It's Official! I asked Zager for a Refund

[Maximum]

 

Nobody around here every credibly trashed the construction or tone of the Martin Sigmas. In fact they were fairly well received around here for a sub $500 guitar. So, I don't know what the "cheap" talk is all about. And who is mislead? I'd like to see a post somewhere over the last 7 years where someone bitched and said "Crap, I thought I was getting a $1900 Martin and it was just a well set up, but overpriced import". Finally, if these great unwashed innocents who you so earnestly post to protect are happy with their guitar, who cares? If its the fact that it burns you how much a guy is making, then put your green with jealousy hat on and get over it.

 

 

It's nothing against the Sigmas -- it's the feeling that Sigma plus good setup equals $250-350 value, whereas Mr. Z gives you basically that for $600, but tells you you're getting much more.

 

Speaking personally, I definitely got infomercialized by the string science -- while I thought it was hokey and silly advertising, I did believe that maybe he was doing something really different (also, it was 2 AM, and my fingers were killing me after playing for a couple of hours, so my judgment was clouded).

 

After playing it side by side with an old Goya/Martin -- in my opinion, a 1980s equivalent of the Sigma -- that I had restrung with the same strings Denny supplied, I determined that (1) in a blind A/B playing comparison, they played identically -- truly almost indistinguishable in playability and feel, and (2) in a blind A/B listening comparison both members of my family that sat through the whole thing and rated 10 sample bits I played gave every Goya bit a higher score than the equivalent Zager bit - 100%. I am a strong believer in blind tests for comparisons.

 

My mother bought that Goya for me in 1987 for $75 (I don't know how, but she remembers the price -- moms!). For $660 (including case) Denny ought to be able to beat the Goya in sound and playability.

 

Then, for less than $600 I bought a Guild GAD which immediately got strong positive reactions from my audience (small though it may be).

 

At least for me, the one saving grace is their incredible return policy. Whatever else he's doing, Denny clearly truly believes in his product. Personally, I think Denny genuinely believes he's giving fair value for the dollar. Does that make his marketing ok? Maybe, because sincerity does count. Does that make sending shills OK? No, because that's inherently misleading.

[Brokepick]

 

....At least for me, the one saving grace is their incredible return policy...

 

 

At the markup they get on those guitars, they can afford that incredible return policy.

[Bubbalou]

 

I got a reply within 10 minutes. Check it out!!! Hi John, I will help you...no worries. When was your original purchase? For some reason I cannot find your name during the last 60 days. If I'm correct I show that you made your original purchase over 1 year ago. We have a lifetime warranty on all of our guitars and we will fix your guitar for life but we cannot do a return on a guitar that where the original purchase was over 1 year ago. No guitar company in the world does this. (If they did they would be out of business) If you're still having a problem with your guitar we can pick it up free of charge, I will have Denny fix it free of charge and we will return it free of charge. No other guitar company offers this type of warranty work and this might be why our guitars receiving higher ratings then the 4 largest guitar producers combined but we always take care of our customers. If you have any questions, please let me know. Warmest regards, Dennis Zager Jr. and then I got this without even responding to his email: Hi John, Denny and I are in the recording studio working late tonight and I ran your situation past him. He said if you are truly unhappy with your guitar we will accept it back. As almost all of our business these days comes from referral we want our customers happy...even if you've used it for a year we'll cover all costs. No harm done either way. As this is Denny's last year producing guitars we have customers waiting for even the used ones. I will have my assistant email you a UPS return label first thing tomorrow morning. In this way you can hand it to any UPS driver and they will bring it back to us free of charge to you. Feel free to keep all the extra goodies...all we need is the guitar. If you have any questions, please let me know. Warmest regards, Dennis Zager Jr. I love it!!! "Recording studio working late tonight." Too funny. That little Indonisian kid who is responding after hours is good!

 

 

 

Your a first class act. After a year of owning the guitar you crawl back to the dealer, ask for a refund that almost no one in the whole world would even consider doing at that point in time of ownership, they graciously offer to take it back for total refund then you add your cheap shot remark at the end.

Unbelievable, try that on your present guitar's maker/dealer

[Brokepick]

Your a first class act. After a year of owning the guitar you crawl back to the dealer, ask for a refund that almost no one in the whole world would even consider doing at that point in time of ownership, they graciously offer to take it back for total refund then you add your cheap shot remark at the end. Unbelievable, try that on your present guitar's maker/dealer

 

Denny is fully aware of the attention he's getting here. Sounds like a good strategic publicity stunt to me.

[HankGator]

Why am I reminded of when Newman was feeding lines to Kramer through a bookshelf to help him with a girl, and when she mentioned "junk mail" he started babbling on about how there is really no such thing as junk mail, all mail is important, every piece of mail ...

[totamus]

And that is why it is important to constantly state, for the benefit of the search engines, that Zager guitars are NOT a good deal and are not a recommended instrument as there are better instruments available for far less money.

[Bubbalou]

 

And that is why it is important to constantly state, for the benefit of the search engines, that Zager guitars are NOT a good deal and are not a recommended instrument as there are better instruments available for far less money.

 

 

Having tried many lately, I have not found any better sounding or better playiing for less than $800. Those were Breedlove, Alvarez and Martin with only Breedlove being near the price while the Martin's higher. The ones I tried were Seagull, Alvarez, Takamine, Martin, Taylor, Gibson, and Fender.

 

Fender did not compete, the Alvarez guitars were $550-$1200, Martin's $1400, $1695, $2495, The Taylor's were min. $1500, the Gibson's $2000-$2500, the Seagull $700, Takamines $495-$695 and The Breedlove's $995 and $2500. The Seagull sounded ok but the action a little high, none of the Takamines measured up of the ones they had. The Breedlove at $995 sounded and played just as good. Of coarse the Martins and the $2500 Breedlove were excellent guitars.

With that, I have found that my ZAD-80CE was worth the money spent as compared to the others I have tried. In addition, I had a guy (without letting him see what it was try my guitar when he was playing the Breedloves. He and the Guitar Center Salesperson said I have a nice sounding guitar. The guy playing it asked me "What kind of guitar is this" I told him to look at the Headstock and asked him if he remembered the song "In the year 2525" (he was my age 56). He said "Is he still alive?".

He said it was a nice guitar and asked all kinds of questions about it. I was going to spare you guys this info as it took place on Saturday when I went thinking I needed another guitar like a Martin to get better low end but found while testing several on a Crate CA30DG Acoustic guitar amp I discovered my whole problem was using my guitar amp instead of an amp specially designed for Acoustic Guitars.

Now beat this to death like I know you typically will but it is the absolute truth as I was sure it was my guitar being the problem and found a $1400 Martin that I was sure was going home with me to replace my guitar but was pleasantly surprised to find mine sounded and played just as well as the Breedlove and Martins I tried. With that, I bought the Crate CA30DG Acoustic guitar amp as I realized playing my acoustic through my electric guitar amp was my whole problem to begin with.

[FlyinFlip]

xx

[Ohioarrow]

Having tried many lately, I have not found any better sounding or better playiing for less than $800. Those were Breedlove, Alvarez and Martin with only Breedlove being near the price while the Martin's higher. The ones I tried were Seagull, Alvarez, Takamine, Martin, Taylor, Gibson, and Fender.

 

Nah Bubbalou isn't a shill is he?

 

[jtjpilot]

 

Your a first class act. After a year of owning the guitar you crawl back to the dealer, ask for a refund that almost no one in the whole world would even consider doing at that point in time of ownership, they graciously offer to take it back for total refund then you add your cheap shot remark at the end. Unbelievable, try that on your present guitar's maker/dealer

 

 

 

Dude that wasn't part of the email that I sent him:poke:

[Bubbalou]

Flyinflip, not sure what to make of your post there, however, I am not saying whether Denny buys a guitar at a cheap price, performs his stuff on it the sells it at a considerably higher price or not. I am not privy to this information except what I read here. My one and only point was to say that for the Money I spent, the sound and playability was the same as for an equal priced guitar and maybe a little higher also. I am in no way saying it is as good as a very expensive Martin, Taylor, or Gibson.

[Bubbalou]

 

Dude that wasn't part of the email that I sent him:poke:

 

 

 

Yes, I know, it was written here for all to see. Maybe a joke, huh?

[Bubbalou]

Nah Bubbalou isn't a shill is he?

 

 

Might have looked more like I meant it to if I had of put it this way:

Having tried many lately, I have not found any better sounding or better playiing for less than $800. The ones I tried were Seagull, Alvarez, Takamine, Martin, Taylor, Gibson, and Fender. Of these the $995 Breedlove was the only one near the price I paid that sounded and played similar to mine. I am not saying my guitar equaled higher priced Martin, Taylor or Gibsons by any stretch of the means. I am only saying I got my monies worth as it matched like priced and slightly higher priced acoustics I played. Most of my A/B ing came after I reading all this negative press about my guitar and thinking maybe I got ripped off so I went to 3 different stores and tried what was available (unplugged Until this last trip to Guitar Center to get me another guitar I would like even if it cost $1500).

 

I am beginning to think a certain handful here are shills for Martin and Taylor.

What does a shill get paid For Martin and Taylor?

[Crab_Cake]

Are we STILL talking about this?

 

GIVE IT A REST!

 

 

 

 

No more zager talk please, that means you to bubbalou.

 

Thank you and goodnight

[Charlotte941]

I am beginning to think a certain handful here are shills for Martin and Taylor.

What does a shill get paid For Martin and Taylor?

 

You are correct. There are actually many shills here for Martin, Taylor, and various other brands but you will see more for the big 4 (Martin, Taylor, Gibson and Fender) because these are the largest companies who have the most money to spend on these type of campaigns. Do you want to know why? If you look at the banner advertising at the top of all of these forum pages you will see advertising from companies like Fishman and Korg, but you will also see advertising from guitar retailers like Musicians Friend, Music 123 and Guitar Center, etc. who sell Martin, Taylor, Gibson and Fender brands.....but they do not sell Zager. It's in their best interest to steer customers away from direct competition like Zager. Companies like Zager are a serious threat to retailers like Guitar Center and Musicians Friend and they will do everything in their power to scare potential customers away from companies like Zager who refuse to sell to middlemen retailers like these. Here are the facts:

 

1. Zager has been in business since 1969

 

2. Zager has been an Ebay Power Seller for close to 10 years and is the highest rated guitar seller on Ebay with 2700+ Positive feedback without 1 negative. Sorry fellas, you don't get this kind of rating just delivering the product on time. If you don't believe this contact the buyers of these guitars like I have. Their contact information is available on Ebay.

 

3. Zager has been a member of the Better Business Bureau since 1969 and has a flawless BBB rating. If Zager sold a poor quality product, or refused to pay out on their money back guarantee I don't think they would have a 40 year flawless record.

 

4. Zager has one of the highest rankings of any brand on Harmony Central guitar reviews with several thousand reviews and most ratings 9.5 or higher. This is better then many Martin and Taylor brands folks, and the people who reviewed these guitars DO post their contact information and I did in fact contact several of these people and they backed up their reviews.

 

5. Lastly, I truly find it hard to believe that Zager would ship an inferior quality instrument and at the same time be the only guitar company in the world to offer a money back guarantee that includes shipping fees both ways. I have read many reviews and testimonials from customers who said they tried a Zager and for whatever reason returned it and were given all their money back including shipping fees both ways. As expensive as shipping is these days with gas prices what they are I find it hard to believe Zager could afford to stay in business offering this type of guarantee.

 

Do your research on Zager folks, and when you do you will find consistent positive factual information everywhere you look except for forums like this that are owned by the big brands who advertise here. In a forum like this all you will see is inconsistent information from paid shills who have been here for years spouting lies and half truths to confuse newbie players. Also, if you look at some of the members spouting the most garbage you will see that they're posting messages all day long every day of the week. I find it hard to believe that these members would spend all their working hours doing this just for fun without pay. I don't know about you but I would be fired if I was at work all day posting messages on some guitar forum as many of these so called members (shills) consistently do.

[totamus]

Charlotte is a shill, and an obvious one at that. Zager guitars are an inferior product which is very overpriced. To buy a Zager guitar, after reading the various posts in AG and HCAG is an act of Lunacy. Friends don't let friends buy Zager Guitars.

 

Charlotte - please go away, you are wearisome and seek only to lure the unsuspecting into making uninformed decisions.

 

Disclaimer: If you actually own a Zager - we will help you not make the same mistake again. You are welcome. If you are here to promote Zager guitars be aware that each and every pro zager post will be met with one or more truthful posts that will balance out your attempts to manipulate google.

[Brokepick]

 

MALE BOVINE FECAL MATTER!

 

Like a turd in the toilet bowl. This thread floats to the top again. And who brings it to the top? THE CONFIRMED ZAGER SHILL! Go tell Denny to bug off!

 

ANY OF THIS STRING SCIENCE CRAP PUT ON HERE WILL BE ANSWERED BY THE FACTS. ZAGER GUITARS ARE SEVERELY OVERHYPED AND OVERPRICED MEDIOCRE CHINESE IMPORTS! EQUIVALENT GUITARS CAN BE FOUND AT ANY ONE OF HUNDREDS OF SELLERS FOR HALF THE PRICE ZAGER CHARGES, AND A GOOD STRING HEIGHT ADJUSTMENT BY A REAL LUTHIER CAN MAKE THEM PLAY EVERY BIT AS GOOD AS A ZAGER, FOR A FRACTION OF ZAGER'S MARKUP.

[Crab_Cake]

I reported you charlotte to the mods. Could everyone else report him as well.

 

Click the little red triangle under their avatar.

 

TY

 

Mr. Zager could you please stop posting shills and come to this forum and explain yourself. Stop being a coward, please. Thank you.

[totamus]

Everyone on the board should buy a Zager - and then return it. That would stop the BS

[totamus]

 

I reported you charlotte to the mods. Could everyone else report him as well. Click the little red triangle under their avatar. TY Mr. Zager could you please stop posting shills and come to this forum and explain yourself. Stop being a coward, please. Thank you.

 

 

I reported him also.

[OldGuitarPlayer]

What Denny Zager does smells of typical mail order scam. I worked in the mail order scam industry for five years so I know something about this. Denny Zager is not a Master Luthier and I seriously doubt that he even sees any of the guitars that have his name on them. They are more than likely shipped from Indonesia or China to his warehouse and someone else puts his "signature" on the back before they are shipped out to the customers.

 

Anyhow...if Zager owners are happy paying $800 for a $100 guitar more power to 'em!

 

Ignorance is bliss....

 

By the way...I am with totamus on this...keep up the good work my man.

[totamus]

Thanks bro!

[Bubbalou]

Ignorance is bliss....

 

Yes, it seems to be in abundance on this forum.

 

If you took that bet about Denny not seeing these guitars with his name on them you would loose. He sends a poloroid photo of himself doing a final inspection the guitar you are buying.

 

Also, If these are $100 guitars then so are about 2/3's of the Under $1000 guitars I played. I just played more guitars this morning while checking out a couple of Crate amps at Guitar Center. Many looked and felt cheaper (Takamine, Ibanez, to name a few) and they cost $300-600. I did play a Martin that was quite nice and a Seagull Maritime Mini Jumbo that was a quality guitar at a good price (yes, I know it was made in Canada).

[arzy]

 

This is over the top! I actually thought Charlotte941 was sarcastically attacking the Zagerites with his silly endorsement of Zager (Denny has a good BBB ranking, so his guitars are superior? Yeah, right! I mean, that's why people say that Taylor, Martin, Breedlove, Santa Cruz, etc., make good guitars--it's their BBB rankings!), and then I got to the end, scratched my head, read other folks' responses, and looked at Charlotte's old posts to refresh my memory, and my God! He's serious!

 

You know, there's a book in the "For Dummies" series: "Guitar for Dummies." Well, perhaps Zager should sell his guitars as "Guitars for Dummies."

[Bubbalou]

This is over the top! I actually thought Charlotte941 was sarcastically attacking the Zagerites with his silly endorsement of Zager (Denny has a good BBB ranking, so his guitars are superior? Yeah, right! I mean, that's why people say that Taylor, Martin, Breedlove, Santa Cruz, etc., make good guitars--it's their BBB rankings!), and then I got to the end, scratched my head, read other folks' responses, and looked at Charlotte's old posts to refresh my memory, and my God! He's serious! You know, there's a book in the "For Dummies" series: "Guitar for Dummies." Well, perhaps Zager should sell his guitars as "Guitars for Dummies."

 

To say that Denny has a good BBB ranking is a fact (as per me checking them out when I worried about things after reading negative posts) and showing good customer service. To rate guitar making skills based upon that fact alone is absurd at best.

 

Your comment about a "Guitar for Dummies" book for Zager, well after reading all the negative posts such as this one you wrote I began to think maybe I needed that book. Then as stated before in earlier posts I went to get me a better guitar, found a $1400 Martin with a Prefix Blend Preamp/tuner and it was beautiful sounding with awesome lowend. Then I reluctantly plugged my ZAD-80CE into the little Crate amp they had in the show room and could not believe it sounded good also. I then bought the little Crate amp. It makes my guitar sound beautiful lowend to highend in a way that my Peavey Bandit 112 85 watt rms with 12" speaker could not. I am now sold on the fact that an Acoustic needs a good amp made just for an Acoustic guitar. Electric Guitar amps just don't hack it.