Members scapier Posted November 28, 2007 Members Share Posted November 28, 2007 Well I shipped it off yesterday to Chicago, for the full "Tweakhead" mod from Black Lion Audio. My 002 will come back with new pres new analog everything, a new clock and two isolated power supplies. The Canadian Dollar is just too strong to resist sending the box in for the refit. I promise to give everyone a frank review when it comes back in three weeks or so. Pretty excited. My neighbour sent his motu in a couple of weeks ago so I can tell you what he thinks of his mod too. Spencer Capier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted November 28, 2007 Members Share Posted November 28, 2007 Lettuce know how it sounds when you get it back!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 Lettuce know how it sounds when you get it back!! Yeah, please leaf us a post with your thoughts once you get a chance to put it through its paces Spencer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WKG Posted November 29, 2007 Members Share Posted November 29, 2007 You will love it. I sent my 003r in for the full tweakhead and couldn't be more satisfied with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Magpel Posted December 2, 2007 Members Share Posted December 2, 2007 Anyone ever do their Delta 1010 mod? It's temptacious...watching this thread with interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted December 4, 2007 Moderators Share Posted December 4, 2007 The longer I wait for a steal of a deal on a used Apogee... and it never shows, the more I think I should just do my 002 and start using those pres along with my existing pres. $795 is starting to sound like a bargain. I look forward to any feedback on these. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted December 4, 2007 Members Share Posted December 4, 2007 The longer I wait for a steal of a deal on a used Apogee... and it never shows, the more I think I should just do my 002 and start using those pres along with my existing pres.$795 is starting to sound like a bargain. I look forward to any feedback on these. If you, uh, romaine with the idea of modding your 002, the one issue I can see is once you upgrade to another DAW, you won't be able to use your lovely new converters anymore. If you buy a used Apogee, on the other hand, you can continue to use that after upgrading your DAW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted December 4, 2007 Moderators Share Posted December 4, 2007 If you, uh, romaine with the idea of modding your 002, the one issue I can see is once you upgrade to another DAW, you won't be able to use your lovely new converters anymore. If you buy a used Apogee, on the other hand, you can continue to use that after upgrading your DAW. Ken, you produce a good point. The 002 is sadly no longer in it's salad days. With an external I could pack it up like leftovers and enjoy later after moving on. I'm getting hungry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MrJoshua Posted December 4, 2007 Members Share Posted December 4, 2007 I use an Apogee Rosetta 200 with my 002 Rack, connected via S/PDIF, and it's very nice. That said, I also have a Focusrite ISA-428 preamp with the optional 8-channel converter card connected via lightpipe, and while it isn't quite at the Apogee's level (and really, that could very easily be my own expectations that make me think that - I'm as human as the next pair of ears) it does a very solid job of conversion. And it's attached to four preamps that I think sound fantastic. Unless you're dead-set on getting the Apogee, I'd think about looking into some lower-cost options like the Focusrite. Not that the Focusrite is cheap, but when you look at the per-channel preamp cost and then the per-channel converter cost for the add-on card, it's very reasonably priced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members CME Posted December 19, 2007 Members Share Posted December 19, 2007 Just a bump to see if you got the 002 back yet. The HD mod I had done on my 002 the best money I've spent on my studio yet. Just seeing how you felt about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 Two quick questions, no three: Did you get it back yet Spencer? If so, how do you like it? Is it tasty? Anyone got Black Lion's email addy and / or website URL? If so, it might be a good idea to post it here. Finally, what is their policy regarding satisfaction with the mod? I mean, don't get me wrong here - I've heard nothing but good things about their work, but what if the customer got their unit back and it sounded no better - or worse - to them? Say they complained it sounded like someone was taking an iceberg to their eardrums - then what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 www.blacklionaudio.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 If you, uh, romaine with the idea of modding your 002, the one issue I can see is once you upgrade to another DAW, you won't be able to use your lovely new converters anymore. If you buy a used Apogee, on the other hand, you can continue to use that after upgrading your DAW. As long as the I/O requirements and sample rates of the new DAW remain unchanged, or within the interfacing and operational parameters of the Apogee, sure. The same is basically also true of the 002; as long as Digidesign continues to update PT LE and keeps the 002 in the loop on that, you can continue to use newer versions of PTLE with it. I suspect now that it has been supplanted by the Digi 003, support will eventually cease; just as it did (after the 002 was released) with the Digi 001 at version 6.4. However, the 002 and 003 are similar in a lot of ways, so I suspect it might have a longer support period than the 001 had. Even Digidesign said the 003 is intended more for new purchasers than it is as an "upgrade" for 002 owners, and having owned the 002 and reviewed the 003, I think that's a little modest on their part - I found several things improved on the 003. But either way, even if (when) Digidesign does stop releasing PT upgrades for it, the 002 hardware interface (Black Lion modded or not) should still function as an interface for any third party software, as long as that software uses ASIO drivers for the audio interface. But of the two, I'd suspect the Apogee would probably have the longer "rack life", but time will tell... maybe the BLA mod will prove so popular that some people will stay with older versions of PT at some future point just to keep using their existing hardware that they like, or even "jump ship" to a different DAW program. The possibility, and options are there. But that is certainly a legit concern IMO, with the date of the inability to use it with future versions of PT LE being closer than the date when it won't be useable with any current / new versions of third-party DAW software. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members CME Posted December 19, 2007 Members Share Posted December 19, 2007 As far as your "guarantee" question, I'm really not for sure what their policy is. I did read of a few people having some minor issues when they got their units back and BLA quickly fixed the issues. But I didn't have any problems whatsoever. To the Digi support question. From what Digi has stated so far. As long as the 003 is around the 002 should be also. They also stated this about the mBox when the mBox 2's came out. According to them their designs are close enough that supporting both is easy. Only time can prove this true, and does make some sense. Afaik the 001 was dropped mainly because of it being a pci interface (with most computers starting to go PCI-X and PCIe). Unlike the mBox/002 which are plug and play. So that being the case I'd say as long as Firewire is available on computers the 002/003's will be around. But again only time will tell. As far me staying with my 002 on an HD system could take me away at this point. But I don't have that kind of money for my hobby, yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted December 19, 2007 Members Share Posted December 19, 2007 That's okay. I don't think most people who are not running a commercial studio really need an HD system. Note that I said most people. You can do quite a lot with a Digi001-3 studio and have it sound amazing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 You can do quite a lot with a Digi001-3 studio and have it sound amazing. No argument there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members scapier Posted December 25, 2007 Author Members Share Posted December 25, 2007 I get the 002 back on the 27th, really the 28th when I drive south of the border to pick it up. My neighbour got a Black Lion Mod on his MOTU and he is VERY happy with it. I promise to let you all know as soon as I do! Happy Christmas to you all! Spencer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted December 25, 2007 Share Posted December 25, 2007 And a Merry Christmas to you too Spencer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members js1 Posted December 29, 2007 Members Share Posted December 29, 2007 Just got back from recording at a friend's place who had the 002 with the Black Lion mod. He felt that the mod wasn't the night and day difference he expected, and that the improvements were subtle. But he also commented on the inaccuracy of audio memory... js Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted December 30, 2007 Members Share Posted December 30, 2007 ...I mean, don't get me wrong here - I've heard nothing but good things about their work, but what if the customer got their unit back and it sounded no better - or worse - to them? Say they complained it sounded like someone was taking an iceberg to their eardrums - then what? When someone drops a stack of cash on new gear or a mod for old gear and they don't hear breathtaking new details and a greatly enhanced stereo soundfield and staggering sonic depth -- that will be news. Not everyone is equally impressed with the products of the mod shops. Some of these joints do things like replacing audio opamps with video opamps -- presumably to capture those all important only-a-dog-can-hear-'em frequencies but also opening the unit up to RF contamination of various types. (I'm not gonna name names because I think the shop in question -- which is pertinent to this thread -- may no longer perform that particular mod. But it should, perhaps, give one an idea about the level of thinking behind some of these mods.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted December 30, 2007 Members Share Posted December 30, 2007 I'd be really pissed if there were no discernible difference, or I had to strain to hear the difference. All my upgrades have not been subtle (switching from Digi001 converters, for instance, to Apogee Rosetta 800 is something that *everyone* can hear - and everyone has! ), but yeah, I'd be pissed off if I couldn't hear the difference. The next "upgrade" I am going to probably do is to get the Primacoustic Recoil Stabilizers. And if I am going to drop $200 for what's essentially ultra heavy foam , I better hear the freakin' difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members scapier Posted December 31, 2007 Author Members Share Posted December 31, 2007 I haven't dug in too deep with the new/old unit (and as my internet is off line for a couple of days while I switch ISP I thought a quick review was better than none) BUT I can say this: Certainly I can hear a distinctive and altogether preferable difference in the overall sound of the unit. It's like a blanket was removed from my system. Highs are higher and more detailed, bass is clearer. The analog i/o has helped the monitoring, so that even old mixes sound better and clearer. Plugins are more noticeable. Mic pres are not brittle sounding (in fact quite 'pristine') and may well be quite useable, and my John Hardys now sound like a color option rather than the only trick in my bag. Black Lion sends a little document with the modded 002 saying it will run hotter than before so ensure proper ventilation. I hope it's okay in my rack with spaces above for breathing. I can say it was worth the investment, but if I have any second thoughts in the coming weeks I'll let you know! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MrJoshua Posted December 31, 2007 Members Share Posted December 31, 2007 Your old mixes sound better and clearer? I had exactly the opposite reaction when I started monitoring through the Apogee instead of my 002 Rack's converters. Problems with the old mixes became much more apparent, and I could hear things in the mixes that I never noticed before. However, it's been quite a while since I did this, and it was only a few months later that I switched from Alesis M1 Active monitors to Adam A7s, which also made a big difference. So I suppose it's possible that I'm misremembering how much of a difference the converters made by themselves, but I'm sure that when I went back and listened to some of my old mixes it made me wince. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted December 31, 2007 Members Share Posted December 31, 2007 I've generally liked my old mixes on the old equipment, but I had to work so much harder to get it there. However, the mixes that I didn't like on the old equipment, I loathe now!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lawrence Farr Posted January 1, 2008 Members Share Posted January 1, 2008 Your old mixes sound better and clearer? I had exactly the opposite reaction when I started monitoring through the Apogee instead of my 002 Rack's converters. Problems with the old mixes became much more apparent, and I could hear things in the mixes that I never noticed before. . Yup, same thing here. Many of my old mixes didn't hold up. Converters and speakers make a huge difference. Putting a Lavry Black and a good set of active monitors on the tail end of my daw was like night and day. Now the old mixes, though flawed, still sounded 'clearer' since the DA was out of the way. But they were flawed. I was often (apparently) EQ'ing around the Traveler DA and my Alesis Monitor Ones to get the sound I wanted and translation is MUCH better now... what I hear in the real world sounds much more like what I thought I heard in the studio. P.S. The Lavry Blue AD helps also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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