God I hate de-essing!!

[flatfinger]

Spent a long time on a song recently , what a bitch .

 

I was thinking that I need to not even print it on the takes to start

 

with , so here is the question of the day .

 

 

What are your tricks and tips for avoiding siblance when recording vocals ?? You know , stuff like don't use a cheap , fizzy chineese condensor with a hefty presence in the 4-6khz range , ...put a pencil in front of the capsule ???

 

 

All your top secret trick please!:poke:

[Lee Flier]

Hmm... let's see...

 

1) Don't use a cheap, fizzy Chinese condenser with a hefty presence in the 4-6khz range.

 

2) put a pencil in front of the capsule.

 

 

Oh yeah, and pop screens help.

[Hulston Prickle]

I have an Audio Technica pop filter than greatly improved my vocal tracks. I place it about halfway between my mouth and the mic, but never any closer than 3" or so from the mic. I use a cheap Chinese condensor mic for vocals, and though you won't think it's a Neumann or anything, my silibance and pop problem is gone.

[UstadKhanAli]

My pop filter doesn't do a damn thing for siblance. Plosives, yes; sibilance, no (except in the sense that it might keep the singer farther away from the mic).

 

Use a darker mic.

 

Move the singer farther away from the mic.

 

Use Spitfish or the Massey de-esser or something else that works well. The Massey is very effective.

[albiedamned]

I agree that the pop screen only physically prevents plosives, not sibilance, but it can still help in another way. Arrange the mic so it is slightly off-axis with the pop screen. The singer will line up with the pop screen of course, and thus they won't be singing directly into the mic. This should cut down on sibilance. Don't make it too far off-axis since, assuming it's a cardiod mic, you don't want to miss its sweet spot. Just a little bit.

[alcohol]

I have the pop screen positioned higher than the mic and angle the mic slightly upward. The singer is not singing directly into the mic. This technique gets rid of most sibilance. Unless the singer has a whistle when they sing. In which case they need to see a dentist. There's practically nothing you can do to fix the problem.

[Phil O'Keefe]

 

I have the pop screen positioned higher than the mic and angle the mic slightly upward. The singer is not singing directly into the mic. This technique gets rid of most sibilance. Unless the singer has a whistle when they sing. In which case they need to see a dentist. There's practically nothing you can do to fix the problem.

 

 

In terms of "fixing it at the source" [always my general philosophy whenever possible], I find this to be the single most effective technique - place the mic lower than you might normally place it. Instead of on-axis and directly in front of the vocalist's mouth, try placing it lower - at chin or even neck height - and angle it upwards slightly, but with the pop screen [i usually use Stedmans] directly in front of their mouth. Let the singer sing "at" or "into" the pop screen, while they're actually singing "over" the top of the mic itself, and not blasting directly into the capsule.

 

I normally try to avoid going off-axis to either side of the vocalist, because a lot of large diaphragm condensers sound different when placed off-axis, and not in a "good" way.

 

As to a "whistle", I recorded a singer last year who had some denture issues that caused a whistle when he sang, and it is indeed a difficult thing to address. A de-esser can be helpful for sibilance, but usually won't help significantly by itself with a whistle. For that, the best course of action IMO [short of dental work] is to make sure they're aware of the issue so they can try to de-emphasize the problematic words / syllables, and do several passes at it and comp together the best / least problematic takes; then try a bit of de-essing. A darker mic would usually be appropriate for singers with a whistle problem too IMO.

[flatfinger]

Thanks for all replies; I will put the lower , tilted up method to the test . This paticular project , the singer wanted a sm-57 right in front of him to get an "on stage vibe " . I agreed , begrudgingly though I had a feeling I might regret it!!

The good thing ( always accenuate the positive ) is I did get better and come up with some new and better methods to de-ess . Ill be hearing that :eek:rattle snake :eek:sound for awhile though !!

[Phait]

directly in front of their mouth. Let the singer sing "at" or "into" the pop screen, while they're actually singing "over" the top of the mic itself, and not blasting directly into the capsule.

 

Ooh good one Phil, reminds me as I was watching Dave Gahan's session video, he was doing just that - I caught eye of it

 

81BhA5OwzKY

[Lee Flier]

Thanks for all replies; I will put the lower , tilted up method to the test . This paticular project , the singer wanted a sm-57 right in front of him to get an "on stage vibe " . I agreed , begrudgingly though I had a feeling I might regret it!!

 

Actually, a lot of singers request that, and it can actually help with your problem. Go ahead and give them the 57 or 58, but then put the "real" mic just behind it. They can use the 57 as a prop, scream into it, eat it, hold onto it, whatever they normally do onstage... it's not the mic that is actually recording. And it does just as well as a pencil for blocking sibilance from reaching the "real" mic.

[Phait]

Hey that pencil trick do you need the octagon shaped or round ones?

[offramp]

Either. The purpose is served.

[Phil O'Keefe]

For dealing with esses after the fact, don't overlook the usefulness of some judiciously targeted volume automation.

[TBush]

 

Hey that pencil trick do you need the octagon shaped or round ones?

 

 

#2 lead pencil. It's 'darker'...

 

:-)

[mtraugott]

For editing after the fact, sometimes after using a de-esser, if the problem still persists, as Phil said targeted automation works great. I also will use this little trick. I will put a compressor on with the side chain getting an input from a duplicate track of the vocal. On the duplicated track, us an eq to find the most offending frequencies, then eq out everything but those frequencies, and boost the frequency until it is nearly clipping, then adjust the compressor.

[CN Fletcher]

Record the 58 [or 57] as well as the "real" one and where the mosquito qualities of your cheap condenser mic really start to get in the way mix in a bit [or all] of the 58 and it should help.

 

Peace.

[offramp]

Totally agree. I did something similar, recently...used a Perception 200 and a vintage RCA BK5B on the vocalist. The P200, thankfully, doesn't have that spittle-y brittleness of cheap condensers, but I was erring on the side of caution by tossing the BK5B into the ring.

[Red Ant]

directly in front of their mouth. Let the singer sing "at" or "into" the pop screen, while they're actually singing "over" the top of the mic itself, and not blasting directly into the capsule.

 

This also has the added effect of helping the singer sing!!! If the head is pointed slightly down, all the muscles involved in singing are actually a bit more relaxed, and it really helps people sing! I do this with ALL singers, regardless of any potential sibilance issues or lack thereof - if it is a subtle enough angle they don't even notice or think about it. The only person who should ever sing UP into a mic is Lemmy

[jbsg02]

I use a de-esser all the time, I try not to pull too many db of compression. If the de-esser isnt enough I like to use the Waves C4 plug just before the de-esser and have it only compress somewhere between 2k-8k.

[WRGKMC]

Besides the items mentioned, you might try EQing the headphones to emphasize the esses on the monitor signal. This will gause the singer to avoid causing those sounds in the first place. It may feel a bit unnatureal for the singer but most deal with sound quality issues live all the time and will naturally adjust their singing to avoid peaking certain frequencies. Live singers rarely hear wnats coming from the PA horns and will overemphasize certain sounds so they can be heard on stage. Much of it is reflected and has lost its high end by the time it gets to the ears.

You can also experiment with some high fq added to some reverb in the mix for the same thing.

 

Play back the vocal track as is and EQ it through the monitor system and adjust so the Esses and Plosives are prevolent. Then have the singer redo the track. Chances are those Fqs will be greatly be reduced through singing technique.

[CN Fletcher]

 

Besides the items mentioned, you might try EQing the headphones to emphasize the esses on the monitor signal.

 

 

All due respect... that's a really good way to do a singer an injury!!

 

A better method is to pick a mic and position that minimizes their "esses"... or record the damn things and plug in an Empirical Labs "Derr-esser" during the mix.

 

Peace.