Members dgc480 Posted July 3, 2009 Members Share Posted July 3, 2009 Hey, so I'm working on processing my drum tracks right now. I recorded a full drum set for my band. What's really confusing me right now is that when I play the individual tracks none of them clip. However, when I play the whole set, the output bus clips....? Why would the drums not clip on the solo'd tracks, and then clip when I put them all together? Even if I just play the snare with the kick it clips, but the snare and kick by themselves don't clip at all?? I'm new to all this so I'm hoping there's a simple answer. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stevesherbert Posted July 3, 2009 Members Share Posted July 3, 2009 i'd say the simple answer is that it's because 2 things are louder than 1 thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dgc480 Posted July 3, 2009 Author Members Share Posted July 3, 2009 Oh haha is that really all it is? Wow I feel dumb now. I am really new to this. I just thought that if the individual channel output levels were below clipping that the whole mix would be below clipping. It makes it a bit difficult to figure out which track needs to be turned down to stop the mix from clipping. I guess all of them if I like the relative levels in my mix. I'm trying to make a rough master in cubase so I'm just trying to get all the tracks as loud as I can, without the mix clipping. thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Majoria Posted July 3, 2009 Members Share Posted July 3, 2009 For the project I'm working on right now I have a limiter on every drum track set around -10 or so, when all the tracks are added together and the faders brought down nothing clips. Stuff does add up. Just listen to your snare solo'd and then duplicate that track and listen to both snares solo'd, both are considerably louder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Zooey Posted July 3, 2009 Members Share Posted July 3, 2009 Can you group faders in Cubase? Set your relative levels, group them, then lower it until the master isn't clipping. Then lower it some more (assuming you're recording additional instruments) and turn your monitors up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Joe Gilder Posted July 3, 2009 Members Share Posted July 3, 2009 If you're already clipping the master with just drums, I would suggest turning ALL of your tracks down and turning UP your monitors. It's really easy when you're starting out to turn up a fader to hear something better rather than turning up the volume knob on your monitors (or headphones). If you can train yourself to do this, your life will be a lot easier (and you'll have a lot less clip lights in your future). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dgc480 Posted July 4, 2009 Author Members Share Posted July 4, 2009 ok I'll try to learn how to group faders. Do you make a folder track or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Cirrus Posted July 7, 2009 Members Share Posted July 7, 2009 As best as I recall... To group faders from different tracks, hold down shift while you click on the tracks you want to group together. Once they're all selected, right click on one of the selected tracks and left click "link" on the menu that pops up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted July 7, 2009 Moderators Share Posted July 7, 2009 So... if you've got a balance you like but you're clipping, the object is to lower all the tracks evenly to retain the exact balance you've been working on while still getting the level down to avoid the clipping. So, as mentioned, you group everything and lower it. If you do that, make sure you don't include you master fader in the group. If you do, un-group and bring your master back to zero and re-check for clipping. Repeat as needed. The object here is to keep your master fader at zero. Nominal, not off. Master at zero, other faders set for the balance you want, without clipping. Don't just grab the master and bring it down. The sounds gets worse the more you do. Keep you master at zero. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Zooey Posted July 7, 2009 Members Share Posted July 7, 2009 Don't just grab the master and bring it down. The sounds gets worse the more you do. Keep you master at zero. This is conventional, tried and true advice. But I know the engineers who code the applications say that lowering the master is audibly identical to lowering individual faders. I tend to leave my master fader at zero in PT anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted July 7, 2009 Moderators Share Posted July 7, 2009 That's what I hear as well. But what I hear... is that my mixes sound congested and overstuffed when I bring the master down. Not an imagination thing. It's what I hear with my ears. When I restructure the gain as detailed above things open up. I'd keep your master fader at zero. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted July 7, 2009 Moderators Share Posted July 7, 2009 And this may have to do with the practicality of adjusting the buss plug in's gain structure as well. There could be a multitude of reasons why I hear this that don't contradict the software engineer's point. I don't know. But I know what I hear. So I speak from a practical viewpoint... Keeping your master at zero allows you to keep control of your gain structure throughout your mix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 I'd try keeping your master fader (the stereo output fader / master) at zero. If it's clipping when you have multiple tracks playing, but not clipping when you solo individual tracks, then it's the cumulative volume that is probably overloading that master buss. The solution is to lower the individual track faders. You can also use a trim plugin, or lower the output level of any EQ or compressor plugins you may be using on the individual tracks to lower their output levels. However, the better idea, IMO, is to not track quite so "hot". Back when we were all using analog tape decks and / or 16 bit recorders, the tendency was to slam your levels hot so you maximized the signal to noise ratio. With 24 bit recordings, that's not a significant issue anymore, so I normally recommend recording so that your average levels are in the -15 to -18 dB range. Occasional peaks might exceed that, but that's where the meters should sit the majority of the time. If your DAW's meters don't have calibration marks, and you can't tell "where -18dB is", then I'd recommend setting your recording levels (by adjusting the levels on your microphone preamps) so that your levels sit, on average, right in the middle of their range. That way, you should get a nice, healthy signal level that isn't TOO hot to where you have to resort to trimming them down, or worse, lowering your channel faders, at mixing time. The reason you don't really want to have to lower those faders too much is due to their lower resolution at the low end of their travel or "throw". Look at the calibration marks on faders and you'll notice that when they're up near zero, a small movement of the faders will result in only a small increase or decrease in level... but as you move down near the "bottom" of the fader's throw, that same amount of physical movement will give you a much larger change in level. The faders are more precise near zero and less so as you go lower in level, making precise level adjustments much more difficult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Joe Gilder Posted July 7, 2009 Members Share Posted July 7, 2009 This makes me think of summing boxes. The screenshots I've seen of mixes done through some sort of analog summing (like a Dangerous DBox or 2Bus) show the faders almost all within a few dB of each other. There aren't drastic differences in volumes from track to track. A nice example of the headroom an analog buss gives you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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