUITAR SOLD ON THE ZAGER SITE FOR $895 LAST YEAR. I buy a Taylor and lose several grand. I buy a Zager and it goes up in value 33%!!! By the way, here's a link to the Zager on Ebay...I actually post factual information on my posts: http://cgi.ebay.com/Zager-Guitar_W0QQitemZ180267977453QQihZ008QQcategoryZ47064QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[Galabar]

LOLOLOL! So your simple answer to 2700+ Postive Ebay Feedbacks is they're all shills? Your answer to thousands of positive reviews is they're all shills? Denny must have several thousand shills posting for him at all hours of the day 24/7....LOL! Have you ever contacted any of these so called shills? If you did (like I did) before I purchased my Zager you will find they are actual customers who were extremely happy with their guitars and wrote glowing reviews for that reason. As mentioned in my previous email the $4500 Taylor WAS SET UP and it still did not play nearly as easy as the Zager. And lastly, when all is said and done and you paid $4500 for your Taylor what is the resale value going to be? The minute you walk out of a store with that type of guitar you lose 1/3rd its value. You would be lucky to get $2500-3000 the following year. I just looked on Ebay and found a Zager ZAD80CE with a buy now price of $1250. THIS GUITAR SOLD ON THE ZAGER SITE FOR $895 LAST YEAR. I buy a Taylor and lose several grand. I buy a Zager and it goes up in value 33%!!! By the way, here's a link to the Zager on Ebay...I actually post factual information on my posts: http://cgi.ebay.com/Zager-Guitar_W0QQitemZ180267977453QQihZ008QQcategoryZ47064QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

 

I don't want to get in the middle of this argument. However, I feel the need to point out that a "Buy It Now" price does not necessarily reflect the final purchase price (and almost certainly won't for this item).

 

Let's instill a little intellectual honesty into our arguments please.

[Charlotte941]

I don't want to get in the middle of this argument. However, I feel the need to point out that a "Buy It Now" price does not necessarily reflect the final purchase price (and almost certainly won't for this item). Let's instill a little intellectual honesty into our arguments please.

 

Then let's just assume then that it brings what the owner paid for it originally last year. Try doing that with with your $4500 Taylor. Try doing that with most any brand these days.

[Charlotte941]

 

Oh, I didn't know you owned one. I suppose you've played several personally before giving us your wonderful personal feedback on this forum. Very poor unsubstantiated answer smart guy. Have a real luthier set that Taylor up properly , and it will be a thousand times the instrument that Zager is.

 

 

So not only do I have to pay $4500 for my Taylor but then I have to go find a luthier that I trust (if that's even possible) and pay even more money? Also, does your luthier warranty his work with a money back guarantee and life time warranty if he damages my $4500 investment?

 

 

I'm getting the feeling if anyone is a shill here it's you. You post unsubstantiated answers with no evidence whatsoever. I'll be posting pictures of my guitar shortly.

[Galabar]

Here is a listing of recently sold Zager guitars on ebay:

 

http://instruments.search-completed.ebay.com/Zager_Musical-Instruments_W0QQcatrefZC5QQdfspZ1QQfbdZ1QQfclZ3QQfisZ2QQflocZ1QQfposZ98006QQfromZR6QQfrppZ200QQfsooZ1QQfsopZ1QQfssZ0QQftrtZ1QQftrvZ1QQnojsprZyQQpfidZ0QQsaaffZafdefaultQQsabfmtsZ0QQsacatZ619QQsacqyopZgeQQsacurZ0QQsadisZ200QQsaobfmtsZexsifQQsargnZQ2d1QQsaslcZ0QQsaslopZ1QQsofocusZbs

 

If this link doesn't work for you, just do a search for recently sold items. Factoring in the case and accessories included, the final price for these guitars is around $150 less than the current online price at Zager. So, we are talking about a 20%-30% drop in value.

 

Admittedly, this is better than some other guitars that I've seen, but I'll point out that (a) the sample size is small and (b) a 20%-30% drop is not a 33% increase. :poke:

 

If I were to guess, I would say that the guitar that you linked to will sell for maybe 20% below the original price, which isn't terrible.

 

Now, having said all that, it may not say anything about the guitars value -- folks could have just bought into the hype. I'm not saying that is the case, but I can't say that it isn't the case either.

[Brokepick]

 

By the way, here's a link to the Zager on Ebay...I actually post factual information on my posts:

 

 

Again, coming from the Zager site, it's suspect.

 

Can't something be done about this guy?

[JasonA]

What I want to know is... who pays $4500 for a Taylor?

[JasonA]

What I want to know is... who pays $4500 for a Taylor?

 

[R Taylors excepted of course...]

[Brokepick]

 

....You post unsubstantiated answers with no evidence whatsoever....

 

 

"People who live in glass houses should not throw rocks."

[valentsgrif]

I've been following ebay sales of Zager for about two years out of curiousity and they do, indeed, consistently sell in good/excellent condition for about $100-150 off new.

 

For a lot of people, this is a guitar they buy after trying to learn acoustic on some gift Estaban or WalMart guitar and struggling with the string height and heavy strings. It is a breath of fresh air, and the owners I know have been thrilled.

 

This might explain the number of new posters on here who shoot out a favorable review and never come back. Were they duped by buying a Zager? Maybe. But when you're not a sophisticated AG forum junkie and someone promises you a no risk, easy playing instrument, you in your mind make up what price is reasonable. If so many people were truly ripped off there'd have to be a ton angry purchasers and bad press, and so far it hasn't surfaced.

[Brokepick]

 

I've been following ebay sales of Zager for about two years out of curiousity and they do, indeed, consistently sell in good/excellent condition for about $100-150 off new. For a lot of people, this is a guitar they buy after trying to learn acoustic on some gift Estaban or WalMart guitar and struggling with the string height and heavy strings. It is a breath of fresh air, and the owners I know have been thrilled. This might explain the number of new posters on here who shoot out a favorable review and never come back. Were they duped by buying a Zager? Maybe. But when you're not a sophisticated AG forum junkie and someone promises you a no risk, easy playing instrument, you in your mind make up what price is reasonable. If so many people were truly ripped off there'd have to be a ton angry purchasers and bad press, and so far it hasn't surfaced.

 

 

True. No angry mobs, except on the forums. Have most of the Zager owners been intimidated by the bad press here? I'm sorry, I just can't take the ones like Charlotte941 seriously.

[valentsgrif]

 

You present a convincing argument. I can't fault your logic or your purchase. You are willing to pay the extra money for what Zager offers. You are genuinely happy with your Zager. So is Bubbalou. Cool. Are you typical? Could you in good conscience, tell some newbie who knows nothing about guitars that all the information found on Zager's website can be relied on, and that noob is getting the best guitar he/she can for the money if he/she buys from Zager? If that noob were me, I would appreciate someone at least pointing out the omissions and misdirections in Zager's sales hype.

 

 

Everybody sells with hype. (Do you really believe that if you wear a certain cologne or have a certain mark of car you'll be more attractive to women and get laid like Sinatra?). I suspect that acoustic guitar guys are by nature a little hypersensitive to Madison Avenues style sales hyperbole. Probably would be repulsed at even a little exageration in any advertising for hemp shoes.