Moderators daddymack Posted September 25, 2011 Moderators Share Posted September 25, 2011 an interestin phenomena I observe here, and in many other forum section, is, I read only stories about people who didn't make it. Somewhat boring if you ask me. well, gee, Einstein...do the math...if 5% of the population of the world are true successes, that leaves the other 95% in here talking bout it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members satannica Posted September 25, 2011 Members Share Posted September 25, 2011 I did a music tech degree. I dont think that I would have even gotten close to the amount of experience I did there if I had just either learned on the job or just bought a book. Plus the exposure to technique, ability to have dedicated teaching time and to try things out is worth the bother for sure. Similarly, the engineers I've met, I have encountered better engineers in those who gave had some sort of formal training; most I've met without have been at best average. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members A. Einstein Posted September 25, 2011 Members Share Posted September 25, 2011 I did a music tech degree. I dont think that I would have even gotten close to the amount of experience I did there if I had just either learned on the job or just bought a book. Plus the exposure to technique, ability to have dedicated teaching time and to try things out is worth the bother for sure. Similarly, the engineers I've met, I have encountered better engineers in those who gave had some sort of formal training; most I've met without have been at best average. Are you talking about live sound? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Brian Hulnick Posted September 29, 2011 Members Share Posted September 29, 2011 What it means is that they have finally acheived rote memorization and very little else .... Were not talking 3 or 4 times , more like ten and more . If it were your business you wouldn't want to hire that would you ?? The reason hiring managers steer clear is that there isn't even a hint of having a handle on the basic building blocks and theory . Thus the pejoritive description " diploma mill ". Microsoft has become so frustrated by this ( and the many "brain dump " sites on the net ) that they have basically removed all multiple choice or true/false questions from certification test ; every question is now a two paragraph reading comprehension and vocabulary depth test/drill in addition to a test about networking concepts If you are talking 10 or more times, that's a different matter. I would describe that individual as a plank. Not deserving of a career in music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Brian Hulnick Posted October 1, 2011 Members Share Posted October 1, 2011 I went for a job interview regarding teaching writing at one of the branches of the Institute of Houston Art last week, which is a good example of these kinds of programs.Their campus was quite pretty. They had good instructors with actual experience working there. Lots of up-to-date equipment. They are SACs accedited, so they need folks like me to teach-- I have an MA in English and can teach writing about anywhere, plus 9 years of experience teaching in the Texas A&M and TTU systems.But the thing that strikes me is that they are basically prepping people for work where there is little prospect of real employment-- and charging a whole lot of money to do it.I am certain that the program can teach you how to fashion design or character development for vidoe games or principles of photography. But so can $3000 worth of tutorials from Gnomon or a $25/mo subscription to lynda.Blue wrote that "I think the people who benefit the most are the ones who manufacture and sell DIY recording gear."I think that you're off base there: the schools make a whole, whole lot of money. Between grants and guaranteed loans, the schools can extract tens of thousands of dollars from anyone willing to sign her name to a piece of paper: regardless of ability or preparation, or ability to really find employment that would make the education a sound investment, or a social/industrial need for workers.I'm split about taking up part time teaching at one of these places-- on one hand, I really feel like I am a good teacher who can at least help folks into writing a decent email, or get them comfortable writing copy for a website, or help them get to where they can write a project pitch. But on the other hand, it feels like a way of exploiting folks who don't have enough initiative to educate themselves. Maybe you should give teaching a shot. I'm sure you would be able to guide and assist. I don't see it as exploiting if they learn something worthwhile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members g.bird84 Posted October 8, 2011 Members Share Posted October 8, 2011 If a student succeeds or fails is ultimately down to him/ her a school can only do so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators daddymack Posted October 8, 2011 Moderators Share Posted October 8, 2011 If a student succeeds or fails is ultimately down to him/ her a school can only do so much.If you mean take their money and hand them a piece of paper? Then yes...that is true, but these schools promise they can get you work...but they generally do not tell you what kind, or where. I remember a friend who went to one of the 'radio broadcasting' schools back in the 70s...his second job (after he spent almost a year at the station he had been placed in by the school) was the station I started at in Nowheresville...so they aren't doing you any favors, believe me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Carlos.S Posted October 9, 2011 Members Share Posted October 9, 2011 Recording schools these days are fine if you are not planning as a career. Of course the job market is limited... but what job market isn't today? Tens of thousands of grads with various degrees and not much available to them. Want to learn recording? Just go to youtube.. everyone there is a producahh :lol: That is so true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members A. Einstein Posted October 9, 2011 Members Share Posted October 9, 2011 Had a friend attend one of those schools. He had a great time. Now he drives a truck. Lucky guy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members michael_B Posted October 10, 2011 Members Share Posted October 10, 2011 Sorry-----no. More like this: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Brian Hulnick Posted October 10, 2011 Members Share Posted October 10, 2011 I think I prefer the Black Truck. What an awesome setup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members A. Einstein Posted October 10, 2011 Members Share Posted October 10, 2011 I like the other truck too, but don't know if I need one like that, I drink hardly that many bottles of Whisky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Brian Hulnick Posted October 12, 2011 Members Share Posted October 12, 2011 I would hope not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members g.bird84 Posted October 13, 2011 Members Share Posted October 13, 2011 Could be worse, he could be driving a septic tank truck. Chicken anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members imbuedblue Posted October 13, 2011 Members Share Posted October 13, 2011 Everyone I know that went to recording school ended up not doing anything remoting relating to studio work. My friend that actually owns a recording studio has degrees in acoustical engineering and architectural acoustics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Brian Hulnick Posted October 19, 2011 Members Share Posted October 19, 2011 Everyone I know that went to recording school ended up not doing anything remotely related to studio work. My friend that actually owns a recording studio has degrees in acoustical engineering and architectural acoustics. That may well be their choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators daddymack Posted October 19, 2011 Moderators Share Posted October 19, 2011 or he just doesn't happen to know the ones who did wind up in the industry...or that there are 5000 graduates from these schools competing for 50 jobs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members michael_B Posted October 19, 2011 Members Share Posted October 19, 2011 or he just doesn't happen to know the ones who did wind up in the industry...or that there are 5000 graduates from these schools competing for 50 jobs... Bingo! Similar to many online schools for art or game design that prey upon the "you can be a successful creative!!!" ad campaigns. BS. A small number of people get the good gigs because of either connections or luck combined with raw talent. Being in the right place at the right time is just as important for recording "careers" as it is for being a successful artist of any kind, you just get less groupies. No school can give you that, but they'll gladly take all of your money... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Brian Hulnick Posted October 21, 2011 Members Share Posted October 21, 2011 I think folks are fully aware of the job (or maybe lack of) situation as far as the recording industry is concerned. Yet they still sign up. At the end of the day it's their decision to sign up to a music school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueStrat Posted October 21, 2011 Members Share Posted October 21, 2011 I think folks are fully aware of the job (or maybe lack of) situation as far as the recording industry is concerned. Yet they still sign up. At the end of the day it's their decision to sign up to a music school. Well yes, just as some people still major in sociology, philosophy or "gender studies." Hard to bitch about graduating with a bunch of debt and not being able to get a job afterward, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators daddymack Posted October 21, 2011 Moderators Share Posted October 21, 2011 I agree that in many cases taking a 'crap program' is a dead end, except that a college degree is more than just the course of study; it says you spent four+ years doing something goal oriented...which means you are likely earnest enough to be worth hiring to do something else goal oriented. Plus universities still expect you to learn a bunch of 'really useless core requirements' like English, math, some science, some art... Tech scools send a very different message...they indicate that you were looking for a direct route to a job that you planned on doing, likely for the rest of your life. You got nothing but training in a specific area intended to make you capable of being hired to start at the bottom of that career path. I don't work in my field of study (although I have on and off over the years because of where I am), and most people I know don't either. Having a degree from a university puts you on a higher plane, as it were, in the eyes of recruiters and managers. I also taught in one of those 'certificate mills' for a while...some of the students really wanted to get on with their lives, but a large proportion were there because they had no clue what else to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members A. Einstein Posted October 21, 2011 Members Share Posted October 21, 2011 I still use the alphabet daily I learned in first grade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators daddymack Posted October 22, 2011 Moderators Share Posted October 22, 2011 hopefully your technique has improved during the ensuing years... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members A. Einstein Posted October 22, 2011 Members Share Posted October 22, 2011 hopefully your technique has improved during the ensuing years... still the same niveau A Ä À Æ B C Ç D E É È FG H O Œ Î Ï J K L M N O Ô P Q R S T U Ù Û Ü V W X Y Ÿ Z Best regards Buby Uuaaoo-aaaa e-e Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members richardmac Posted October 22, 2011 Members Share Posted October 22, 2011 There's no such thing as a "sure bet" in terms of a college degree, but as more and more of the non-professional jobs get sent overseas, it becomes more and more important to have high level skills. Moving forward, I think you need the following:1. Creativity2. Ability to solve real world problems3. Ability to work with other people4. Very high level of technological ability (ie skilled on a computer or any other device) I think Video Game Designer is the new Rock Star. Sooo many kids want to do it, but very few will end up with a career in it. Just like music, though, it is possible to do it your own way. There's money to be made in writing for the iPhone/iPad/iPod Touch/Android market. Write a kick ass app and you can make some money. There's a kid who wrote a game that temporarily knocked Angry Birds out of the number one slot. It can be done. But the difference between writing a hit app for the iPhone and writing a hit song is that it's very difficult to pirate a hit app and it's very easy to pirate a hit song. Apple figured it out. They make the hardware, they run the store, they create the rules for the software. I'm an iPhone developer (my side business is) and Apple has everything locked down. Your app can only play in its own sandbox - it literally can't do anything else. Apple takes 30% of your sales, which is a lot... but it's the only iPhone store in town. You don't hear anyone bitching about "DRM" on an iPhone application. And developers are flocking to the platform like mad. That and Android. So they've created an awesome platform where piracy is not an issue, where all sales come from a single spot, and where the small software developer can sell stuff right next to Microsoft. As for audio recording? Too narrow a field with too few jobs. Audio/Video in general is a better bet - The more varied your talents the better. The future will belong to the kids who are creative, really good with a computer, and can solve problems. Oh, and work well with others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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