Members Tgrimley Posted September 13, 2011 Members Share Posted September 13, 2011 I was just curious as to why the subject of recording schools is such a thorny issue?The very mention of it seems to evoke battle cries. I was wondering is this from some personal experience or some other reason. I am not intending this to be a "I went to XYZ recording school and it's the only way to go" I believe there are merits in all forms of music education. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Surrealistic Posted September 13, 2011 Members Share Posted September 13, 2011 I didn't know this was a thorny issue that evoked battle cries. Please feel free to enlighten me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueStrat Posted September 13, 2011 Members Share Posted September 13, 2011 I'll give you my 2 cents. Recording school grads tend to be like live sound techs who learn everything from manuals. ME: "We're getting feedback through the monitors". TECH: "You shouldn't be. I have the 4 K nearly all the way down. " ME: Maybe we shouldn't be, but we are. Have you tried turning the input gains down and turning the individual monitor sends up a little?" TECH: "Oh, well, see, your inputs are pegging fine on the VU meter, so that can't be the problem....'' The best way to learn recording is to find a great studio and apprentice with a engineer who knows his stuff. I suppose a school would be okay to learn basics, but reakly learning the craft takes working closely with someone who has it down. IMO, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators daddymack Posted September 13, 2011 Moderators Share Posted September 13, 2011 plus, these schools turn out hundreds of graduates a year...and there just are not that many jobs in a shrinking marketplace. Plus most teach on older gear, and basically fill you up with a lot of technical jargon no one in the real biz gives a rat's patootie about...How do I know? Well, my late partner was a graduate of one of those programs...and aside from our sound business, never worked in a studio. Knew a ton of useless stuff, but at the end of the day, he came to realize that what he was hearing was more important than what the dials and meters indicated. Most (nearly all) engineers I have worked with over the last few decades came up the old fashioned way...they learned as an apprentice, sweeping floors, emptying the trash, getting coffee and lunch for their mentors, who imparted the knowledge to them gradually and nurtured their skills. These schools also charge a lot of money, and the basics you really need can be learned elsewhere for a lot less....like on the internet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members A. Einstein Posted September 13, 2011 Members Share Posted September 13, 2011 As far as I know, you learn something in this fast bleaching schools, and if you are lucky you may get a job at a recording, broadcast or movie stage facility making coffee for the staff, cleaning the toilets and shipping the music to the clients. Maybe you are a genius and records the next mega seller band, or single artist. Who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members richardmac Posted September 13, 2011 Members Share Posted September 13, 2011 I think the hallmark of a good program is job placement. If a school has a great record of placing people into industry jobs, then it might be worth looking into. If they leave that totally up to the student or do not have a good track record, then buyer beware. Full Sail is in Orlando near us, and they definitely have awesome and current gear there. They cost a fortune. I don't know about their placement record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members CME Posted September 13, 2011 Members Share Posted September 13, 2011 Just saw this thought I'd chime in. Sounds like they are a lot like the "Motorcycle Institutes". My lively hood comes from working bikes in a shop my parents and I own. We've had half a dozen or so "PHD's". They have for the most part been good parts changers and could probably make a good parts guy. They so far have not been mechanics. They teach them how to change parts and not how to diagnose and really fix problems. If you're not a mechanic and mechanically inclined going in, you won't be coming out. However if you kinda know what you're doing and want to expand your knowledge you could probably learn a lot in a short time. However you're probably better off getting a job at a shop changing oil and tires and working your way up. You're pretty much gonna have to do that anyways. I'm guessing these audio schools might be kind of the same. They show you how to make all the gear work, but it doesn't mean they'll really understand how to use it. Even when you do graduate, and if you do find a job, you're gonna be making coffee and taking out the trash. You'll probably be a bit a head of the curve, but enough to warrant the cost? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MargeHowel Posted September 13, 2011 Members Share Posted September 13, 2011 Just saw this thought I'd chime in. Sounds like they are a lot like the "Motorcycle Institutes". It pretty much that way with a lot of the "career colleges/institutes", the culinary schools are getting sued pretty regularly now for misrepresenting the career potential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members A. Einstein Posted September 14, 2011 Members Share Posted September 14, 2011 It pretty much that way with a lot of the "career colleges/institutes", the culinary schools are getting sued pretty regularly now for misrepresenting the career potential. Oh oooh The interns we had for a while from those recording institute where for no use, but luckily we have a Nespresso machine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mpegsucks Posted September 14, 2011 Members Share Posted September 14, 2011 - recording schools dont require you to be a musician, this alone is HUGE.- you get very limited hands-on time- they perpetrate a fraud by suggesting job placement.- they are mostly not accredited, rarely bonafide colleges will accept any credit from them- they are relatively expensive.- most kids dont realize there is LOT to learn, and a lot of work, practice, skill and knowledge is required. Recording is a SCIENCE, that requires several disciplines of understanding. People have got too used to buying a laptop, installing some cheap or shareware DAW, plugging in a USB mic, making beats on Fruit Loops, and they think they have an actual handle on something. When enough people start to accept this is as the norm, then the whole profession suffers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members richardmac Posted September 14, 2011 Members Share Posted September 14, 2011 - recording schools dont require you to be a musician, this alone is HUGE.- you get very limited hands-on time- they perpetrate a fraud by suggesting job placement.- they are mostly not accredited, rarely bonafide colleges will accept any credit from them- they are relatively expensive.- most kids dont realize there is LOT to learn, and a lot of work, practice, skill and knowledge is required.Recording is a SCIENCE, that requires several disciplines of understanding. People have got too used to buying a laptop, installing some cheap or shareware DAW, plugging in a USB mic, making beats on Fruit Loops, and they think they have an actual handle on something. When enough people start to accept this is as the norm, then the whole profession suffers. I agree with everything you said. You know there's a "but" coming... But... It is also true that the cost of recording equipment has fallen to the bottom of the ocean, relatively speaking. Five grand now can outdo in some ways five hundred grand from thirty years ago. And funny things happen to industries when the technologies become a hundred times cheaper. It would be like buying a new car for three hundred bucks. Yes, I'm glossing this topic. Some parts of audio recording haven't changed much, like microphones. They are not a hundred times cheaper. I think the people who really benefit the most are the folks who know what they're doing and do this for fun. But its a damn difficult time to be a studio owner and I think it's going to get worse. But if I could record in a world class studio I would jump at the chance. And I'd need a pro engineer cause I'm a hobbyist. I still think there's jobs out there for highly skilled engineers, but not as many as thirty years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tgrimley Posted September 15, 2011 Author Members Share Posted September 15, 2011 You have all made very valid points. But I do think that if you find a good studio with guys that are prepared to help you that can only be a good thing.I for one love the idea of rolling up my sleeves and getting "stuck in" I did not end up as a glorified tea boy, that's not what I do.It's all down to the individual studio and your mentor. Get a good one and it's peachy, get a crap one and your f@cked.I still believe the system as a whole works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members A. Einstein Posted September 15, 2011 Members Share Posted September 15, 2011 What job you get depends on two things: a) If you have a University degree in audio engineering, then you can apply for a job at a tv-station, movie stage, a recordist who work for a classical record company, or at a concert hall, or opera house, or theater. This facilities only employ engineers with a solid education and at least a master degree in audio engineering. b) If you have a good feeling for pop and rock, you better find an experienced producer/recordist/mixer, and maybe after six month (or less) you conduct your first sessions and mix the music for the client. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tgrimley Posted September 18, 2011 Author Members Share Posted September 18, 2011 I honestly never realized that all those facilities you mention in a) Required at least a Masters Degree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members A. Einstein Posted September 18, 2011 Members Share Posted September 18, 2011 I honestly never realized that all those facilities you mention in a) Required at least a Masters Degree. Depends on the facility. Years ago there where many recording engineer working in theaters, opera houses, broadcast companies and so on, who did not have a degree in Electronics Engineering, but learned their craft while doing,and from there on moved on with their careers. Today and since we have not only Electronics Engineering deparment at almost all Universities worldwide, but also Multimedia and Recording department, the employment landscape changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueStrat Posted September 18, 2011 Members Share Posted September 18, 2011 I think the people who really benefit the most are the folks who know what they're doing and do this for fun. I think the people who benefit the most are the ones who manufacture and sell DIY recording gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators daddymack Posted September 18, 2011 Moderators Share Posted September 18, 2011 I think the people who benefit the most are the ones who manufacture and sell DIY recording gear. trut' so pure... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members scarecrowbob Posted September 18, 2011 Members Share Posted September 18, 2011 I went for a job interview regarding teaching writing at one of the branches of the Institute of Houston Art last week, which is a good example of these kinds of programs. Their campus was quite pretty. They had good instructors with actual experience working there. Lots of up-to-date equipment. They are SACs accedited, so they need folks like me to teach-- I have an MA in English and can teach writing about anywhere, plus 9 years of experience teaching in the Texas A&M and TTU systems. But the thing that strikes me is that they are basically prepping people for work where there is little prospect of real employment-- and charging a whole lot of money to do it. I am certain that the program can teach you how to fashion design or character development for vidoe games or principles of photography. But so can $3000 worth of tutorials from Gnomon or a $25/mo subscription to lynda. Blue wrote that "I think the people who benefit the most are the ones who manufacture and sell DIY recording gear." I think that you're off base there: the schools make a whole, whole lot of money. Between grants and guaranteed loans, the schools can extract tens of thousands of dollars from anyone willing to sign her name to a piece of paper: regardless of ability or preparation, or ability to really find employment that would make the education a sound investment, or a social/industrial need for workers. I'm split about taking up part time teaching at one of these places-- on one hand, I really feel like I am a good teacher who can at least help folks into writing a decent email, or get them comfortable writing copy for a website, or help them get to where they can write a project pitch. But on the other hand, it feels like a way of exploiting folks who don't have enough initiative to educate themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members flatfinger Posted September 18, 2011 Members Share Posted September 18, 2011 One of the problems with the so called "diploma mills " is simply the fact that soon after a few years of graduates have hit the real world , the following graduates have to overcome the fact that previous graduates have "muddied the waters " . A good example of this is in the I.T. sector . Micro-{censored} offers testing and certificates to show that a potential employee has some level of aptitude . These test are expensive to take so usually one needs to get very , very prepared . One of the first things a recruiter of some trade schools will tell you is that included in your tuition is the ability to take the certification test many , many times at no extra cost (It's all included in the cost of tuition ) . What this does is put "graduates " of the school into circulation who only passed the test using " brute force " methods ( taking the test however many times it takes !) Once a school has enough graduates of this caliber floating around , hiring manager start to steer clear of trade school graduates , and , unfortunately passover many who were better students . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members A. Einstein Posted September 18, 2011 Members Share Posted September 18, 2011 The world need thousands of media editor, possibly hundreds of thousands, and for that grade of work are this fast bleaching schools okay. You don't have to fix an SSL console in that kind of job, no need to know how to record an orchestra, or a band, you simply start the Mac and that's it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members richardmac Posted September 18, 2011 Members Share Posted September 18, 2011 trut' so pure... Remember that Dr. Seuss story where some characters had stars on their bellies and some didn't? And a dude made a fortune putting bellies on stars? Ha ha ha, that's the new music industry! I love it, though... In my job I visit a lot of high schools, and there are TONS of kids out there with acoustic and electric guitars learning how to play, which I really love seeing. Every single time I go to a high school I see at least two kids playing their acoustic guitars on campus. That's the one thing I miss about working at a high school... I used to do audio recording for everything from the school chorus to a kid with an acoustic. I know I'm off topic - I just really like seeing the kids playing guitar. Probably because I WAS that kid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members PermaNoobie Posted September 19, 2011 Members Share Posted September 19, 2011 Remember that Dr. Seuss story where some characters had stars on their bellies and some didn't? sneetches In general, yeah, there can be more $ in support services. Want to make money in painting? sell paint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members scarecrowbob Posted September 19, 2011 Members Share Posted September 19, 2011 "Want to make money in painting? sell paint." Want more? Convince painters that they can make money painting. Want more still? Give them low-cost, no down payment loans to pay you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members A. Einstein Posted September 19, 2011 Members Share Posted September 19, 2011 a lot of halfbacken philosophies in this thread... if you want to make money with death, sell coffins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members A. Einstein Posted September 19, 2011 Members Share Posted September 19, 2011 if you want to make business with gas, eat onions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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