Members The 615 Posted September 3, 2011 Members Share Posted September 3, 2011 Tennessee is a right-to-work state.Fender, Taylor, Rickenbacker, Danelectro, Carvin, MusicMan, and ESPare in California;Spector is in New York;Martin is in Pennsylvania;Guild, Ovation, and Hamer are in Connecticut;Alvarez is in Missouri;B.C. Rich is in Kentucky;Heritage is in Michigan;Washburn is in Illinois.All are forced-union states.Peavey is another guitar and electronics company, located in theright-to-work state of Mississippi.Since 2009, Peavey has been the target of multiple lawsuits filed bya competitor, MUSIC Group, which alleges that Peavy products fail tomeet federal safety and emissions standards. This is what its all about. Always follow the money. Gibson is anti union beyond belief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kreatorkind Posted September 3, 2011 Members Share Posted September 3, 2011 Tennessee is a right-to-work state.Fender, Taylor, Rickenbacker, Danelectro, Carvin, MusicMan, and ESPare in California;Spector is in New York;Martin is in Pennsylvania;Guild, Ovation, and Hamer are in Connecticut;Alvarez is in Missouri;B.C. Rich is in Kentucky;Heritage is in Michigan;Washburn is in Illinois.All are forced-union states.Peavey is another guitar and electronics company, located in theright-to-work state of Mississippi.Since 2009, Peavey has been the target of multiple lawsuits filed bya competitor, MUSIC Group, which alleges that Peavy products fail tomeet federal safety and emissions standards. Are you kidding me? Where did you get the information that they are "Forced Union States"? Nobody is forced to hire union. Just look at wal-mart... no union there and they're all over Illinois. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tgrimley Posted September 7, 2011 Members Share Posted September 7, 2011 I hope this time it is all sorted out. Having this hang over your company is no good for Gibson or its employees. They should only storm in guns blazing if they have empirical proof of Gibson's guilt. This action could ruin them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Scafeets Posted September 7, 2011 Members Share Posted September 7, 2011 I hope this time it is all sorted out. Having this hang over your company is no good for Gibson or its employees. They should only storm in guns blazing if they have empirical proof of Gibson's guilt. This action could ruin them. "guns blazing"? C'mon, they were holstered. As I understand it, feds are required to pack heat in these circumstances. Gibson's PR machine has created a lot of hysteria around this case. It will be interesting to see what happens when everyone has to go on the record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members richardmac Posted September 7, 2011 Members Share Posted September 7, 2011 Yes... the smart money says wait and see what happens in court. The WSJ article was good, IMHO... it is true that the laws are there for a good reason. But it is also true that governments (including ours) sometimes go overboard, aka nuts, with stuff like this. The Patriot Act has been used almost 2,000 times, and only 15 of those times were for terrorism, supposedly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Scafeets Posted September 7, 2011 Members Share Posted September 7, 2011 Yes... the smart money says wait and see what happens in court. The WSJ article was good, IMHO... it is true that the laws are there for a good reason. But it is also true that governments (including ours) sometimes go overboard, aka nuts, with stuff like this. The Patriot Act has been used almost 2,000 times, and only 15 of those times were for terrorism, supposedly. Agree completely. The Patriot Act, rendition, Gitmo - there may be a need for some of these measures in extreme cases; but more than 1,000 uncharged detainees have gone through Gitmo; another 1,700 held at Bagram with no charges filed. Thousands of American citizens wiretapped without court orders, and hundreds of citizens tossed in the slammer for suspicion, and don't get me started on the No Fly List.It makes holding some ebony and rosewood in customs look like small potatoes. Still, Gibson has yet to dispute that there was bogus paperwork hiding the fact that the shipments in question defied the Lacy Act. According to the warrant, there were also more than ten recent shipments that were suspected of also having bogus paperwork. That was the reason for the raids - to see if the wood was raw stock or finished fretboards. BTW, the US has hundreds of similar treaties requiring exported goods to be finished to certain standards - thus protecting American jobs - prior to export. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators daddymack Posted September 7, 2011 Author Moderators Share Posted September 7, 2011 An Update from WSJ: Though no charges have been filed, Gibson factories have been raided twice, most recently last week, by federal agents who say ebony exported from India to Gibson was "fraudulently" labeled to conceal a contravention of Indian export law. Henry Juszkiewicz, chief executive officer of the closely held company, said in an interview that a broker probably made a mistake in labeling the goods but that the sale was legal and approved by Indian authorities. Gibson's predicament, which raises concerns for musical instrument makers and other importers of wood, illustrates the pitfalls of complying with U.S. law while dealing with middlemen in faraway countries whose legal systems can be murky. The law ensnaring Gibson is the Lacey Act of 1900, originally passed to regulate trade in bird feathers used for hats and amended in 2008 to cover wood and other plant products. It requires companies to make detailed disclosures about wood imports and bars the purchase of goods exported in violation of a foreign country's laws. Leonard Krause, a consultant in Eugene, Ore., who advises companies on complying with the Lacey Act, is telling clients they should hire lawyers in countries where they obtain products. "How many people know the statutes in India?" Mr. Krause said. "The net effect is that it raises everybody's cost of doing business." {my bold} This is going to ripple through the entire stringed instrument manufacturing field, as well as oboes and clarinets, and ultimately, will result in draconian documentation requirements, and legal fees. I am all for protecting the environment, but there has to be a more sane, logical and cost effective means of accomplishing the same goals. From what we can gather, it is an issue with the Indian Government's documentation that caused this latest uproar, not specifically the Lacey Act, and perhaps the Feds needed to take a lower profile approach? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tgrimley Posted September 15, 2011 Members Share Posted September 15, 2011 "guns blazing"?C'mon, they were holstered. As I understand it, feds are required to pack heat in these circumstances. Gibson's PR machine has created a lot of hysteria around this case. It will be interesting to see what happens when everyone has to go on the record. Figuratively speaking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pinkfloydcramer61 Posted September 15, 2011 Members Share Posted September 15, 2011 This is going to ripple through the entire stringed instrument manufacturing field, as well as oboes and clarinets They can have my oboe when they pry it from my cold, dead fingers . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members whamtone Posted September 15, 2011 Members Share Posted September 15, 2011 Uh oh, the feds better cool it before they piss off the bassoonists!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ido1957 Posted September 15, 2011 Members Share Posted September 15, 2011 They cost so much because the Feds keep stealing their wood... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sgt. Rock Posted September 15, 2011 Members Share Posted September 15, 2011 I love Gibsons and I'm glad I bought them when I did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueStrat Posted September 15, 2011 Members Share Posted September 15, 2011 Are you kidding me? Where did you get the information that they are "Forced Union States"? Nobody is forced to hire union. Just look at wal-mart... no union there and they're all over Illinois. I wasn't aware that Wal Mart was in the manufacturing business, which is what Gibson is. Please enlighten me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lemon Crush Posted September 16, 2011 Members Share Posted September 16, 2011 Regardless of what anyone thinks of Gibson, this whole thing stinks.You would think that. They're a sponsor of yours Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members niceguy Posted September 16, 2011 Members Share Posted September 16, 2011 this is about bureaucracy gone mad...I guess the silver lining is that it offers a career path for TSA employees who tire of their gig. Absolutely, completely, 100% correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TIMKEYS Posted September 16, 2011 Members Share Posted September 16, 2011 Maybe, but then why can I get a USA Strat for 800 bucks when a LP costs 2000? Or a Canadian (not exactly a 3rd world country where stuff is usually MORE expensive) Seagull that plays and sounds great for 500 bucks when a Taylor costs 1800? I'll tell you why: The same reason people will pay 20k for a Harley when a 14k Kawi or Honda (both also made in the US) will be as good or better bike. It's branding and hype, pure and simple. in the case of a strat ,, just look how the thing is made. Much cheaper wood for the body and a bolt on neck. Leo designed the fender to be a fast build. Gibson is a set neck guitar. They also curly maple capped tops with binding. All one has to do is look at the products and what it takes to make them. for sure gibson gets more because of the fact that hey have a brand and a name. Heritage build a guitar thats pretty well a gibson ,,,,they aint cheap either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members HKSblade1 Posted September 23, 2011 Members Share Posted September 23, 2011 I think PRS leaked some details to teh Feds and keep trolling Gibson. The Feds going after Gibson again like this was total BS. What's even more funny is the Feds can just misplace/lose/steal a couple hundred billion dollars and nothing comes of it. Mis-stamp some wood for a guitar neck and its a fed raid. Gibson, Suhr, PRS are all high price guitars. If you can afford one buy it or save up. Strats are cheaper because they are easy to make. IDK look at Suhr superstrats and tell me why they cost more than a Fender or many Gibsons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members A. Einstein Posted September 24, 2011 Members Share Posted September 24, 2011 Why do Gibsons Cost so Much? Why do people pay $400 to $160.000 for one bottle Château Lafite, when there are equal or better wines for $40 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members g.bird84 Posted October 1, 2011 Members Share Posted October 1, 2011 Why do people pay $400 to $160.000 for one bottle Château Lafite, when there are equal or better wines for $40 Basically because they can I'm afraid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators daddymack Posted October 1, 2011 Author Moderators Share Posted October 1, 2011 Why do people pay $400 to $160.000 for one bottle Château Lafite, when there are equal or better wines for $40 people don't...rich people do... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members A. Einstein Posted October 5, 2011 Members Share Posted October 5, 2011 I think I need a Bentley Cabrio after reading the two last responses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dessalines Posted October 6, 2011 Members Share Posted October 6, 2011 "Blessed are the clean of heart for they shall see God" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators daddymack Posted October 6, 2011 Author Moderators Share Posted October 6, 2011 "Blessed are the clean of heart for they shall see God" atheists beware... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Brian Hulnick Posted October 10, 2011 Members Share Posted October 10, 2011 "Blessed are the clean of heart for they shall see God" As Jason Statham would say "Wot a load of Bollocks" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pinkfloydcramer61 Posted October 10, 2011 Members Share Posted October 10, 2011 Sorry Dude but the Bible is not a load of bullocks, IMO. Even if you're an atheist. It's accumulated and timeless wisdom. I'm a borderline agnostic and I still read the Bible. EDITED: IMO insertion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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