Members ambient Posted February 16, 2011 Members Share Posted February 16, 2011 Hey guys, My partner gave me a Yamaha FG-151B for Christmas. It's in great cosmetic condition and sounds awesome. The problem is that the action is rather high making playing much above the 5th or 7th fret rather uncomfortable. When I first got it, the neck was a bit bowed (concave) so I gave the truss rod a wee tweak. I found that the nut was completely loose and adjusted it a few times (going slow). Now the neck itself seems to be reasonably straight. With a capo on the 1st fret, and fingering the highest fret there's about 1mm of clearance above the fret wire with the centre of the curve looking to be around the 9th fret. The problem is (when no frets are fingered or capo'd) there is still 5mm between the 12th fret and the 6th string, and about 4.5mm for the 1st string. Now theres only about 1mm clearance at the first string so the nut looks to be fine. What can I do to remedy this? Is there something I can do with the bridge (non compensated) or could it be a problem with the neck joint? I don't have much (any) experience setting up acoustics as I've been playing electric guitars almost exclusively for the last 10 years. Adjustable saddles are nice Right now this guitar is sadly quite a bit of effort to play, I wish it wasn't so. Thanks in advance for your help guys, let me know if there's any info I've missed out. I'll post some pics shortly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ambient Posted February 16, 2011 Author Members Share Posted February 16, 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ambient Posted February 16, 2011 Author Members Share Posted February 16, 2011 Oh yea in that 2nd to last pic you can see the the string pegs/bobbins/whatever they're called don't all go in the whole way. Is there anything I can do about that? Is it even a problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ambient Posted February 16, 2011 Author Members Share Posted February 16, 2011 I cross posted this in the effects forum (kinda my home ground and gets more traffic). Anyway there was a couple of relevant responses that led me to post some more pics: Judging by the last pic, this one seems to need a neck reset.. Does the neck joint look to be cracked or separated from the body at all? Maybe take a pic of that from the back and sides. The only crack I can see in that area is less than a centimeter long and goes more along the neck than around it: Otherwise the neck joint looks like: Also take one as if you were sighting down the neck from the headstock and try to capture the bow. (basically the opposite of the last pic) These didn't turn out as well, let me know if you need me to take em again: Also, does there seem be a swelling or a "belly" in the wood on the top under the bridge? You can basically feel it.. Yea there is unfortunately: I assume this is a plywood top, correct? I don't think so, looks like this: Also, some guitars just suffer from a bad combination of climate change and being kept out of the case during the wrong months. And theres only so much you can take down that saddle.. Also, as soon as you take those pics, loosen the strings all the way to take the tension off the neck. This one does not look playable. Also, if the bridge pins don't fit all the way in, there are ways to remedy that.. but thats definitely not your problem here. The guy who had it before me didn't even have a case and it gets both pretty hot and cold here. Thanks for your help, even though it doesn't make me very happy. do you think there's much I can do? It was a gift so it's kinda sentimental. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ambient Posted February 16, 2011 Author Members Share Posted February 16, 2011 so the neck is as straight as it will go with the truss rod? Are all your braces inside the guitar in tact, Sometimes the bridge can lift up or sink in when there is a broken brace inside. I haven't tried to straighten it any more...I didn't want to over do it I guess and with 1mm of relief, is that the problem? I took some pics of the inside to check the bracing: Looks ok? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members garthman Posted February 16, 2011 Members Share Posted February 16, 2011 It looks to me as if it needs a neck re-set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ambient Posted February 16, 2011 Author Members Share Posted February 16, 2011 It looks to me as if it needs a neck re-set. Yea that's what the other guy said. The bulge around the bridge doesn't seem to healthy either. I'm only new to the country so don't know any shops or techs. I'll have to see if the Mrs. can find a luthier in the area I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members katopp Posted February 16, 2011 Members Share Posted February 16, 2011 Yea that's what the other guy said. The bulge around the bridge doesn't seem to healthy either.I'm only new to the country so don't know any shops or techs. I'll have to see if the Mrs. can find a luthier in the area I guess. I beg to differ.First, the bulge behind the bridge is to be expected, nothing bad with that. All Flattops do have a slight belly. Only when it's excessive it becomes an issue.Second, a relief of 1 MILLIMETER is way too much. Capo at first, press down at 14, measure at the middle. You should aim for a thickness of a businesscard for relief.To check for a neck reset, get a straightege and hold it down the fretboard, lay it on a straightened'ish neck and see, where the end of the straightedge ends. If it ends below the bridge height, it's not good - but then I have a factory new FG that had a "low" neck angle and it still has a good action and plays great. I checked some other FG's at the local store and they were all consistently "low", maybe that's a Yamaha feature and not a bug.Third, it's a three-layer plywood top from what it looks like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ambient Posted February 16, 2011 Author Members Share Posted February 16, 2011 I beg to differ.First, the bulge behind the bridge is to be expected, nothing bad with that. All Flattops do have a slight belly. Only when it's excessive it becomes an issue.Second, a relief of 1 MILLIMETER is way too much. Capo at first, press down at 14, measure at the middle. You should aim for a thickness of a businesscard for relief.To check for a neck reset, get a straightege and hold it down the fretboard, lay it on a straightened'ish neck and see, where the end of the straightedge ends. If it ends below the bridge height, it's not good - but then I have a factory new FG that had a "low" neck angle and it still has a good action and plays great. I checked some other FG's at the local store and they were all consistently "low", maybe that's a Yamaha feature and not a bug.Third, it's a three-layer plywood top from what it looks like. Interesting...I wasn't measuring the relief from the 14th fret but from the 20th. I'll give it another try and report back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ambient Posted February 16, 2011 Author Members Share Posted February 16, 2011 should I be adjusting the truss rod with the strings at tension or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ambient Posted February 16, 2011 Author Members Share Posted February 16, 2011 I just checked. If I fret both the 1st and 14th frets there is only a business card sized gap between the string and frets but if nothing is fretted, the gap is several millimeters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members katopp Posted February 16, 2011 Members Share Posted February 16, 2011 I just checked. If I fret both the 1st and 14th frets there is only a business card sized gap between the string and frets but if nothing is fretted, the gap is several millimeters. So the relief seems to be ok.Check with the straightedge, but it looks like a neck reset is due. Unfortunately it might be too expensive for an old lam Yam... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LiFeStArTs@40 Posted February 16, 2011 Members Share Posted February 16, 2011 At a glance it doesn't look it's re-set material... yet. The action at the nut looks too high and there's plenty of bridge left for lowering the action with out losing string angle. You REALLY need to take it to a good luthier or tech and have a complete set up done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members daklander Posted February 16, 2011 Members Share Posted February 16, 2011 Yea that's what the other guy said. The bulge around the bridge doesn't seem to healthy either. I'm only new to the country so don't know any shops or techs. I'll have to see if the Mrs. can find a luthier in the area I guess. This is completely normal. Go here to see how to check neck angle and tell if the guitar needs a neck reset. It looks from the pics like it does. Here's a picture of the bad belly that you don't want on an acoustic. It's caused by string tension over time rolling the bridge toward the neck and that will dip the top at the sound hole side of the bridge and raise the top behind the bridge. That will cause high action as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ambient Posted February 16, 2011 Author Members Share Posted February 16, 2011 At a glance it doesn't look it's re-set material... yet. The action at the nut looks too high and there's plenty of bridge left for lowering the action with out losing string angle. You REALLY need to take it to a good luthier or tech and have a complete set up done. The action at the nut is actually pretty comfy. There's 1mm or so of clearance at the 1st fret, surely that wouldn't account for the 5mm of clearance at the 12th? I guess it'll be seeing a luthier one way or another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted February 16, 2011 Members Share Posted February 16, 2011 Katopp, Garth and Dak have given you perfect advice - the only thing I can add is that some old Yamaha's are very difficult to reset the necks and I will be interested in hearing what your repair person says about your. It definitely looks like it needs one, but you may find out that it is not cost effective to do it. I build and work on guitars, including resetting necks, and I happen to have an old FG that needs it done - I'm just not sure it is possible. Please report back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Yamaneck Posted February 16, 2011 Members Share Posted February 16, 2011 Contact me about resetting the neck on this. I do Yamahas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members garthman Posted February 16, 2011 Members Share Posted February 16, 2011 If it does need a neck re-set (and I think it does) it's probably not worth spending the money. In the meantime, to make it more playable, you could try tightening the trussrod until the neck is flat (or rather until the strings are laying flat on the frets when you do the 1st and 15th fret test). See if the guitar plays OK without fret buzz when you have adjusted the rod. If it's OK you could then try sanding down the saddle a touch - it seems pretty low already but you might get it a little lower. Also a set of lighter strings might help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted February 16, 2011 Members Share Posted February 16, 2011 Contact me about resetting the neck on this. I do Yamahas. OP is in Japan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bluzboy Posted February 16, 2011 Members Share Posted February 16, 2011 If it does need a neck re-set (and I think it does) it's probably not worth spending the money. In the meantime, to make it more playable, you could try tightening the trussrod until the neck is flat. Looks like a sweet guitar (a Nippon Gakki, too). There's still a good amount of saddle there. I would try sanding it down a bit before tightening the trussrod or going the reset route. ETA: And I wouldn't worry about the bridgepins; they look fine. Nice interior photos, btw! How did you take those? ETA-2: Just looked at the photo taken from the bridge POV. That neck still looks a bit bowed to me, so tightening up the trussrod a bit actually would be a good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members zenbu Posted February 17, 2011 Members Share Posted February 17, 2011 from the pic of the top, looks like a typical 3 layer top though hard to see due to the flash but if you have a watchmakers loupe have a peek, appears to be a thin top layer...thicker mid...thin bottom layer, the grain lines don`t seem to line up in the pic but I could be wrong, not very clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ambient Posted February 17, 2011 Author Members Share Posted February 17, 2011 from the pic of the top, looks like a typical 3 layer top though hard to see due to the flash but if you have a watchmakers loupe have a peek, appears to be a thin top layer...thicker mid...thin bottom layer, the grain lines don`t seem to line up in the pic but I could be wrong, not very clear. Yea the flash doesn't make it easy. You might be right though. What difference does a ply top make vs a solid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members garthman Posted February 17, 2011 Members Share Posted February 17, 2011 Good call on the lighter strings and I'll give the truss another tweak. Any advice on sanding the bridge down? I've never had to do it before. Follow the instructions here: http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/Musician/Guitar/Setup/LowerAction/loweraction01.html PS. But I would take care about using the measurements - if the neck does need resetting it may cause you to lower the saddle too much. Just take off approx 1mm then if the guitar still plays OK you can repeat the procedure. Slow and steady is the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.