Microphones for guitars

[BeanoBoy]

I have been using the old warhorse Shure SM 57 to record my low wattage amps. I've never been real happy with the sounds I obtain with the 57. Can anyone recommend other microphones that are guitar friendly? How's The Sennheiser E906? I record at home in my little studio. I don't blast away with high wattage amps. I like those sounds but prefer to crank small amps to capture them. Also like clean sweet tones. Thanks!

[witesol]

most mics in that range will be just sort of different, perhaps better if you like it. to really go a different direction try a ribbon or maybe a LD vocal mic if you have one.

 

i will say that if the 57 isn't quite handling it, then there could be other factors, like the player's technique(sorry), the guitar, pedals, tone settings and then the mic and what you do with it..

[BeanoBoy]

 

most mics in that range will be just sort of different , perhaps better if you like it. to really go a different direction try a ribbon or maybe a LD vocal mic if you have one. i will say that if the 57 isn't quite handling it, then there could be other factors, like the player's technique(sorry), the guitar, pedals, tone settings and then the mic and what you do with it..

 

Couldn't agree more. All those things figure in. I find though, I'll try capturing a certain tone with the SM 57 with different placement, different amp settings etc. to avail. I'll often switch to my 'vocal' mike, my M-audio Luna, and while it's not quite what I'd like, it sounds a lot better than the 57. Ideally, I'd like to capture what the amp sounds to my ears. If I feel my tone is happening and inspiring in the room, I want to capture THAT tone. My technique obviously contributes to the tone. In all modesty, I've been playing for MANY years, and Lord knows we all can improve in one or many ways, but I feel comfortable with my skills. Anybody else feel this way about the 57 and ARE there alternatives? What type (brand) ribbon or LD vocal mike?

[witesol]

perhaps the most difficult thing to capture is the tone you hear from the rig, which is quite complex to ones ears in a room. i go about it differently in that i don't care as much about how it sounds to my ear but how it sounds to the mic, and more importantly, on the monitors with the track..to my ears. if it sounds sort of wanky in the room i don't care. of course that's a generalization. most of the time it's pretty darn close. i also let more than some recordists maybe. ...in other words try a setup, perhaps a room mic or odd mic'ing and let that happen on the track, instead of forcing it into a preconceived tone. for example; 57 up close, Luna in the room. record and move the Luna until the phase seems good. that also gives you some spacial/panning possibilities later...which can be good for sparse tracks or single guitar track songs. Another aspect of how to track a tone you like is whether you play to the track on speakers, headphones, or maybe even live. I like to do most clean and mildly overdriven tones in the control room playing to the track with amp out in the room. if your monitoring situation is happening(meaning what you hear on your speakers translates to the outside world well) then you can be reasonably assured that if you've got a tone you like, however you got there, then it'll be working for you.

 

a zillion great tracks were done with 57s, i've been happy with it at least a half zillion. if somethings not happening i tend to mess with it first, trying all the above mentioned stuff...then grab a beyer m160 if i can't get it. Lately it's been a Heil pr30. if those don't work then it's not a mic issue.

 

I'm certain someone will mention preamps. sure, they do something to the sound as well, but anything of reasonable quality should do the job. i will add that a 57 can mate with some amp sounds and produce a fizzy, fuzzy thing with it's presence rise combined with a overdriven or distorted tone.

 

which brings up another issue, or perhaps personal opinion maybe. I mix well over a hundred acts live each year for the past several, and get in a bunch of sessions each year for the past 20 or so. Probably nowhere near what Phil might do so maybe he can chime in. My general opinion is that guitar players as a whole play way too bright and a lot of newer amps are way too brightly voiced and have too much pre distortion. Rant over. 57s don't work so well with bright amps.

[strings&things]

 

perhaps the most difficult thing to capture is the tone you here from the rig, which is quite complex to ones ears in a room.

 

 

+1

 

the 57 is a proven guitar amp mic ... and darn fine for the snare drum ...

[MetalJon]

 

I have been using the old warhorse Shure SM 57 to record my low wattage amps. I've never been real happy with the sounds I obtain with the 57. Can anyone recommend other microphones that are guitar friendly? How's The Sennheiser E906? I record at home in my little studio. I don't blast away with high wattage amps. I like those sounds but prefer to crank small amps to capture them. Also like clean sweet tones. Thanks!

 

The 57 is a good all-around mic. If you're looking to step up, I would suggest the Sennheiser MD421. Additionally, the Rode NT-1A is a decent choice if you're looking for a condenser. It's one of the few that can stand up to the SPLs of cab miking.

[scarecrowbob]

It is kind of odd, but lately, I've been having better luck if I get the speaker box up off the floor. Just something to try.

[UstadKhanAli]

If you can't get a great sound from a 57, I'd look into why that is first. The 57 has always given me a really good tone from a cabinet. I'd look into that first, really working to get the best sound possible from a 57. What kind of tones are you going for anyway? Distorted? Clean? What recorded guitar tones do you like?

 

As far as mics, a Heil PR30 is nice. I like 421s. I use a 57 or a PR30 or sometimes a 421 up close, and an LDC a few feet back. Perfect!!!!

[UstadKhanAli]

 

It is kind of odd, but lately, I've been having better luck if I get the speaker box up off the floor. Just something to try.

 

 

I almost always do this, decoupling it from the floor.

[Phil O'Keefe]

My first call, go to guitar cab mic these days is my Beyer M160 ribbon, but I agree with the points already mentioned - if it's a combo amp, get it up off the floor. Try different mic positions with the 57. Get the tone happening from the amp / guitar first before doing anything else, etc.

 

The Audix i5 and D2 also work well on guitar amps, as does the E/V RE20. 421's can be nice, Royers are cool, etc. etc.

 

There's a ton of viable choices out there IMO.

[BeanoBoy]

 

If you can't get a great sound from a 57, I'd look into why that is first. The 57 has always given me a really good tone from a cabinet. I'd look into that first, really working to get the best sound possible from a 57. What kind of tones are you going for anyway? Distorted? Clean? What recorded guitar tones do you like? As far as mics, a Heil PR30 is nice. I like 421s. I use a 57 or a PR30 or sometimes a 421 up close, and an LDC a few feet back. Perfect!!!!

 

 

I typically go for tones ranging from 60's Brit Blues overdriven tones to MerseyBeat jangle over to Nashville sparkle and squish. I don't mind having to have different mikes for different genres. Thanks to Witesol, I've been thinking of combining the 57 and Luna, you've reinforced my thinking. I already keep my combos off the floor. I don't play at bone crushing volumes so spl pressure isn't an issue. Thanks to Ustad and Phil for the mike recommendations and to everyone else for their interest and advice. No one expresses any opinions on the Sennheiser e906? Keep 'em coming! I'll keep trying new mike placement with the 57, as EVERYONE appears to have good results with it. Thanks

[UstadKhanAli]

I typically go for tones ranging from 60's Brit Blues overdriven tones to MerseyBeat jangle over to Nashville sparkle and squish. I don't mind having to have different mikes for different genres. Thanks to Witesol, I've been thinking of combining the 57 and Luna, you've reinforced my thinking. I already keep my combos off the floor. I don't play at bone crushing volumes so spl pressure isn't an issue. Thanks to Ustad and Phil for the mike recommendations and to everyone else for their interest and advice. No one expresses any opinions on the Sennheiser e906? Keep 'em coming! I'll keep trying new mike placement with the 57, as EVERYONE appears to have good results with it. Thanks

 

I really think you can get a good sound with a 57, especially if you have a nice preamp, that's why I keep saying that you should really try a lot of different variables first (amp, positioning, acoustic treatment, whatever) before purchasing another mic.

 

That said, using another mic, such as what you mention above, is amazing for getting deep, full-bodied guitar tones. I am not familiar with the Luna, but I'm sure it'll work great. I use a Lawson L251, sometimes putting it in omni, but you know, you use what you have, and although that's certainly a darn good choice, it ain't the only one, or necessarily the greatest one. I sometimes also use an AT4060 in cardioid. Here, I don't have a choice since it ONLY comes in cardioid!

 

I'm not familiar with the Sennheiser, so it might be a great choice, I don't know. I always feel like I can get a really good close-mic sound with almost any decent dynamic, as long as it's not too bright. I like the Heil PR30 for this, which reacts somewhat like a ribbon, so I'm told. I don't know, I don't have a ribbon. But a ribbon is a time-honored choice, a darn good one, and having recorded at Phil's, I can tell you that he gets a killer sound out of his ribbon.

[Lee Knight]

I've switched to a Fathead as my go to. I've used a Senn 609 and I like that. I've used a 57 and that's good. RE20 is nice, 414 and 87 can get that slightly distanced Stones thing... but the Fathead (which makes me want a Beyer) is my first choice right now.

 

What I like? It's lack of hash and fizz.

 

I like the fact that the fig 8 gets room along with direct. That is a lot of fun to play with in regards to distance. Closer = fatter and dryer. Farther back = leaner and more room. You can achieve optimized mojo with just those parameters. I find I don't get much closer than 6" to 8" now and usually more like a foot or more.

 

And it takes eq like a charm.

 

For room? You can't go wrong using a 2nd Fathead and using Gearmike's elongated M/S technique. I love that idea and have been using since he posted it.

[UstadKhanAli]

For clean guitar tones especially, I should try and experiment with the Lawson L251 in fig-8 a foot away. If nothing else, it might be for sheer laziness so I can set up one mic instead of two!!!

[Deeprig9]

My studio friend likes to mic amps as if they are a drumset. SM57 a foot away, and a room mic, he's also mic'd the back of the cab as well. What he does with those three or more signals is beyond me, but that's something else to think about when 'capturing the tone of the room'. So maybe you don't need 1 better mic, but more mic's in general.

[echoshock]

Since you mentioned the Senn 906, here is a song I just finished using one exclusively on electric. Its not a big part of the song but you can hear it on the electrics in the chorus. In other words, I like the mic.

Eganter Rebel 20 amp into a Deadroom II speaker isolation cab with a Celestion vintage.

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_songInfo.cfm?bandID=820863&songID=7991398

[WRGKMC]

Theres another trick for small openbacked amps that can improve the sound in some cases. Mic both the front and back of the cabinet. The back mic will be 180 degrees out of phase with the front so you will either have to use an XLR jumper that has the two center conductors reversed or use a phase reverse buttin in the DAW program to put the two signals in phase.

 

The results can be pretty decent. Small amps project alot of sound out the rear to make the amp sound bigger than they are. It can make for some nice stereo placement as well in a mix.

[Jimbroni]

Guitar tone is all about taste. Pick your poison. Lotsa people can live with and love the 57 sound (middy), me not so much.

 

I prefer the Re20 sound on guitar. Well rhythm guitar anyway.

 

Lead well that changes dramatically based on the sound the guitarist is going for. Sometimes dry and in your face, sometimes spacey and distant. You never know. But my personal fave is Re20 2" away, and a blumlein pair about 10 ft away up against a hardwood wall.

 

I would like to get a sennheiser e906, to have a different flavor in my arsenal. Many people dig that mike.

 

Well anyway, it also depends largely on the song and how many guitar parts are in it. If I have multiple parts then I tend to record the supporting parts thinner with one close dynamic. And then go for a larger than life tone with up to 3 mikes up the center.

 

You really have to ask yourself what you are looking for up front before making these decisions.

[BeanoBoy]

 

Since you mentioned the Senn 906, here is a song I just finished using one exclusively on electric. Its not a big part of the song but you can hear it on the electrics in the chorus. In other words, I like the mic. Eganter Rebel 20 amp into a Deadroom II speaker isolation cab with a Celestion vintage. http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_songInfo.cfm?bandID=820863&songID=7991398

 

 

Nice piece of music. The Sennheiser sounds pretty good. Interesting you're using the Rebel 20 for it's clean tone and a fine one at that.

[D Charles]

I've started using a beta 57 a lot for guitar amps. The 57 is cool, but the beta version is close but more hi fi, more hi end in a sweet way. Got a ribbon this summer and definitely gonna have to try that out in the room a bit.

[mistersully]

what preamp are you using?

[BeanoBoy]

 

what preamp are you using?

 

 

I run my mic through my Line 6 Toneport with the Gearbox software. I use whatever 'virtual' console sounds good (to my ears) for the particular track. With further use of my SM 57 I find it's fine for clean tones, it's the overdriven tones that sound fizzy. Once again the tone I physically hear from the amp is pleasing, it inspires me to play, the tone through the 57 sounds unpleasant. Any mics that are better suited for overdriven tones? I don't use a lot of gain. I've cut back on the treble setting. I like the Bluesbreaker tone from Garageband more than any of the overdriven amp tones (Vox AD15 & Fender Vibro champ XD) that I've gotten from micing, but I'd really like a true tube overdriven tone. Once again, the sound of the amp in the room is VASTLY different from the mic'd tone.

[echoshock]

Nice piece of music. The Sennheiser sounds pretty good. Interesting you're using the Rebel 20 for it's clean tone and a fine one at that.

Thanks! yea I use the rebel for its clean and all distored tones because.....well its the only amp I have.

I like to keep the studio as small as possible and sell whatever is not being used.

[UstadKhanAli]

[quote=echoshock;36613828

I like to keep the studio as small as possible and sell whatever is not being used.

 

You sound smart.

 

I want to do this but don't always succeed.

[MrJoshua]

 

The 57 is a good all-around mic. If you're looking to step up, I would suggest the Sennheiser MD421. Additionally, the Rode NT-1A is a decent choice if you're looking for a condenser. It's one of the few that can stand up to the SPLs of cab miking.

 

 

I'd use a 57 on a guitar cab instead of an NT-1A just about any day of the week. It might be alright for some clean stuff, but to my ears the NT-1A has a fairly brittle top end that doesn't sound very good with an electric guitar at all.

 

I'm a fan of ribbon mics on guitar cabs, but I probably go about 50% ribbons (normally a ShinyBox 46MXC) and 50% SM-57.

 

The 421 is another good choice, though. Really, if you can't get a good tone with a 57 or a 421, the problem isn't the mic. Work with positioning, change your guitar tone, whatever, but a 57 in good condition is perfectly capable of capturing a quality guitar sound.