Members WaterMoc Posted March 8, 2011 Members Share Posted March 8, 2011 As I am 62 and still gigging with others my age, I have been giving this all a lot of thought. I saw the end coming to full time music work back in the 80s, so went back to school and got a law degree. Meanwhile the gigs dwindled to 2 and 3 nights for me, then even less. That was fine; I got into some other hobbies and political activism.. Right now music is pretty slow but thank God I can live without it. But the guitar players I work with are all-in. One is my age and waiting anxiously to get early retirement SS next summer from the few paltry day jobs and the few reported income gigs he's had. The other has a sound business, owns a {censored}load of equipment but is in financial trouble. The ones who seem to be flourishing in their old age are actually hustling constantly. They all teach as many students as they can handle. They take all gigs and schmooze other musicians and clubowners. My old piano teacher is about 80 and gets lots and lots of solo work from all her contacts, corporate and nonprofit stuff, plus teaches, plus is a music director at a local parish. A fiddle player my age also teaches, works several different groups and records. Both are sober and poised performers with lifelong musical backgrounds. I.e., not late-blooming garage band types like me. All in all, I'm glad I saw the writing on the wall and planned for the future. I only wish I'd learned a better class of music, instead of the loud distorted crap I'm stuck with now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sventvkg Posted March 8, 2011 Author Members Share Posted March 8, 2011 And the point you make is why copyright law was brought into existence . Good old fashioned values held that a days work deserved it's reward .... Of course the bigger risk you take the bigger the thud should things not pan out . Contingency's are pretty much in order in todays world of outsourcing and offshoring and technologies "progress" sometimes being the same as a bull in the china shop .... Yup, it is taking a chance..But you aren't going to get {censored} if you don't take the chance, ya dig? Nothing Great comes easy 99.9% of the time in life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members richardmac Posted March 8, 2011 Members Share Posted March 8, 2011 Yes, indeed, how much money DO musicians who know mixed martial arts get paid? He's making so much money he forgot to bother finishing his sentence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members richardmac Posted March 8, 2011 Members Share Posted March 8, 2011 Yup, it is taking a chance..But you aren't going to get {censored} if you don't take the chance, ya dig? Nothing Great comes easy 99.9% of the time in life. We take a chance every time we write a song and play it in front of strangers. Here's the truth in what you said - no matter WHAT level you are on, you will need to take chances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mikedavid00 Posted March 8, 2011 Members Share Posted March 8, 2011 I notice you mention "urban" a couple of times as a noun - from that, it sounds like it is some sort of social network or tool ?If so, and you are having problems finding people really focused or not interesting in taking the same path you are, maybe it's the wrong tool for you. I'm offering free help in order to help people help themselves all for fun. Come to my studio, lets lay down some tracks and release some mixtapes and material. Cause right now you doing NOTHING. Just sitting in your bedroom dreaming. They unfortunately take themselves way too serious due to ego and other issues and can't realistically see themselves for what they really are. I can see myself for what I am. They can't. This thread was great because people can see themselves for what they are and what they've made of their careers and hobby. Some are still in denial demanding to sell their music online for whatever reason holding themselves back from their music getting out. In denial about how no one listens to radio anymore. In denial about the industries alive and well monopoly on the airwaves. In denial about the fact you need to be signed to make any real money in this industry. In denial about the poor work ethic of most artists. In denial about song writing ability not being that important anymore. In denial about the sound of their own music. You seem to have some sort of inner denial of the word 'urban' so we can add that to the above list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Poker99 Posted March 8, 2011 Members Share Posted March 8, 2011 Going all-in could make sense in 1970 or 1980. It doesn't make any sense in 2011! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mikedavid00 Posted March 8, 2011 Members Share Posted March 8, 2011 The kids into sports do fall back, though. We had a quarterback at USF who went on to play very briefly for the Jets. He was good but he wasn't great, and you need to be great in the NFL. So what is this kid doing nowadays? He's a high school football coach. Another kid was the center on the Bucs Super Bowl team - he went to the high school my kids will end up going to. He had a few years in the NFL, but then the NFL was done with him. What does he do? He has his own air conditioning business. Again more bad examples. Kids out there should not be using NFL FOOTBALL PLAYERS as examples of what to do if your career doesn't pan out. I mean come on man are you freaking serious? In the REAL world, a musician will try to leave music, get a job doing something like labor etc, and find the whole factory floor is speaking Spanish and they aren't welcome. Not welcome in conversation on the floor or in the lunch room and they will quickly leave. Or they will go to a job painting and experience reverse racism and not get hired. You are coddled in public education so you wouldn't know about what is really out there in the real world. The new America is a very, very language based, racist place in many parts of the US if you are a musician trying to just change careers, become a painter, mover, delivery person, etc. You simply aren't welcome in with the rest of the staff anymore. And here you are talking about NFL PLAYERS as an example?? Gee.. the public sector people with their huge salaries, pensions, and part time jobs always have this skewed, strange outlook of the 'real world'. They just don't understand it. But anyone going into it had better know the odds they're up against, and of course I think everyone here does. The problem with urban is that I can make a track, possibly even get someone on radio and get them 100,000 views and 10k twitter followers. The thing is, they might feel as if they made it, but if you ain't making money, you ain't making it. That's way I see things. I know the reality - most musicians have family, spouses or the gov't looking after them to live a party. Notice I didn't say pursue a dream. I said 'live a party'. Let's take that girl who was playing acoustic in that other thread. Is she REALLY pursuing anything? Or is she just writing songs, hanging out, getting praise, and being lazy while everyone is supporting her? If she was actively pursuing anything, she'd be getting vocal lessons, seeking out help from good song writers, and trying to cut an album and tour. People like to hate on me and never blame the artist, but the real reason I don't have any artists to work with is because they just aren't serious. They aren't pursuing their dreams. They are just dreaming. I myself am also an artist (not vocal though) doing this on the side. I have the will, drive, motivation to make this happen. If I can't find an artist that shares the same spirit, then oh well. Some DO share the same spirit, but they have been F grade artists that are below my abilities. I give them kudos for saying they were ready at any time and to let them know. But I need a good C or B grade artist.. not F. Now are these artists pursuing anything musically, or are they just sitting around dreaming and living off everyone else around them? I would say most are doing the latter. They go out clubbing 2-4 times a week telling their parents or gf's that it's part of their 'job' because they are in music etc. They really do believe their own BS. I think if they want to pursue something, they should come into my studio. Write some bars, lay down some tracks with me, and we can push out a mixtape and put it online and get a Youtube and Twitter started for them. And then 2 months later do another mixtape. Then another and build a fan base. This is how your pursue something. If you don't make it, then there's LOTS of other careers you can go into. But in this day and age people need to understand what reverse racism and discrimination is. It's a HUGE problem that isn't talked about and if you are in the US looking to just go into painting or factory work or landscaping you have might have some life lessons to learn (depending on where you live) and the new realities of living in America will slap you across the face. Kids, throw the NFL stuff out the window. Get real. If you aren't really pursuing (you know it deep down), save yourself now and go to school to be a teacher or ultrasound technician or something like that. You'll be so glad you did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueStrat Posted March 8, 2011 Members Share Posted March 8, 2011 In denial about how no one listens to radio anymore. I think it's you who is in denial, but whatever. My daughter and son in law are in their early 20s. My wife and I visited their church Sunday night. It has about 250 people, the average age of the church is probably 23-25. The pastor just turned 30. They announced that a local Christian radio station was donating air time for one of their ministries (snowboard and skateboarding outreach). Everyone laughed, and the pastor said "Yeah, I know, for those of you who still have a radio and know what one is, check it out!" Then he announced "copies of the message would be uploaded on itunes for podcasting, and for the 6 of you without iphones, droids or ipods, a CDR will be available- if you still have a CD player". More laughter. Then he said 'keep checking your phones for bulletins, updates and schedules". The entire church communicates via text and twitter. And then, as if we didn't feel old enough, he said "turn to Matthew 21" and 2/3 of the room lit up with everyone having a bible app on their phones. This isn't some big city we live in, it's a town of 50k in North Idaho. It's a new world, and the old one is dying fast. Radio is still big for a certain demographic, and hip hop may be one, country music another, but the trend is that it's going the way of the phonograph and the land line. but if you ain't making money, you ain't making it. I agree with you there. That's why 'free' is a terrible indicator of how well you're doing. I think if they want to pursue something, they should come into my studio. Write some bars, lay down some tracks with me, and we can push out a mixtape and put it online and get a Youtube and Twitter started for them. And then 2 months later do another mixtape. Then another and build a fan base. This is how your pursue something. I'm not so sure about that anymore. As with most things, the first few to try it do okay. The next two million, not so much. Once one person finds something that works and then everyone else jumps on it, it's game over. But in this day and age people need to understand what reverse racism and discrimination is. It's a HUGE problem that isn't talked about and if you are in the US looking to just go into painting or factory work or landscaping you have might have some life lessons to learn (depending on where you live) and the new realities of living in America will slap you across the face. Depending indeed. You keep talking about 'reality' as if it's the same everywhere. The fact is, these things you talk about might apply to urban areas, but the majority of the country doesn't live in a urban area. They live in suburbs and small towns for the most part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members PermaNoobie Posted March 8, 2011 Members Share Posted March 8, 2011 I am in Urban and my music is for free. That could be a tool or network or service, it could be some kind of zone in Second Life or something; it's not a denial of anything, if anything it's an acceptance that there could be a tool or service or network or something called "Urban". Let's check out that preface again : I notice you mention "urban" a couple of times as a noun - from that, it sounds like it is some sort of social network or tool ? It wouldn't be shocking, after all, there's a small e-tailer out there called "Amazon". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sventvkg Posted March 8, 2011 Author Members Share Posted March 8, 2011 Going all-in could make sense in 1970 or 1980.It doesn't make any sense in 2011! Doesn't make sense to you but some people are getting cuts writing songs and some people are still making a living at music because they did go for it. Those people would have done it in 1970 or today because they have to. You don't have that burning desire along with most people on these forums, hence it doesn't make sense to you. Make sense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members flatfinger Posted March 8, 2011 Members Share Posted March 8, 2011 You don't have that burning desire along with most people on these forums, hence it doesn't make sense to you. Make sense? That was condescending!!! Everyone must choose their own path. I understand the mindset you have adopted completely and would never deny that there is great empowerment in determination , persistence and dedication . ( In fact , the English language seems to have an abundance of words for this quality !!) But sometimes the environment is such that all the stick-to-it-ness in the universe can't help . It is wise for a person to try and evaluate the landscape ( just as a great war time commander is ever vigilant in his awareness of topography ) ... If you look at the lions share of success books out there , including the grand daddy of them all ( Think and grow rich ) you will find they all extol the never quit no matter what mantra . Take a peak out side the existing comfort zone and get and read " The Dip " by Seth Godin.It's a inexpensive and short book . I would add that if you you look at the most successful battle field leaders in history , they all were adept at identifying a no win circumstance and would begrudgingly go ahead and retreat and live to fight another day ! " Discretion is the better part of valor " Please understand that I offer up these words in the spirit of good will sventvkg! I have nothing but respect for your love of music and consider you a kindred spirit ... Remember that in all things , balance is the key . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sventvkg Posted March 8, 2011 Author Members Share Posted March 8, 2011 I wasn't being mean finger. it's the truth and the dichotomy..No dissing. I was there myself for years brother till I realized it was {censored} or get off the pot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Poker99 Posted March 8, 2011 Members Share Posted March 8, 2011 I didn't care anyway, everything's fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rudolf von Hagenwil Posted March 9, 2011 Members Share Posted March 9, 2011 Musician do not get older, only kind of disappear, maybe suddenly die, nobody really knows exactly. Is Beethoven still among us, did he die, or only hide from his fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sventvkg Posted March 9, 2011 Author Members Share Posted March 9, 2011 Musician do not get older, only kind of disappear, maybe suddenly die, nobody really knows exactly. Is Beethoven still among us, did he die, or only hide from his fans. LOLOLOLOLOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators daddymack Posted March 9, 2011 Moderators Share Posted March 9, 2011 according to wikipedia, Beethoven is still dead... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Scafeets Posted March 10, 2011 Members Share Posted March 10, 2011 I'm 55 years old and play four gigs per week. I also do weddings and corporate gigs.I don't play songs for the young. I play tunes that older people enjoy. They have the money and they like what I do.I will do it for as long as I can. ..and then? I think that's what the OP is asking. How prepared are you for life after gigging? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dessalines Posted March 10, 2011 Members Share Posted March 10, 2011 according to wikipedia, Beethoven is still dead... Along with Francisco Franco? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sventvkg Posted March 10, 2011 Author Members Share Posted March 10, 2011 ..and then? I think that's what the OP is asking. How prepared are you for life after gigging? Right. Most I know are not prepared and the ones that can't gig enough anymore are in REALLY REALLY bad shape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators daddymack Posted March 10, 2011 Moderators Share Posted March 10, 2011 Along with Francisco Franco? you mean, of course, Generalissimo Francisco Franco, yes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MDLMUSIC Posted March 11, 2011 Members Share Posted March 11, 2011 Musician do not get older, only kind of disappear, maybe suddenly die, nobody really knows exactly. Is Beethoven still among us, did he die, or only hide from his fans. Actually, I believe he's de-composing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Guns & Roses Posted March 11, 2011 Members Share Posted March 11, 2011 Sorry to interrupt, It's interesting to find that here all of the replies are talking about men.Musicians refer to men only? AnywayI thought that's just an attitude to life, how you treat ityou can always have your dreams and still live in real life, i mean do something else to make money to support your singingthe so called "financial freedom"I know a musician who used to produce pop (here i mean really popular) songs across the countryand now, he has reached his age, he starts to run a small restaurantand he really enjoys it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dessalines Posted March 11, 2011 Members Share Posted March 11, 2011 you mean, of course, Generalissimo Francisco Franco, yes? Damn I forgot his title.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators daddymack Posted March 11, 2011 Moderators Share Posted March 11, 2011 Sorry to interrupt, It's interesting to find that here all of the replies are talking about men.Musicians refer to men only? No, but it turns out that most of the people we deal with here are of the male gender...not all. By the same token the truly dedicated women musicians I have known who are/were pros are either dead (the latest one sadly at the age of 55) or married someone who was financially stable....or still at it (1st chair symphony player...job for life...almost) and some have simply faded into the woodwork...so I will guess their fates were no betterthan their male counterparts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rudolf von Hagenwil Posted March 11, 2011 Members Share Posted March 11, 2011 you mean, of course, Generalissimo Francisco Franco, yes? and his collegue Augusto José Pinocchio in Chile? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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