Compressing the 2 bus before mastering

[alcohol]

I thought the conventional wisdom was to not compress your mixes before giving them to the mastering engineer. It makes sense because if you do a bad job of comressing the mastering engineer can't really fix it.

 

but

 

Compression does change the relative situation between instruments in your mix. And so I was talking to my mastering engineer and he suggested that it was good to mix to a compressor over the two bus.

 

He suggested a Cranesong compressor (STC-8 around $4000).

 

So for those more experienced than I - Is this the way to go? Some amount of compression for sonic enhancement of the mix, and allow the mastering engineer to get it sounding loud; or taking care of all the compression and letting the mastering engineer just do some amount of EQ?

 

And what alternatives to the Cranesong?

[where02190]

Unless I am also going to master, I never use ANYTHING on the mix buss, and even then I do a mix sans compression, just in case.

I also do a multitude of stem mixes, mix minus, vocals only, drums only, etc., which can make for quick remixing should something in mastering crop up.

[alcohol]

 

Originally posted by where02190 Unless I am also going to master, I never use ANYTHING on the mix buss, and even then I do a mix sans compression, just in case. I also do a multitude of stem mixes, mix minus, vocals only, drums only, etc., which can make for quick remixing should something in mastering crop up.

 

 

I definitely like that idea. Hearing one's mix in another studio with $10,000 speakers sometimes makes one wish one had done some things differently.

[chris carter]

If I want mixbuss compression I do it when I'm mixing. It's to get a certain asthetic sound, it's a creative thing, so that falls in my domain when I'm mixing, not the mastering engineer. That said, I've mixed a lot of records and I'm very used to it, so I can pretty much nail it. If for some reason I'm really not confident about it I will hedge my bets on undercompressing and let the ME add a little more if necessary, but that's rare. I've been to mastering sessions where another mix engineer overcompressed the mix on a tune and let me tell you it's a BITCH for the ME to deal with it so if you are going to compress the mix buss DON'T F*CK UP!

 

FWIW - most of the really good mix engineers I know compress their mix buss if the tune calls for it, but there are also many very good mix engineers who never do.

 

You should be warned though, that compressing the mix buss means an ME can't "remix" from stems (like Where is talking about). I'll still always do an instrumental, a cappella, etc. But it's mainly for other uses.

[where02190]

 

You should be warned though, that compressing the mix buss means an ME can't "remix" from stems (like Where is talking about). I'll still always do an instrumental, a cappella, etc. But it's mainly for other uses.

 

 

Sure you can. However I would NOT use mix buss compression on the stems.

[Aldea]

What about using the waves L2 ultramaximizer or the C4 on the mix bus?

[UstadKhanAli]

I don't use any sort of compression on the mix bus if it's going to be mastered.

 

But in case this helps, some people mix with a compressor on the mix bus so they can hear what it sounds like, and then they take off the compressor before mixing down so that the mastering engineer can work with an uncompressed mix.

 

Some people do the above, but also submit a compressed mix as reference.

 

And some people go ahead and compress their mix anyway.

 

I don't compress because my reasoning is that the mastering engineer that I take it to has better compression equipment and monitoring than I do, and hopefully hopefully has better ears than I do.

[MASSIVE Master]

I don't mix much anymore, but I do tend to mix into a compressor (depending on the tune, of course) maybe just a dB or two for some "glue."

 

Nothing extreme, and nothing for the sake of sheer volume.

[kylen]

Originally posted by MASSIVE Master I don't mix much anymore, but I do tend to mix into a compressor (depending on the tune, of course) maybe just a dB or two for some "glue."

We should all be so lucky to be able to use a vari-mu for glue!

[CN Fletcher]

Okely dokely... tough question. I have had STC-8's on and off since they were first released a little over 10 years ago. I love them, they are great. They are not for the faint of budget nor are they really for the short of experience. It took me a good 6 months to really understand the thing and at that point I'd had well over 20 years of "job experience".

 

Over the years I've tried Vari-MU's [i thought the Manley worked unbelievably well for drum busses, but the Pendulum was a clearer for 2 buss work]... The Smart Research C-2 [great tracking compressor... too "SSL" for my taste on 2 buss... mastering engineers yelled at me]. The Thermionic Culture "Phoenix", another that works on the Variable MU principle... "eh" was about the best comment it would solicit. To quote Peter Griffin; "unfreakinbeliveable" on vocals... but "eh" on the 2 buss.

 

Well... to make a long story longer... at one point a few years ago I was put in the enviable position to have a compressor created for me. My main criteria for this compressor was for it to work as the "glue" for 2 buss applications without being too intrusive [or getting me yelled at by mastering engineers], but to also be an excellent tracking tool, especially for bass and vocals.

 

In my world rack space is at a premium. When I'm in my studio there are 3x 16 RU racks... but when I travel there are only 2x 16 RU racks that come along [it's a long story]. One of those racks is the Mercenary Editions "demo rack" which has to go out to trade shows a few times a year, and has space taken up in it with {censored} like a CD player, a mini-patchbay, power distribution, etc.

 

Before the M-E demo rack had been built, I was still confined to 2x 16 RU cases... so because I could never be sure if I'd have my STC-8 on any given day [there were a bunch of times when my STC-8 had to be loaned to a client while their new STC-8 was being build... the Crane Song factory has never really been able to supply as much product as it sold!! ... which in many ways is a good thing, but in my case it meant I could never be 100% sure I'd have an STC-8].

 

We created the Drawmer 1969. It's a FET based gain reduction cell with a tube output stage. In terms of attack and release parameters, we worked as long and hard on getting those to be as musical as possible [starting with the timing coefficients from a Fairchild 670 and tweezing by ear from there] so as to get it exactly where I wanted it to be... no compromises were to happen with the compressor as this was the absolute focus of the unit from my perspective [we made many compromises on the pre-amps... which are useable, but sound a bit sterile and "Grace Design" like for my personal sense of aesthetic].

 

A couple of years ago we revisted that compressor with Drawmer... made a few tweezes and created the product as a "stand alone" unit called the 1968. For around $2k USD you get a 2 buss compressor that can hang with the $3-5k dogs without compromise... often kicking their asses without remorse.

 

Understand, I do NOT get a royalty on the sales of these units, I didn't even get a price break on buying one [other than regular "dealer cost" kind of thing]. What I got out of the deal was a unit that was built EXACTLY to my tastes and standards... that fit my criteria in terms of tone, texture and useability.

 

So... if you got this far without lapsing into a coma from boredom... you should give your favorite local Drawmer dealer a call and check one out. Sweetwater moves more of these things than anyone in the country... there is probably a reason for that.

 

I hope this is of some assistance

[Paully]

I'll occasionally use a hard limiter, but only on material with wide dynamics, and only if spikes are encountered that cause overs when mixing to digital. Otherwise, no compression.

 

 

 

Originally posted by Fletcher@mercenary.com ...A couple of years ago we revisted that compressor with Drawmer... made a few tweezes and created the product as a "stand alone" unit called the 1968 . For around $2k USD you get a 2 buss compressor that can hang with the $3-5k dogs without compromise... often kicking their asses without remorse...

 

 

 

I use the Drawmer 1960 fairly regularly. Never tried it across the main buss. How would it work as a 2 buss comp as compared to the 1968? Big diffs?

 

Paul

[C JoGo]

Slight multi-compression with the DEQ2496..and then out to a Masterlink. Keep one copy direct and one with a applied comp/limiter.

[MASSIVE Master]

If the mix is screwy enough to warrant a maul-the-band compressor on it during the mix stage, why don't you just fix it in the mix?

[Alanfc]

If I know who is going to do the mastering,

would it be kosher for me to ask the guy what he prefers before I really get into the mixing?

thanks

[MASSIVE Master]

Abso-freakin'-lutely.

 

I (I would assume most M.E.'s also) get a lot of really silly, goofy phone calls with really insane questions.

 

That wouldn't be one of them. Anything about preparation is going to make him (her) a happy camper after taking the call.

 

Knowing that a project is coming in with fewer "surprises" due to some good advance communication is always a good thing. Like headroom - Always a good thing.

[Alanfc]

Originally posted by MASSIVE Master Abso-freakin'-lutely. I (I would assume most M.E.'s also) get a lot of really silly, goofy phone calls with really insane questions. That wouldn't be one of them. Anything about preparation is going to make him (her) a happy camper after taking the call. Knowing that a project is coming in with fewer "surprises" due to some good advance communication is always a good thing. Like headroom - Always a good thing.

 

OK cool thanks. I'm thrilled I've been able to talk the band into pro mastering on this one. Everyone told me my work was good but they don't know.

I know it needed pro ears-gear-listening space.

[CN Fletcher]

 

Originally posted by Paully I use the Drawmer 1960 fairly regularly. Never tried it across the main buss. How would it work as a 2 buss comp as compared to the 1968? Big diffs?

 

 

Yes... there are HUGE differences between the 1960 and the 1968... not some much so between the 1969 and the 1968, but caverous between the 1960 and the 1968.

 

The 1960 was the motivation behind the creation of the 1969 by virtue of the fact that it was without a doubt one of the {censored}tiest sounding soft pieces of {censored} I had ever had to suffer through on a session.

 

A 1960 is like trying pull your audio through a sponge... it's a horrible, horrible, horrible little box that is OK for an overdub here and there but absolutely unacceptable for 2 buss work [in my obviously not in the least bit humble opinion].

[Paully]

Originally posted by Fletcher@mercenary.com A 1960 is like trying pull your audio through a sponge... it's a horrible, horrible, horrible little box...

 

 

 

Thanks, Fletch, I'll sell mine immediately!!

 

Paul

[jackcheez]

I've got the UAD-1 powered plug-ins and recently discovered that the "LA2A" plug-in sounds really good on some mixes. So I use it.

[Lee Knight]

I like the Bomb Factory Fairchild just barely dipping to -1. Very solid sounding. I mix without it, then put it on when everything's right.

 

Using 1 dB doesn't change the balance enough for me to actually mix into it, and I don't get fooled into thinking my mix is rocking by the compression... so I wait and slap it on (that's a delicate slap) at the end.

[Zooey]

 

Originally posted by Lee Knight I like the Bomb Factory Fairchild just barely dipping to -1. Very solid sounding. I mix without it, then put it on when everything's right.

 

 

I use the BF Fairchild like this, too. It definitely does something positive with the low end of the mix. It's annoying to A/B, because it definitely adds volume (which always sounds better). I fix that by reducing the input level just a tiny bit--at which point I have to readjust the threshold, too.

 

I've also had some luck with the McDSP Analog Channel 2 on certain mixes (mostly sparse, open mixes). I've tried the Phoenix, but again--there's that annoying volume boost that makes it hard to objectively judge the effect.