A reminder about studio security...

[Phil O'Keefe]

Click this.

[A_Str8]

Gotta love the all the rap stereotypes out there. Gotta love the media contributions. Would they have said "Rock Music Studio" or "Techno Music Studio" if it happened somewhere else?

[where02190]

I lost a dear friend to a studio robbery in NYC in the 90's.

 

I wouldn't go near anything hip hop or rap for several reasons, and this is certainly one of them.

 

we have a hard and fast rule, we never, ever meet with clients the first time onsite. Our website is very extensive, and you can get a very good feel for the place from that. We will meet for coffee, dinner a drink, etc., in a public place, and explain upfront it's for security. If then they want to tour, we get photo ide copies and verifiable phone numbers which are recorded in our (offsite) security log.

 

We have several alarms, keep all unused mics under lock and key, have a big and very intimdating rottweiler onsite, and many more security features I won't disclose to anyone.

 

We do NOT list our address publicly. IMHO that's like putting a big sign on the front door that says "hey crooks, lots of expensive easy to pawn stuff here, come steal it".

[TBush]

I live about an hour from Ft Wayne, IN, home of other bigger studios that are frankly more impressive than mine as far as "extras". If someone wants to come and "check out the studio" I just ask what they've heard from here and if they like it or not. I have some pics up on the website as well. Unless it's a big full-length project it's just not worth exposing all the gear and stuff. I'm with you, where02190- too many morons out there.

[A_Str8]

Its disapointing to see so many people willing to buy whatever they're fed. "I lost a dear friend to a studio robbery in NYC in the 90's" so you don't go near hip hop or rap? where02190 - turn off MTV. I'm sorry about your friend, but in reality, that's one of the risks you face when you have a studio and expose yourself to strangers regularly. Unfortunate incidents like that are not limited to the rap/hip-hop community, just the media's coverage of them. If you really believe you can protect yourself from harm by staying away from rap/hip-hop, I don't know whether I should envy your bliss or pity your ignorance.

[scapier]

At some point the frequency of stories about bad experiences with rap artist and rap projects convinces you that there is something fatally flawed with the scene, the genre and the people who do it. I've heard a handful of people who bring art out of that format, and an even smaller handful who aren't mixed up in some sort of illegal activity. Defend it all you want, but there aren't a lot of fatal shootings of cellists.

 

Spencer

[A_Str8]

 

Originally posted by scapier At some point the frequency of stories about bad experiences with rap artist and rap projects convinces you that there is something fatally flawed with the scene,

 

 

Precisely.

 

And you never think to look deeper. It doesn't occur to you that the media has a long history of not simply reporting the news but also trying to color and bias it. You never consider that maybe "a handful of people" isn't enough to make such a general determination. Why would the media lie? Its not like they're making any money off of portraying rap in a certain way, right.

 

keep up the free thinking

[Billster]

I agree with A-str8. You have to assess people individually. To swear off an entire genre is not a healthy attitude.

[IsildursBane]

 

Originally posted by A_Str8 Precisely. And you never think to look deeper. It doesn't occur to you that the media has a long history of not simply reporting the news but also trying to color and bias it.

 

 

You assume that people hear these "stories" only through the media and not from other studio owners.

 

-Dan.

[A_Str8]

I work with a pretty wide variety of local rappers and I know a bunch of other studio owners that do. I also know a bunch of people in various other positions in the entertainment/music industry who deal with hip hop.

 

Based on my experiences and those of people I know, I think its pretty safe to bet the majority of these opinions are being formed by media. And, some of the people who do have word-of-mouth stories jump to the conclusion that rap music is behind whatever happened that was bad.

 

For example, in the thread Phil linked to, one guy said "I have several friends with commercial project/home studios who will not take on 'rap' clients. There have been several shootings and robberies in the Detroit metro studio scene" From what I know of the Detroit metro area, its dangerous. I would take stories about studio robberies there as a warning not to record at all in that area.

[where02190]

 

Originally posted by A_Str8 Its disapointing to see so many people willing to buy whatever they're fed. "I lost a dear friend to a studio robbery in NYC in the 90's" so you don't go near hip hop or rap? where02190 - turn off MTV. I'm sorry about your friend, but in reality, that's one of the risks you face when you have a studio and expose yourself to strangers regularly. Unfortunate incidents like that are not limited to the rap/hip-hop community, just the media's coverage of them. If you really believe you can protect yourself from harm by staying away from rap/hip-hop, I don't know whether I should envy your bliss or pity your ignorance.

 

 

My friends death and my distain for rap and hip hop are completely unrelated. I don't like that {censored}, and don't like the element it attracts.

 

My freind, who got two in the head for trying to be a nice guy, was killed by two white kids.

 

How about instead of me turning off MTW, (which I would never watch anyway), [EDITED BY MODERATOR - no need for personal attacks please]. I lost a good friend to a couple of pieces of {censored}, and not a day goes by I don't think of him. He was a great human being and a hell of an engineer. I miss him very very much, and his murder was a blow to all.

[joestanman]

Chalk me up to a person that stereotypes a scene that glorifies drug dealing, robbery, rape and other violent crime.

[scapier]

We could all be a little more curteous on this thread I would suggest.

 

I did make my assessment of rap music from non media sources, ancecdotes from other studio type folks in the Vancouver area.

 

Again, I don't know of any classical musicians (or bluegrass, folk etc) who find they need to plaster the vocal booth with hundreds of magazine photos of female genitalia, that feel the need to cover a studio in pot smoke, and pay in five dollar bills. There is an obsession among young rappers (and I've had several teens proudly hand me their first cds) with objectifying women, or worse degrading them, an obsession with materialism and gaudy display thereof. Art, for me on crucial levels must be redeeming. What is redeeming about the title "Get Rich or Die Trying?" What is exemplary about the touted lifestyles of Eminem or any major rap artist noted today? Apart from tracks by Arrested Development (showing my lack of attention to the genre perhaps, if you are looking for a way to critique my position) I have heard very little transcendent lyrical content from the rap genre.

 

 

Regards,

 

Spencer

[Phil O'Keefe]

Originally posted by joestanman Chalk me up to a person that stereotypes a scene that glorifies drug dealing, robbery, rape and other violent crime.

 

You mean rock?

 

Let's all take a breath for a moment and calm down a bit please.

 

Several musical styles have glorified "outlaws" and villains, and rap / hip hop certainly isn't the only one to do that. But there does seem to be a high percentage of such songs in rap, and in SOME areas of the rap music world, that is certainly an active element, and IMO, cause for concern for a studio owner. And unfortunately, the honest and sincere are vilified by the actions of those who promote and participate in that IMO.

 

Rock, rap, metal, country - genre and race doesn't matter to me - if it's racist, if it's demeaning to women, if it promotes violence, then I don't want to work on it. Bad joss, and if I don't feel right about something like that, I go with my gut and pass on the gig. And I've passed on a lot of gigs.

 

I've worked on two rap-esque projects in my career, although I've done several other songs that had a rap in them. One was a hard rock band with a pair of rappers - the bass player was a long time family friend, and they ended up getting nominated for an LA Music Award. The second was for a couple of friends from church, and they wanted me specifically because I don't normally work on rap.

 

And they're right - I normally DON'T work on rap stuff. Not only because I don't like the odds and don't want to sort out the wheat from the chaff - those I feel I can trust from those that make me nervous - but also because it's not really my "bag". I'm not saying there are not examples of rap that I have found something in that I could appreciate and dig... there is. But OTOH, my experience, my background and preferences lie elsewhere.

 

I've known of several studios that were robbed, and I had the unfortunate experience of working for a studio that was robbed at gunpoint - although fortunately, I wasn't working the morning it happened. But yes, they were guys coming in under the pretense of mixing a - you guessed it - rap album.

 

The areas where the studio owner blew it were legion. He took a call, set up a walk through, and gave them a complete guided recon of the whole place. Didn't bother to check the contact number they gave. After the tour, when they left a $100 cash deposit to reserve the studio time, he didn't get any ID. Strike two. No driver's license? No address? No check? No mutual contact / referral?

 

The morning of the "mix session" they showed up, asked the engineer to play a few tracks he had previously worked on, and while he was doing so, out came the guns. They handcuffed the engineer and made him lay face down on the floor in one of the iso booths while they started cleaning the place out. When the studio owner showed up in mid-robbery, he walked through the office (which had been torn apart - strike three - if you see that - LEAVE and call the police!), walked through the tracking room (past the iso and the engineer on the floor - the owner later said he thought it was one of the clients taking a nap... why wouldn't they use the couch? - gotta pay ATTENTION!), through the soundlock and walked into the control room and asked "what's going on"? Of course, out came the pistols and he joined the engineer on the floor in the iso booth.

 

They cleared out most of the stuff in the place, using a rented U-Haul. I've never understood why the police couldn't track that down. These guys apparently were not too concerned about people seeing their faces either - they asked neighbors if they wouldn't mind moving their cars so they could move the truck closer to the loading dock. That's another mistake - get your neighbors in on the security and have them help keep an eye on the place. If they start seeing large amounts of stuff besides instruments coming OUT of your place, have them call the police.

 

Fortunately, they left without harming anyone. And Where, I'm really sorry about your friend, but it's true - some scumbags would just as soon shoot someone as leave a witness behind... and personally, I'm not likely to trust the word of a armed robber that they were not planning on doing something like that as long as I "cooperate", but that's a decision each person has to make on their own.

 

I've known other places that were robbed by people who were associated with - or robbery teams who described themselves as musicians from - other genres. But like it or not, the robberies that I personally know about - NOT from just the press, but from other studio owners and engineers - have been overwhelmingly rap-related, or "said" they were rap artists.

 

And again, there are some cool people out there doing rap music - but unfortunately, the image of many of the artists, and actions of a few people involved in that genre make many studio owners want to stay away from it - and that is also unfortunate, but IMO, understandable.

 

Again Where, I'm sorry about the loss of your friend.

[aliengroover]

Recording rappers that want to be the next 50 Cent is a no-no. Recording rappers that do Hip Hop and are more in tune with the "underground" than the radio is just fine. Those guys are literally no different than working with a country singer. Very relaxed and down to earth.

 

Sadly, there are too many Joe Knuckleheads polluting studios. Phil responding to Joestanman's statment with "You mean rock?" is dead on. I've recorded primarily a ton of Rock, Rap, and Hip Hop over the years. I've never once dealt with a smokey room with rappers, though I have with rockers. Nor have I ever dealt with obnoxious and piss drunk rappers, but I have with plenty of rockers. But you know what? I'd never stop working with either.

 

It's the overall thing with some rappers that gets me, particularly the entourage, and why I usually don't deal with cold cases. You gotta be referred and I have to feel you out (something I'm pretty good at). My method hasn't failed me, and I forever remain extra cautious. And really, it's not the artist I'm concerned about, it's the outsiders, the crew and/or whoever gets wind of what I have.

 

The deal breaker for me is where they're at in their "careers". You find a different breed of rapper and rocker, and artist in general, once they've actually released a project or two, or performed frequently. The problems stem from those trying to emulate what they see on TV and read in the news, and in general don't have a clue. Stupid, but true. The garbage gets weeded out once it gets in the thick of things. As long as they're past that point and meety my "requirements", I'll deal with anyone in any genre, as I always have.

 

Sorry about your friend, Where.

Peace

[where02190]

Thanks all for the kind thoughts. My apologies for getting a bit steamed. It's nice to know after all these years though that my friend can still be with us, even by those who didn't know him. May he rest in peace.

[Phil O'Keefe]

Amen.

[scapier]

Ditto that Amen.

 

Spencer

[A_Str8]

 

Originally posted by aliengroover Recording rappers that want to be the next 50 Cent is a no-no. Recording rappers that do Hip Hop and are more in tune with the "underground" than the radio is just fine. Those guys are literally no different than working with a country singer. Very relaxed and down to earth. Sadly, there are too many Joe Knuckleheads polluting studios. Phil responding to Joestanman's statment with "You mean rock?" is dead on. I've recorded primarily a ton of Rock, Rap, and Hip Hop over the years. I've never once dealt with a smokey room with rappers, though I have with rockers. Nor have I ever dealt with obnoxious and piss drunk rappers, but I have with plenty of rockers. But you know what? I'd never stop working with either. It's the overall thing with some rappers that gets me, particularly the entourage, and why I usually don't deal with cold cases. You gotta be referred and I have to feel you out (something I'm pretty good at). My method hasn't failed me, and I forever remain extra cautious. And really, it's not the artist I'm concerned about, it's the outsiders, the crew and/or whoever gets wind of what I have. The deal breaker for me is where they're at in their "careers". You find a different breed of rapper and rocker, and artist in general, once they've actually released a project or two, or performed frequently. The problems stem from those trying to emulate what they see on TV and read in the news, and in general don't have a clue. Stupid, but true. The garbage gets weeded out once it gets in the thick of things. As long as they're past that point and meety my "requirements", I'll deal with anyone in any genre, as I always have. Sorry about your friend, Where. Peace

 

 

Bingo. Which is why i say turn off mtv. 50 cent and other rappers use lyrics and present images that promote violence, disrespect to women, etc, but they do not represent all rap. There are many different styles and "scenes" in rap and mainstream media only chooses to present 1. If an artist tries to push something more positive he is either told to change it or he is just not given the same exposure as the negative (and IMO way less talented) rappers. This is not reflective of the scene outside of the mainstream.

 

Once you stop looking at the big money artists, the rap scene is a very different, very diverse scene.

 

And everyone talking about rap and drugs needs to take a better look at the music industry. In my experience a lot of people in the rap scene smoke weed...but a lot of people in other music scenes (i.e. rock, electronic) smoke weed AND do much harder drugs.

[the stranger]

 

Originally posted by scapier I have heard very little transcendent lyrical content from the rap genre. Regards, Spencer

 

 

It's there, it's just lurking underground.

 

And I will add that I'm pretty picky about who I let in the studio. And genre or race don't have nada to do with it. It's just common sense. I had shaddy guy lived next door a while back...he wasn't a rapper, just a shaddy little punk. Wandered himself right in with an associate of mine. Enter alarm system. This guy was just one of those types you don't trust.

[where02190]

Use of drugs (including alcohol) here violates the mandatory contract all clients must sign before booking confirmation, and the session will be immediately terminated. I've got better things to do with my time than work with drugged out wannabees, and no I don't buy the it enhances my creativity bit.

[soundchaser59]

These crimes dont happen randomly. No matter how little respect I may have for rap as an art form, I know it is not fair to say that all rappers are just psychotic killers. One thing I learned from working at the state pen for 5 years is that almost every crime has a motive. With a few "son of sam" exceptions, there really aren't that many purely psychotic killers out there killing anonymous random people just for blood lust. The vast majority of the time the victim knows who is killing him, or at least who sent them to kill him, and he knows why. And the vast majority of the time, the media does not tell the whole story.

 

But I dont live in LA or New York, so what do I know......

 

And I am sorry to hear what happened to your friend, Where!

[guitwizz]

Sorry too, Where.........

[Brittanylips]

 

Originally posted by A_Str8 Gotta love the all the rap stereotypes out there. Gotta love the media contributions. Would they have said "Rock Music Studio" or "Techno Music Studio" if it happened somewhere else?

 

I think blaming the media for stories on rap violence is like blaming the media for reporting that the sky is blue.

 

There is no anti-rap cabal in the media, but there is a lot of violence in rap music - both in the lyrics of the songs and in the lives of some high profile artists.

 

Cam'ron Giles was recently shot in what was initially reported as a carjacking. Leaving the hospital, he said: "I got shot three times and my album comes out Nov. 22... It was a sloppy job on their part. They didn't get anything. I still got my car and my jewelry."

 

Apparently it was part of a feud. There were a number of witnesses to who did it, but no one is naming names.

 

I love rap and have worked with artists at Def Jam.

 

But the violence is scarry, and it's not the media that's firing the guns.

 

-Peace, Love, and Brittanylips

[A_Str8]

 

Originally posted by Brittanylips I think blaming the media for stories on rap violence is like blaming the media for reporting that the sky is blue. There is no anti-rap cabal in the media, but there is a lot of violence in rap music - both in the lyrics of the songs and in the lives of some high profile artists.

 

 

Look at your first paragraph and then at the second. Why do you think these artists are high profile? Its certainly not for talent. To stay with your metaphor, they are focusing the camera on a patch of blue on a cloudy day and reporting clear skies. Being positive is a negative thing for a rap career. The few artists who actually brush the surface but don't spew negativity never stay up top for long.

 

I know so many MCs with diverse backgrounds - 2 doctors, a psychologist, 1 artist who just graduated from a fine arts school, a few still in art school and the list goes on. I know MCs that are black, white, latino, indian, palestinian. Once again, the list goes on. Hip Hop is soooo diverse and so much of it has absolutely nothing to do with violence, but you won't ever see that because that's not what young middle class Americans want to buy and that's not what corporate America wants to sell. They only want rappers fitting in a few limited categories.

 

they want the gangster who "keeps it real" ie 50 cents

they want the overindulgent womanizer ie Jay Z

they want the young cocky delinquent ie Lil Wayne

they want the white trash rapper with an attitude ie Eminem

 

There is not room for much else. You won't turn on the tv or radio and hear a palestinian surgeon rapping about his feelings on what's going on in the middle east, you won't hear an American white painter rapping about her experiences in interracial dating, you won't hear a young black psychologist rapping about having an argument with the man she's in love with.

 

When I said earlier turn off mtv, I meant mainstream media in general. If that's where you're getting your idea of what rap music is about, its not accurate. No, they generally don't make things up, but that's not the only way to bias a story. If you take a wildly diverse scene and only show a very small segment of it, that will be what people believe the whole scene is like. If a rapper dies a peaceful death, its usually buried in the news, but believe it or not, it does happen.