If you could only have one 2 channel preamp , what would it be?

[Norton666]

I want to get a very good 2 channel preamp. Im not looking for a cheap " itll do" preamp , I want a preamp that I wont ever want to upgrade from. Ive got a couple of the Presonus Studio Channels right now and they work ok , but they lack the warmth that Im after. My eyes keep coming back to the UA 2-610. What would you choose?

[Kerouac]

Honestly, I've been super pleased with the pres in my Apogee Duet... they're very clean so if you need more character you'd need to find a way to {censored} it up a bit... but a nice clean source is IMO never a bad place to start with.

[betamatt]

Won't ever want to upgrade from? Well, when you say that, I ignore dollar signs and I say a couple of APIs (more reasonable) or a couple of 1073s (originals are ridiculously priced, but there are a lot of nice recreations). When you're in a room full of high-end pres, it's nice to be able to change among a bunch of different flavors, but if it's your only pair of pres of that caliber, trust me, neither of those options will ever suck. There are plenty of fabulous sounding records that were cut entirely with the board pres on a vintage API or Neve with no worry about color.

 

I've had folks bring in ODs done with Duet, and it sounded nice, but if you're talking about never upgrading I wouldn't buy a pair of mic pres built into a computer interface.

 

Edit: if you really want to have options, maybe a 500-series lunchbox - then you could do a pair of either BAE 312A (API-style) or Avedis MA5 (Neve-style) modules now - and then later do the others, or some other flavor entirely.

[Kerouac]

 

Won't ever want to upgrade from? Well, when you say that, I ignore dollar signs and I say a couple of APIs (more reasonable) or a couple of 1073s (originals are ridiculously priced, but there are a lot of nice recreations). When you're in a room full of high-end pres, it's nice to be able to change among a bunch of different flavors, but if it's your only pair of pres of that caliber, trust me, neither of those options will ever suck. There are plenty of fabulous sounding records that were cut entirely with the board pres on a vintage API or Neve with no worry about color. I've had folks bring in ODs done with Duet, and it sounded nice, but if you're talking about never upgrading I wouldn't buy a pair of mic pres built into a computer interface. Edit: if you really want to have options, maybe a 500-series lunchbox - then you could do a pair of either BAE 312A (API-style) or Avedis MA5 (Neve-style) modules now - and then later do the others, or some other flavor entirely.

 

 

Again, for a nice clean tone a Duet is perfect. If I need more of a coloured character then I can just flip it over in the software and connect those pres to it and bypass it's own pres. IMO, spending thousands of dollars on a purely transparent preamp is insane. Again, I'm not saying he should go that route, but a pair of really clean preamps is most important to me and at that price point it's an amazing deal.

[betamatt]

Well, the preamps I recommended are not ones I would define as the clean, transparent-type. They're the "never need to upgrade" type. And investing thousands in them (which the OP is considering doing with a 2-610) is not that crazy when you consider you could use them for the next few decades with very few issues (plus, the 500-series modules I recommended are, to me, a great quality/price buy). The Duet, while affordable and decent-sounding, is a piece of computer hardware and will not have much use 20 years from now, or much resale value 5 years from now. But if you use it a crapload in the next 5 years it was more than worth the investment, no doubt. So it's just a different approach to how you want to spend your money.

[Warhead]

I find the Phoenix Audio DRS series to be an excellent mix of high gain, detail and character (which can be pushed for nice harmonic content). The transformerless input and transformer output are sort of the best of both worlds, an even split between clean detail and character.

 

No matter how long I thought about it, they would at least be near if not at the top of the list.

 

War

[UstadKhanAli]

 

I want to get a very good 2 channel preamp. Im not looking for a cheap " itll do" preamp , I want a preamp that I wont ever want to upgrade from. Ive got a couple of the Presonus Studio Channels right now and they work ok , but they lack the warmth that Im after. My eyes keep coming back to the UA 2-610. What would you choose?

 

 

I suppose it depends on what you are looking for from a mic preamp and what kind of music and musical instruments or sources you are recording.

 

I record mostly rock, folk, experimental, and psychedelic music. Out of the mic preamps I own, I would definitely keep the Neve Portico. Why? Because it sounds great AND it's flexible. I engage the silk button, and I have warmth and girth and juicy harmonic distortion. I disengage the silk button, and it's clean and relatively uncolored. It also has a very usable HPF which is adjustable between 20Hz-250Hz. I mention this primarily because I own it, and there might be others that have these qualities but are better, I don't know. Warhead, for instance, mentions the Phoenix.

 

If not this, then I would look for a mic preamp that had similar qualities, something that was flexible in terms of sounds and could accommodate a fair amount of microphones, genres, and situations.

 

(my other mic preamps are two RNPs, a Peavey VMP-2, and some Mackie mic preamps on a mini-mixer).

[Phil O'Keefe]

I want to get a very good 2 channel preamp. Im not looking for a cheap " itll do" preamp , I want a preamp that I wont ever want to upgrade from. Ive got a couple of the Presonus Studio Channels right now and they work ok , but they lack the warmth that Im after. My eyes keep coming back to the UA 2-610. What would you choose?

 

Obviously, you're looking for good multi-purpose mic preamps, but if there's a specific list of tasks you'll be using them for more often than others, it would probably help for us to know what those are.

[Norton666]

Honestly,

I always find myself thinking my tracks lack a certain "warmth". It seems to me that I always feel like they are a bit fragile sounding, especially in the mid/low mids. I always find myself trying to figure out ways to get a lead vocal track to blanket the mix rather than sound like its just notched in there somewhere.

This may sound neurotic , but if I visualize my mixes , I feel like I am looking at them and they are arranged vertically like a bookshelf and everything just has its place. I want them to sound like a cake! With layers going horizontally with the vocals being the icing and covering the whole mix.

That probably sounds ridiculous , but I just want something that will warm up snare drums , guitar tracks and vocals. Most sessions Ive been doing , all of that stuff is overdubbed , so a 2 channel preamp should be able to get the job done.

[Kendrix]

 

Honestly, I always find myself thinking my tracks lack a certain "warmth". It seems to me that I always feel like they are a bit fragile sounding, especially in the mid/low mids. I always find myself trying to figure out ways to get a lead vocal track to blanket the mix rather than sound like its just notched in there somewhere. This may sound neurotic , but if I visualize my mixes , I feel like I am looking at them and they are arranged vertically like a bookshelf and everything just has its place. I want them to sound like a cake! With layers going horizontally with the vocals being the icing and covering the whole mix. That probably sounds ridiculous , but I just want something that will warm up snare drums , guitar tracks and vocals. Most sessions Ive been doing , all of that stuff is overdubbed , so a 2 channel preamp should be able to get the job done.

 

 

Regarding lack of low-mid warmth-- I know exactly what you mean.

In my case this wasnt solved by preamp alone.

I have a Great River. It gives good warmth as a pre.

However, it wasn't until I started using some great EQ/comp plugs (From UA) that the warmth really came out in the final mix.

I think this has mainly to do with the absence or presence of transformers in the " console" either or real or ITB modeled.

YMMV

[UstadKhanAli]

That "lack of warmth" you are describing could be a plethora of things, all the way from the source material to choice of mics, mic placement, mic preamps, poor A/D converters, or choice of EQ boosts/cuts. Often, it's a combination of items, but any one of these alone could be the culprit.

[Kendrix]

 

That "lack of warmth" you are describing could be a plethora of things, all the way from the source material to choice of mics, mic placement, mic preamps, poor A/D converters, or choice of EQ boosts/cuts. Often, it's a combination of items, but any one of these alone could be the culprit.

 

 

I agree.

However, even after getting all the above right I still felt the lack of warmth and depth. To a casual listener it wasn't bad at all... but it wasnt quite "right" to a good ear/critical listener.

No EQ ing could get a naturally full sound with a smooth top.

 

Using the same files and DAW, tracked with a very good mic and pre (U195, Great River) I found that I also needed the right plugs to get me there.

I remixed a few songs in which all I did was replace the EQ/Comp plugs in use.

The original ones weren't cheapo items and are generally well thought of.

 

This was eye opening to me.

 

The low mids were more present and the top was not at all harsh or digital sounding. Bingo.

 

I can't wait to do some new stuff.

[UstadKhanAli]

So you think most of it can be attributed to inferior EQs?

 

This is something I had to wrestle with a little bit with the Akai MG1214 EQs, which were definitely not warm. I had to really nail it when tracking, and then use the EQs primarily to cut. Difficult, although it taught me a lot about tracking!

[Kendrix]

So you think most of it can be attributed to inferior EQs? This is something I had to wrestle with a little bit with the Akai MG1214 EQs, which were definitely not warm. I had to really nail it when tracking, and then use the EQs primarily to cut. Difficult, although it taught me a lot about tracking!

 

 

From my recent observations it seems that, regardless of the quality of the input chain, things benefit significantly from having a tranny-like element in the mixing chain.

It adds the desired mojo- depth, warmth (without boominess) and smooth highs.

This is what some folks pursue via analog summing boxes.

[Norton666]

Im surprised more tube preamps arent being mentioned. I guess I never even considered anything that wasnt a tube preamp. Also , no one has mentioned my original idea of the UA 2-610, is this a bad choice?

[MrJoshua]

I haven't used the UA, but if you want a decent tube preamp that won't break the bank check out Groove Tubes. I have their Brick and SuPRE units, and they're both very solid.

 

But if you're just looking for a good two-channel preamp you won't outgrow, there are tons of options out there ranging from the FMR RNP (inexpensive, but in no way does it sound cheap) to units from the aforementioned Groove Tubes, Great River, API, Neve... and they all sound good. Different, sure, but good. Personally, unless you're cutting gold records, I'd probably start with the RNP and then start putting money into room treatment and microphones before spending a ton of money on preamps. A good preamp can make a difference, but a great mic into a decent preamp is a lot better than a decent mic into a great pre.

[UstadKhanAli]

I love the RNP. I own two of them and love them. Very usable, open sound that belies their cost (and ugly looks...the cool stuff is all under the hood).

[UstadKhanAli]

Im surprised more tube preamps arent being mentioned. I guess I never even considered anything that wasnt a tube preamp. Also , no one has mentioned my original idea of the UA 2-610, is this a bad choice?

 

I like tube mic preamps a lot, but didn't mention them because, as the subject header asks, if I could only have one two channel mic preamp, I'd want to choose something that had more flexibility. There are mic preamps out there in which the user can choose between a more "tube" sort of sound or a more "solid-state" sort of sound. However, I am not familiar with them, so I didn't mention them, but those would certainly be great to consider!!!! Something like the ViPre mic preamp (I think I spelled that correctly...) would also be something to consider.

 

I use the Peavey VMP-2, and have owned it for over ten years and love it. I've had quite a number of offers over the years to buy it from me. But no, that's not leaving my studio, even if someone were to give me a rack of APIs and Neves and Great Rivers.

 

By the way, there's only something like two more shopping weeks until my birthday.

[witesol]

budget?

[Kendrix]

I like tube mic preamps a lot, but didn't mention them because, as the subject header asks, if I could only have one two channel mic preamp, I'd want to choose something that had more flexibility. There are mic preamps out there in which the user can choose between a more "tube" sort of sound or a more "solid-state" sort of sound. However, I am not familiar with them, so I didn't mention them, but those would certainly be great to consider!!!! Something like the ViPre mic preamp (I think I spelled that correctly...) would also be something to consider. I use the Peavey VMP-2, and have owned it for over ten years and love it. I've had quite a number of offers over the years to buy it from me. But no, that's not leaving my studio, even if someone were to give me a rack of APIs and Neves and Great Rivers. By the way, there's only something like two more shopping weeks until my birthday.

 

I had my eyes on the Peavey VMP-2 back in the nineties.

When I finally got around to spending money on a better outboard pre it was just a matter of a few months too late.

Suddenly, I could not find one anywhere.

 

Ken, is that MY pre you have there?

 

It was unique at the time in being a good quality tube pre at a prosumer price. It seemed that Peavey got out of the business just when the prosumer market started to take off. Too Bad.

[UstadKhanAli]

I had my eyes on the Peavey VMP-2 back in the nineties. When I finally got around to spending money on a better outboard pre it was just a matter of a few months too late. Suddenly, I could not find one anywhere. Ken, is that MY pre you have there?

 

Maybe they sold it to the wrong Ken!

 

It was unique at the time in being a good quality tube pre at a prosumer price. It seemed that Peavey got out of the business just when the prosumer market started to take off. Too Bad.

 

Someone like EQ or Mix or Pro Sound News or Recording did a review of it in which they raved about the sound, and took it apart and said that they couldn't figure out how they could sell it for this price because the construction and innards were so nicely done and had such high quality components that they couldn't figure out how they were making a profit. Shortly after that, Peavey discontinued the mic preamp!

 

Anyway, I love the thing. i bought it used from rec.audio.pro for US$600, and believe me, it was worth every single penny. I love it.

 

There was a huge run on the things when people found out it was discontinued, and now, from what others mention to me, they're really hard to find!!!!

[Majoria]

 

I want to get a very good 2 channel preamp. Im not looking for a cheap " itll do" preamp , I want a preamp that I wont ever want to upgrade from. Ive got a couple of the Presonus Studio Channels right now and they work ok , but they lack the warmth that Im after. My eyes keep coming back to the UA 2-610. What would you choose?

 

 

I keep using my API A2D, though it's both pres and converters. Sounds good enough for me.

[Meriphew]

Two of these:

API 312/512

Neve 1084/1073

 

Or:

Great River MP-2NV

Chandler TG2

[Zooey]

I went with a clean pre for my first big 2-channel investment. It's a Buzz MA2.2 that I bought back when the dollar was strong, and Buzz was still selling direct. It's unparalleled on many sources, and bad on none. IMO, you get more bang for your buck if you start with a cleanish pre and let that soak in for a while. Then when you add a "flavor" pre, you're in a better position to hear exactly what it's doing and make an informed choice. If I were to do it all over on a budget, I'd start with a RNP or a Sytek.

[Zooey]

 

I've had folks bring in ODs done with Duet, and it sounded nice, but if you're talking about never upgrading I wouldn't buy a pair of mic pres built into a computer interface.

 

 

Is the Duet buss-powered? That would give me some pause because even the most clever engineers on the planet are going to make some compromises to stay within available voltage limits. I'm sure Apogee put as much of their "secret sauce" into the design as possible, but price points and laws of physics would differentiate the Duet from other Apogee products.