What sits where in a mix?

[cruciatus]

This is probably the most basic thing in the world but I got some freeware recording stuff and I'm thinking about what to put where in the mix as far as L-R goes. I guess the best way to learn this would be to listen to tons of songs in stereo and get the feel, but, my question is, as a rule of thumb, is there a specific place where

Drums

Rhythm Guitar

Lead Guitar

Piano

Bass

 

are supposed to sit? Something is wrong with my tape adapter for my CD player, I can't hear the L channel, and some of my old Stones CDs are almost unlistenable, so delineated are the L/R of the mix. Thanks. Apologies if this is too dumb for this forum.

[petejt]

I don't think it really matters. It is just limited by your imagination.

 

 

I guess you could try:-

 

Bass hard panned left and right

Lead Guitar in the centre

Piano panned 65% right

Rhythm Guitar panned 65% left

Drums in the centre

[Weathered]

 

I don't think it really matters. It is just limited by your imagination. I guess you could try:- Bass hard panned left and right Lead Guitar in the centre Piano panned 65% right Rhythm Guitar panned 65% left Drums in the centre

 

 

I definitely wouldn't do it this way. Almost every record has the drums in stereo, and the bass in the center.

 

Here's how I generally start a mix:

 

Kick, snare, bass guitar and lead vocal - panned center

Toms panned out as your look at the kit from the drummer's perspective (highest toms to the left, floor toms to the right)

Overheads panned 85% L and R

Guitars panned in stereo at least 50% (if there were multiple guitarists playing the rhythm part, I'll usually give each of them their own "side" of the mix)

Keys/anything else starts in the center and gets panned as it fits. Same goes for background vocals.

[elephantman]

I used to think that every "focal point" track had to be in the middle or doubled & panned equal amounts left & right. Bass? Middle. Drums? Pan them like you're looking at the kit. My mixes lacked depth.

 

Now, I'll nudge the lead vocal a little to one side (usually with very few effects-a little compression, maybe-and usually no doubling), lead guitar to the other side, etc. Some times just a little to one side (you'd be surprised how much just a little will open up a mix), sometimes a lot. Sometimes I end up with nothing dead center. Now my mixes "breathe" (as much as I can make them breathe, anyway). As was stated, use your imagination.

 

As for your old Stones stuff, it just wasn't recorded with the constraint of "What if one channel goes out?" in mind. Free your mind and your ass will follow.

[petejt]

 

I definitely wouldn't do it this way. Almost every record has the drums in stereo, and the bass in the center.

 

 

Why not? It can be done however the mixer wants to, there is no requirement to follow a typical formula no matter how many records are mixed in the way you specified.

 

 

I hope you are not being prejudiced against me.

[Weathered]

Why not? It can be done however the mixer wants to, there is no requirement to follow a typical formula no matter how many records are mixed in the way you specified. I hope you are not being prejudiced against me.

 

I'm teh amp forum . You aren't allowed to post anywhere else.

 

 

You're correct that there's not a formula. Most records nowadays have the drums in stereo, and that really seems to add depth. Apart from that, pan to your heart's content. What works for some styles doesn't work for others.

 

What I posted was just how I generally "rough-in" my mix before I move stuff around, and it always ends up changing as the mix develops.

[cruciatus]

before it gets weird, i'm not saying that i believe or that anyone believes there is "one" way. i'm just looking for the most orthodox or typical way to do it. OF COURSE you can then do whatever you want from there. thanks guys.

[Weathered]

Honestly, the way that I was taught to pan was to put everything that is a focal point (for a rock mix, that'll usually end up being lead vocal and snare drum) in or around the center of the mix, and pan the rest to add to the spatial field. The reason that I tend to mix bass and kick drum in the center is because I tend to EQ them to mix together, and prefer to present an equal low end to both L and R channels.

[Majoria]

I leave the bass and kick in the center since then they will be the same on all systems. If someone listens to a song and their system has a sub, chances are they only have one sub channel which brings it back to mono. Now you listen to it on a two speakers system with no sub and it will sound different and you run the risk of someone being confused or disappointed with the difference in sound.

[UstadKhanAli]

This is probably the most basic thing in the world but I got some freeware recording stuff and I'm thinking about what to put where in the mix as far as L-R goes. I guess the best way to learn this would be to listen to tons of songs in stereo and get the feel, but, my question is, as a rule of thumb, is there a specific place where Drums Rhythm Guitar Lead Guitar Piano Bass are supposed to sit? Something is wrong with my tape adapter for my CD player, I can't hear the L channel, and some of my old Stones CDs are almost unlistenable, so delineated are the L/R of the mix. Thanks. Apologies if this is too dumb for this forum.

 

Like most of the others, I believe that it's just whatever sounds good. That said, I usually (note that I said "usually") have kick and snare more or less and bass more or less in the middle. The other stuff, it's all over the place, as it depends on the song.

 

I also do this other sort of thing. I don't know, it's probably just psychological, but it makes me feel better. I put the the lead instrument or vocal in the middle, quite often. 0. Right in the middle. And I might have the bass or snare just slightly off, like -1 or -2, just barely off from the center. And honestly, I can't tell the difference, certainly not in my room, but I feel better. Stupid, perhaps, but if it makes me feel better, I'll go ahead and do it!!

 

There are some times when I don't pan lead vocals, snare, kick, and bass to the middle. I've done some "Van Halen" type mixes with the rhythm gtr more on one side, the bass more on the other, some mixes with the drums all the way to the right, with only the room mics on the left, and vocals flying all over the place, etc. etc.

[hugh manatee]

i try not to pan more than 30-35% unless im going for a hard pan, like with toms over heads etc. although if you have say a stereo guitar i do like a 50-50, sometimes less sometimes more. i also will sometimes pan the hihats a little bit to my left. i usually put Kick, snare, bass, and lead vocal dead center then backups/delays all over the left and right, keys i usually go opposite guitars, or stereo not too hard though, with keys usually one is a clean signal and the other is a trem/delay thing, so hard left and right can be like HUH?

[UstadKhanAli]

I rarely mic high-hats, but if I do, I pan that usually to the right (audience perspective, assuming a right-handed kit). I pan guitars anywhere from all the way to virtually nothing, so it really depends on what I am going after. I also move things around, depending the section of the song.

[C JoGo]

We also automate the channels---so we can move them into "place" for leads, etc. But generally : bass/kick/snare/lead vocal --dead center...may move the effects returns out of center, though.

[Palaver]

 

I definitely wouldn't do it this way. Almost every record has the drums in stereo, and the bass in the center. Here's how I generally start a mix: Kick, snare, bass guitar and lead vocal - panned center Toms panned out as your look at the kit from the drummer's perspective (highest toms to the left, floor toms to the right) Overheads panned 85% L and R Guitars panned in stereo at least 50% (if there were multiple guitarists playing the rhythm part, I'll usually give each of them their own "side" of the mix) Keys/anything else starts in the center and gets panned as it fits. Same goes for background vocals.

 

 

Word! Altho, being a drummer, I actually do my hi-hats panned to the left, and from the perspective as if I was sitting at my kit. I think this is due to my familiarity from that perspective, and I feel like I am more familiar with setting the ratios (volumes) that way. I guess it would be like you tuning a left-handed drummer!

 

Sometimes, if things are in the same bandwidth I'll do something like this... pan a stab synth hard-right and a guitar lead or something to the hard left (usually not entirely left and right).

 

I'll usually EQ this way... screw with the frequency until I find the critical point that alters the sound the most. Then, I'll carve around this (cut away frequencies that don't or have little affect to the part). If another instrument is in a very similar bandwidth, then it gets tricky... drop it or mess with these critical points.. or even high-cut or low-cut.

 

My next step is learning how to properly compress different frequencies and volume automation for certain parts.

 

-Phil

[Phil O'Keefe]

Audience vs drummer's perspective is a matter of personal taste, although there has been a tendency for one vs the other in the USA vs the UK in the past... but either can be and is used in both regions.

 

Bass is often panned in the center, as is lead vocals and kick / snare. Part of that is historical - with vinyl, placing strong bass content sources to one side or the other could cause problems with disc cutting and stylus skipping, but with CD's and MP3's, those restrictions are not what they used to be. However, since strong bass content is more difficult to determine insofar as directionality, it's still not a bad idea to place the kick and bass to the center.

 

But there's really no hard and fast "rules" on the subject, and if the panning works for you, by all means, feel free to experiment.

[nerol1st]

There isn't any rules but bass frequencies don't tend to be very direction hence the reason they are (most of the time) set to the center. While upper frequencies tend to get panned more.

 

For me personally I like this:

 

Guitar 1 hard R

Guitar 2 hard R

Guitar 1 hard L

Guitar 2 hard L

Bass- C

Kick - C

Snare- C

High hat - R30% (and kept low volume wise)

Rack tom 1 - R25%

Rack tom 2 - C

Floor tom 1 - L20%

Floor tom 2 - L40%

OH- Panned hard L and R (audience perspective)

Main Vocals - C

Harmony vocals -C

Effects vocals - Panned around for effect

Synths, keyboards, acoustic - Always recorded in stereo if possible (and kept that way post).

[FireWithin]

I see you have 2 guitars with a total of 4 guitar tracks. is guitar 1 the same track cloned and panned or the same guitarist and line recorded twice?

[SFW]

IMHO, it is always better to have the player play the track multiple times, as to me it sounds better than just doing a copy paste. YMMV.

[cruciatus]

 

player play the track multiple times

 

 

how close do you have to be from one take to the next. . .

 

 

sounds better than just doing a copy paste

 

 

appears the answer is in there, i.e., a great guitarist will be very[ close although it's probably not possible to nail it the exact same way. but i'm guessing the philosophy is to be as close as humanly possible.

[nerol1st]

 

I see you have 2 guitars with a total of 4 guitar tracks. is guitar 1 the same track cloned and panned or the same guitarist and line recorded twice?

 

 

Clone. If there is only one part then it gets cloned 3 more times (after original).

[SFW]

What makes multiple guitar tracks sound "thicker" is that you often don't play it exactly the same every time. Very close? Yes. The beauty is that those little inconsistencies help the overall sound to naturally "chorus." Thus making the overall guitar tone thicker. Now, for this to work the guitarist has to know the part and be able to execute it every time without major deviations. Make since?

 

If you check out my bands page (www.myspace.com/savageevolution) you'll hear the effect that I'm talking about. All of the distorted guitars were tracked four times, and paned to various parts of the stereo spectrum. It helps to get a wider sonic field.... at least I think so anyway...

[UstadKhanAli]

And you can use a slightly different tone, different guitar, different amp, different mic, whatever to produce thicker tones as well.

[FireWithin]

thanks!

 

I've played around with this, just wanted to hear what others are doing. In my solo project I'll track as many times as I like without issues since its my songs, played by me(and on all instruments).

 

But, in my full time band...it's a bit harder as different guitarist play different and do not nail it as perfect.

 

With that in mind, if you have guitarist minus egos.(...haha, GL!) you might suggest one playing all the rythem parts resulting in a much tighter sound. Then use second guitarist for the harmonys, solos, etc.

[SFW]

As the only guitarist in my band, it makes life a little easier on that end. Being stupid prepared for recording helps a lot as well. I just find it more satisfying to play the part multiple times as opposed to copy and paste. I view it more as an accomplishment and a good health challenge. And IMHO, it sounds better that way. But everyone does it differently.

[Phil O'Keefe]

 

I see you have 2 guitars with a total of 4 guitar tracks. is guitar 1 the same track cloned and panned or the same guitarist and line recorded twice?

 

 

If the guitarist can pull it off, I always prefer tracking it twice vs cloning.