A reminder about studio security...

[dougb415]

Originally posted by A_Str8 Gotta love the all the rap stereotypes out there. Gotta love the media contributions. Would they have said "Rock Music Studio" or "Techno Music Studio" if it happened somewhere else?

 

 

Uh huh. When my wife told me about this, I told her "I'll bet you it was rap artists." All we knew then was 4 guys got shot at a recording studio.

 

We won't have anything to do with rap. Thanks, but no thanks.

[dougb415]

Originally posted by A_Str8 Its disapointing to see so many people willing to buy whatever they're fed. "I lost a dear friend to a studio robbery in NYC in the 90's" so you don't go near hip hop or rap? where02190 - turn off MTV. I'm sorry about your friend, but in reality, that's one of the risks you face when you have a studio and expose yourself to strangers regularly.

Lately I find myself cowering when one of those thug polka bands starts up with an attitude.

[A_Str8]

I'm glad to hear you've found a life partner to share your ignorance with. People like you helped get this country where it is today.

Its funny that everyone wants to contrast rap with polka. What happened to the other genre's. No one wants to mention how comforting and peaceful it is to be in the rock scene? Heavy metal? Techno? If you want to find drugs, violence, and excess in music, those are great places to start.

The amount of effort some people put into staying ignorant is frightening. Take a moment to think about why one needs to put rap next to polka to make it seem like an abnormally violent scene.

[guitwizz]

The amount of ignorance that some put into the act of being a "battered little petunia" that is constantly accused, but never guilty is scarier....IMO.

 

And the Dimebag story aint no gel here either, his murderer wasnt part of a rival gang. ( I have heard that used before)

 

Rap isnt a "responsibility" in total for its reputation, but the funny thing is, you cant really blame another genre for pinning them with it.... Can you?

 

And yes, in my town, I have extended experience dealing with rappers..... Selling, renting, and explaining gear.

 

 

Hey, I know some muslims that arent that interested in bombing people, but they are much more responsible than I am, for what makes the media headlines about "them"....

 

Why doesnt someone just be honest and say, "Yeah, alot of the rap industry has bad straits all around, values, lifestyles, murders and drug abuse, but not all of its like that."

 

Just my opinion, sorry if you dont like it.

[dougb415]

Originally posted by A_Str8 Its funny that everyone wants to contrast rap with polka.

 

 

"Everyone"? Can you show me where anyone besides me mentioned polka?

[dougb415]

Originally posted by A_Str8 The amount of effort some people put into staying ignorant is frightening. Take a moment to think about why one needs to put rap next to polka to make it seem like an abnormally violent scene.

 

 

Okay... replace the word "polka" with practically ANY other genre.

 

Like I said before, when that news item came on about "4 people were shot at a recording studio" I turned to my ignorant life partner and said (somewhat ignorantly) "I'll bet they were involved with rap."

 

... and they were. Make of that what you will.

[Billster]

Man, is this thread in the toilet.

You have to assess people individually.

It's time consuming.

It isn't perfect (what is)

But it's the only way.

[guitwizz]

 

Originally posted by Billster Man, is this thread in the toilet. You have to assess people individually. It's time consuming. It isn't perfect (what is) But it's the only way.

 

 

This thread is in the toilet, and all the "walters" useless crap posts are OK???!!!

 

This actually makes sense...... exchanging what may be a few heated, and hopefully controlled human opinions on a pretty important subject, is a toilet thread...hmmm.....ok.......

 

And then, {censored}ing captain Kangaroo is allowed to run amuck, blantantly disrupting on purpose, what is supposed to be a community of hobbyists bettering their abilities, and helping others to do the same, and its tolerated.....in almost a "loving" way.....

 

 

Like I said, it actually does make sense, nothing new or shocking here.

[guitwizz]

 

Originally posted by A_Str8 I'm glad to hear you've found a life partner to share your ignorance with. People like you helped get this country where it is today.

 

 

A_Str8,

 

The ridiculous thing here is, he doesnt want to have anything to do with Rap recordings, and you call him AND his wife "ignorant".....this is solely because he doesnt agree with "you".....explain it otherwise, I dont feel that IMO, it can be backpeddled with any validity.

 

I have never said out loud, or in any post that "all rap folk are thugs"!!!

 

But you just said that because he thinks a certain way about something that you are "sensitive to", he is labeled ignorant.

 

 

 

Mirror, pal...mirror.

[Billster]

Originally posted by guitwizz This thread is in the toilet, and all the "walters" useless crap posts are OK???!!!

 

 

It's in the toilet when the same things get repeated (as in "circling the bowl").

 

Let's count how many times rap is contrasted with any other genre - OK mainstream hip-hop projects a thug image - GOT IT, enough already.

 

Let's count how many times underground is contrasted with mainstream - OK, underground, local, real-life hip-hop culture is not about the thuggery so prevalent in the mainstream image - GOT IT, enough already.

 

Let's count how many "you're ignorant/you're judgmental" exchanges are here. OK - they're talking past each other - LET'S MOVE ALONG, shall we?

[A_Str8]

Originally posted by guitwizz The ridiculous thing here is, he doesnt want to have anything to do with Rap recordings, and you call him AND his wife "ignorant".....this is solely because he doesnt agree with "you".....explain it otherwise, I dont feel that IMO, it can be backpeddled with any validity.

 

 

I called him ignorant because he is judging a large group of people with extreme prejudice. That is called stereotyping. Yes, you could say people who practice racism, sexism and other forms of discrimination don't agree with me, but is it ridiculous for me to call them ignorant. Is it less ignorant because he's judging based on the genre of music they participate in?

 

And doug, polka was mentioned in the thread Phil linked to. In this one blugrass, classical and country were mentioned. My point was that it does not make sense to compare hip hop to these generally low energy genre's whose musicians and fans are usually older and more conservative. Why not compare it to other high energy angst filled genres with younger artists and fans? When you replace the word "polka" with words like techno, rock, punk, etc, as I said earlier, those differences start to go away. You start seeing at least (but sometimes more) as much drugs and violence as there is in hip hop.

 

Yes Billster, this thread is in the toilet and has been from early on. I knew I shouldn't have engaged this conversation - you're not going to change someone's prejudices on an internet message board - but as this particular line of ignorance is close to home, I couldn't resist.

 

Flush

[Brittanylips]

Originally posted by A_Str8 Look at your first paragraph and then at the second. Why do you think these artists are high profile? Its certainly not for talent. To stay with your metaphor, they are focusing the camera on a patch of blue on a cloudy day and reporting clear skies. Being positive is a negative thing for a rap career. The few artists who actually brush the surface but don't spew negativity never stay up top for long.

 

Sadly, even some of the artists who don't spew negativity have been felled by violence - Run DMC.

 

I agree with your variation of the metaphor - a patch of blue sky - but even so, it's understandable why the media reports it. It's the same deal wiith Iraq - the media has been criticized for focusing on that small patch of sky that has to do with soldiers being killed vs. the wide swath of sky that has to do with soldiers staying alive. But 15 soldiers dead is a story, and 200,000 soldiers remaining alive is not. And even though the deaths don't represent the overall reality (most soldiers stay alive), the story is real and depicts real danger.

 

I'm more bothered by the racism of the media over-reporting the disapearance of white girls as something we should be concerned about more than anything else (e.g. Natalie Holloway) than the stories about violence in rap.

 

 

Originally posted by A_Str8 I know so many MCs with diverse backgrounds - 2 doctors, a psychologist, 1 artist who just graduated from a fine arts school, a few still in art school and the list goes on. I know MCs that are black, white, latino, indian, palestinian. Once again, the list goes on. Hip Hop is soooo diverse and so much of it has absolutely nothing to do with violence, but you won't ever see that because that's not what young middle class Americans want to buy and that's not what corporate America wants to sell. They only want rappers fitting in a few limited categories. they want the gangster who "keeps it real" ie 50 cents they want the overindulgent womanizer ie Jay Z they want the young cocky delinquent ie Lil Wayne they want the white trash rapper with an attitude ie Eminem There is not room for much else. You won't turn on the tv or radio and hear a palestinian surgeon rapping about his feelings on what's going on in the middle east, you won't hear an American white painter rapping about her experiences in interracial dating, you won't hear a young black psychologist rapping about having an argument with the man she's in love with.

 

True that.

 

However, the rap that is most widely distributed IS what rap is for most people, and becomes the story.

 

My own feeling is that if a rapper is really good, they don't have to be a thug. Look at Will Smith, or even Public Enemy - brilliant music / lyrics / delivery, without the violence. But because violence sells, it's an easy pay day, and the cycle continues.

 

-PL&B

[scapier]

I think there must be a difference between legitimate inductive logic (particular is so, therefore all in group is so, the basis of all science btw) and hasty generalization. Can we not all agree there is a problem in this one genre, the entire group of rappers is not tainted with it? Is it reasonable to refuse to work with rap artists because it's reasonable to play the odds for the sake of one's long term career and well being?

Spencer

[dougb415]

Originally posted by A_Str8 I called him ignorant because he is judging a large group of people with extreme prejudice. That is called stereotyping.

 

 

Can you point me to the post I made where I judged a large group of people?

[dougb415]

Originally posted by A_Str8 And doug, polka was mentioned in the thread Phil linked to. In this one blugrass, classical and country were mentioned. My point was that it does not make sense to compare hip hop to these generally low energy genre's whose musicians and fans are usually older and more conservative. Why not compare it to other high energy angst filled genres with younger artists and fans?

 

 

So are you saying that an older a person is, the less likely they are to be prone to violence? Where is all the speed-death-metal violence? The emo violence? The ambient violence? The boy bands violence?

 

I'm sorry, I still don't see the level of violence in any other genre of music as that which is associated with rap. Like I said, replace "rap" with practically any other genre, and it still doesn't compare.

 

I'm not saying that ALL rap artists are violent, nor am I saying that all rap music is violent, biased against women (bro's before ho's) or filled with the 'tood. Nor am I saying that no either genre of music has those taints against it; howeve, because of all the BS that *does* get associated with rap, it is not worthwhile for my wife or I to want to be involved.

 

Doesn't that leave more work (and $$$) for you?

[A_Str8]

Originally posted by dougb415 I'm sorry, I still don't see the level of violence in any other genre of music as that which is associated with rap. Like I said, replace "rap" with practically any other genre, and it still doesn't compare.

 

 

Hang around in the scene of any of the other genre's I mentioned.

[dougb415]

Originally posted by A_Str8 Hang around in the scene of any of the other genre's I mentioned.

 

 

You mentioned rock, heavy metal, techno & punk. Are you saying these genres are as violent as rap?

 

Again, I'm *not* saying there is NO violence in these (or any other) genres. What I am saying is the level of violence associated with rap music is much higher.

 

Which is why I said what I did about those 4 guys getting killed in a recording studio; statistically, the odds of them being involved in rap are much higher than any other genre.

 

That is also why I/we don't want to be involved; sure, it's a case by case scenario no matter WHO you allow in, but the stats pretty much speak for themself. Since our project studio is in our home, it's just not worth the potential trouble.

 

As always, YMMV.

[A_Str8]

Originally posted by dougb415 Which is why I said what I did about those 4 guys getting killed in a recording studio; statistically, the odds of them being involved in rap are much higher than any other genre.

 

 

Right. Statistically. Because you can get accurate statistics on what demographics are commiting what crimes from the news. Now go back and read my past posts in this thread.

[dougb415]

Originally posted by A_Str8 Right. Statistically. Because you can get accurate statistics on what demographics are commiting what crimes from the news. Now go back and read my past posts in this thread.

You keep skirting around the issue. The news reported that 4 men were killed at a recording studio. That is ALL that was reported on the local station. NOTHING FURTHER WAS STATED ON THE NEWS.

Got that yet? No spin from the news. No demographics, no statistics. Just a blurb that 4 men had been killed at a recording studio. THAT'S ALL THAT WAS SAID.

Again - no bias, no details.

I turned to my wife and said "I'll bet they were involved in rap."

Was I right, or was I wrong? Deny, twist, spin, wring your hands, whatever... the facts remain. Yet for some reason you seem to have trouble saying "Yes, they were involved in rap." Instead you want to paint some picture saying that it's the fault of the media.

I'm sorry if you feel persecuted, or if you feel my wife and I are ignorant, and that everybody else is ignorant. Not quite sure why it's so important to you... but you might get a little more from me if you would answer the questions I have asked. Instead, you ignore them and tell me to go read what you've posted.

Doesn't work that way.

Now, if I had posted that I have been a musician for 40+ years and that I feel I've paid my dues and that I no longer will play "Mustang Sally" in any shape, form or fashion, would you be giving me grief for my mistreatment of Wilson Pickett? Would I be labeled ignorant? Would you be telling me that my wife and I are partially responsible for the way our society is today?

I plan on letting this go, and agreeing that we disagree on this subject.

MERRY CHRISTMAS!

[A_Str8]

I fail to see how I am skirting around the issue. I did not claim that 4 men weren't killed or that rap was not involved. I did not claim it was somehow the media's fault. From the beginning I have basically been saying that it is unfair to assume that all of rap is violent etc based on media portrayal that focuses on violence when its related to rap and ignores the violence elsewhere.

If you haven't gotten that by reading everything I wrote, then we really have been talking past eachother and can't even agree to disagree because you're unaware of what we're disagreeing on.

And I'm sorry, i hadn't realized that because you said rap had to be involved and happened to be right it was proven that rap is generally dangerous to be involved with and other genres are bastions of safety.

And, once again going back to one of my previous posts:

"but as this particular line of ignorance is close to home, I couldn't resist."

Yes, if you said you were staying away from Mustang Sally because there was a shooting at an oldies party, I would think you were just as ignorant as I think you are now. I'm not sure that I would have gotten involved in the conversation, but stereotyping and prejudice is ignorant and wrong no matter who its directed against or who its perpetrated by.

I tell you read what I wrote because I already answered your questions and don't see the need to restate everything. If you took the time to read and consider what i wrote you would see that. But, you have already shown that you have a tendancy to reach conclusions without considering all information, so why should I be surprised?

We can let this go doug, because as I said earlier, i don't think much will be gained on a message board. Still, i have to try, so I urge you. For your own sake, for the sake of your wife, and for the people you come into contact with - dig a little deeper than what is fed to you. There's a lot more going on than you know. And, try to judge people based on individual merits, not on assumptions drawn from limited knowledge of that person.

[dougb415]

Rather than beating this proverbial horse to death, I'll just quote something that Phil posted earlier, which sums up my feelings. You may disagree; that's fine.

"Several musical styles have glorified "outlaws" and villains, and rap / hip hop certainly isn't the only one to do that. But there does seem to be a high percentage of such songs in rap, and in SOME areas of the rap music world, that is certainly an active element, and IMO, cause for concern for a studio owner. And unfortunately, the honest and sincere are vilified by the actions of those who promote and participate in that IMO.

Rock, rap, metal, country - genre and race doesn't matter to me - if it's racist, if it's demeaning to women, if it promotes violence, then I don't want to work on it. Bad joss, and if I don't feel right about something like that, I go with my gut and pass on the gig. And I've passed on a lot of gigs."

[A_Str8]

Forget it doug. No need to read what I've written already. You're right. Rap promotes violence. Period. If all you're seeing is violence in rap, you got the right picture. What mainstream media pushes to the forefront is indeed representative of the majority of rap.

I've been saying that the media is giving a lopsided picture of rap to make it seem more violent than it is and your response is that you stay away because its violence. Am I the only one seeing the humor here? Yet you would be mad if I told you to read what I've already written. You claim that I haven't answered your questions or addressed your points yet you've consistently avoided the issue of the media's bias.

Stay away from rap doug. Keep yourself and your wife safe. Just go with whatever stereotypes you come across out there and you guys should be fine. Don't consider people based on their own merits. What's the point when you can decide what they're like without even having to speak to them? I guess I'm just used to doing things the hard way.

Hopefully next time we're posting in the same thread you'll take the time to read what i write.

[joestanman]

So which hard rock studios have had people shot and killed in the recently?

[dougb415]

Originally posted by A_Str8 Forget it doug. No need to read what I've written already. You're right. Rap promotes violence. Period.

 

 

I'm beginning to think that you and walters might be the same person. Either that, or you seem to have no way to work thru things other than the extremes - it's either all okay, or it's all crap.

 

Besides trying to tell me over and over to read your posts, you might try reading what I (and others) have actually posted, without your defense mechanism automatically coming up for a fight.

 

Learn about the 'gray areas,' which is where most of us live.... and you also might try getting rid of that HUGE chip on your shoulder.

[Chao]

Originally posted by joestanman So which hard rock studios have had people shot and killed in the recently?