Members mr.rob Posted August 8, 2005 Members Share Posted August 8, 2005 Does musicianship play any role in popular music? Or does it just get in the way of collecting royalty checks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Artur Meinild Posted August 8, 2005 Members Share Posted August 8, 2005 Good question... Well, I see it as one of MY tasks, as a working musician, to create music well dependent on high musicianship. Of course that will not change the way of MTV music and such, but I guess it's the only thing to do - make things better yourself! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members boosh Posted August 8, 2005 Members Share Posted August 8, 2005 Define musicianship...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Duck King Posted August 8, 2005 Members Share Posted August 8, 2005 Originally posted by Artur Meinild Good question... Well, I see it as one of MY tasks, as a working musician, to create music well dependent on high musicianship. Of course that will not change the way of MTV music and such, but I guess it's the only thing to do - make things better yourself! Thanks for taking that responsibliity. Now I can get back to writing songs that chicks like, which is the real reason for rock and roll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ZenFly Posted August 8, 2005 Members Share Posted August 8, 2005 Originally posted by mr.rob Does musicianship play any role in popular music? Or does it just get in the way of collecting royalty checks? Musicianship is alive and well..you can see it on Austin City Limits and on occasion "Soundstage". It won't die, but it may appear asleep at times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Brittanylips Posted August 8, 2005 Members Share Posted August 8, 2005 Quit bashing! Everyone always says that everything is always going to hell. But it's not! "Digital sucks, music sucks, popular music sucks, loudness sucks, everything sucks..." But it doesn't! There's tons of talent, tons of great recordings, lots of good stuff all around. -Peace, Love, and Brittanylips Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Artur Meinild Posted August 8, 2005 Members Share Posted August 8, 2005 Now I can get back to writing songs that chicks like, which is the real reason for rock and roll. Hehe Unfortunately, lot's of people DO think this way... Of course I'm sure that most people here don't... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Steve LeBlanc Posted August 8, 2005 Members Share Posted August 8, 2005 Originally posted by Brittanylips Quit bashing!Everyone always says that everything is always going to hell.But it's not!"Digital sucks, music sucks, popular music sucks, loudness sucks, everything sucks..."But it doesn't! There's tons of talent, tons of great recordings, lots of good stuff all around.-Peace, Love, and Brittanylips can we criticize the consumers of music? 'cause certainly their ability to distinguish between musical and not has waned over the years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted August 8, 2005 Members Share Posted August 8, 2005 Originally posted by Steve LeBlanc can we criticize the consumers of music? 'cause certainly their ability to distinguish between musical and not has waned over the years Damn straight. Back when I was a kid, we were snapping up real pop music treasures like this deathless classic: It was an itsy bitsy teenie weenie yellow polka-dot bikiniThat she wore for the first time today.An itsy bitsy teentie weenie yellow polka-dot bikini So in the locker she wanted to stay.Two, three, four, stick around we'll tell you more... And, going back to my ol' man's day, I can just imagine him sitting around in a bar with his fellow GI's just returned from WWII, throwing back scotch and waters and singing "The Whiffinpoof Song"... We're poor little lambs who have lost our wayBaa, baa, baaWe're little black sheep who have gone astrayBaa, baa, baa... ____________________ Of course, those are just lyrics, but you get the drift. (Now, "Little Nash Rambler," OTOH, had some hot playing... those speedups must have been hell to get right.) But, yeah, I think it is reasonable to worry about changing standards of musicianship and shifting baselines of "professional knowledge." Just a couple days ago, someone at Gearslutz posted a request for advice because he wanted to Autotune the vocal on a track but neither he (presumably the producer/engineer) or the singer knew what key the song was in... Thats's why I come to these places. You can't get comedy like that on TV or at the movies... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tedster Posted August 8, 2005 Members Share Posted August 8, 2005 To add my two cents, both Artur and Duck are correct. The purpose of music is to evoke an emotional response on some level, and whether the means is a Haydn cello concerto played by someone with years and years of classical training, possibly allowing the listener to drift off into some distant sunset, or a phat phunk groove laid down my a bass player that elicits bootay-shaking, it's all music...and just like food, there's no "proper" way to enjoy it. You either like it (a given piece) or you don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Anderton Posted August 8, 2005 Members Share Posted August 8, 2005 Actually, sometimes I think musicianship does get in the way. We've all seen technically proficient people who feel they have to squeeze as much technique into every measure as possible. Then there are guitarists like Jeff Beck, who can play the hell out of a guitar, but truly show off their mastery when they play simple lines that absolutely drip with emotion. You could have a lot less technique than Jeff Beck and still be able to play the lines he plays -- if you had the finesse and tone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Electric Catfish Posted August 8, 2005 Members Share Posted August 8, 2005 Originally posted by Anderton Actually, sometimes I think musicianship does get in the way. We've all seen technically proficient people who feel they have to squeeze as much technique into every measure as possible. That is the very ANTITHESIS of musicianship. It's not musicianship getting in the way there, it's somebody who has no taste overplaying, which is poor musicianship to start with. Insecurities which make one have to prove their level of technique every bar of every song get in the way of good musicianship. George Harrison, for example, was the consumate musician. Technique != musicianship. A lot of folks around here can't quite get that. It's not what you play, but knowing what to leave out. Anything else is bad musicianship. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BEAD Posted August 8, 2005 Members Share Posted August 8, 2005 *cough*dreamtheater*cough* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sylver Posted August 8, 2005 Members Share Posted August 8, 2005 The real question, is what happened to the Freedom Ship? I think it was just a scam to get my money. Damn! I had a portside cabin, too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Red Winger Posted August 8, 2005 Members Share Posted August 8, 2005 Originally posted by Anderton Then there are guitarists like Jeff Beck, who can play the hell out of a guitar, but truly show off their mastery when they play simple lines that absolutely drip with emotion. You could have a lot less technique than Jeff Beck and still be able to play the lines he plays -- if you had the finesse and tone. I still love his "People Get Ready" duet with Rod Stewart. What a great piece. Exquisite phrasing and sense of melody. In my mind, the mark of a true musician is a person that plays just what's needed (no more, no less) to bring the song to its best eemotional level so that it connects and makes you want to hear the song again and again. Sometimes that may be playing fast and furious, other times its hanging long and slow on simple line or even just comping behind a fellow musician. But I agree with BLips that there's a ton of great musicianship in today's music, if you give it listen. Not all of today's music, of course, but it's still there. --Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jotown Posted August 9, 2005 Members Share Posted August 9, 2005 Pop music for the most part has always been about the lowest common denominator. Every now and then something that is musically good also becomes popular. Big band in the 40's, some the very musical and sophisticated music of the 60's. Pop is about popularity; that is why it's called pop. Pop music is ear candy and aural fashion; nothing more. There are great musicians out there right now making great music that most of us will never hear on the radio. Same as it ever was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members coyote-1 Posted August 9, 2005 Members Share Posted August 9, 2005 The ability to do more than thrash around on a dropped-D. Originally posted by boosh Define musicianship...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jackcheez Posted August 9, 2005 Members Share Posted August 9, 2005 Define musicianship...... There are many opinions. Mine is the Zen. Do what the song wants you to do rather than imposing your will on the song. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lazaraga Posted August 9, 2005 Members Share Posted August 9, 2005 fell through the digital cracks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Spencer Crewe Posted August 9, 2005 Members Share Posted August 9, 2005 Musicianship started to tank right about the same time PT (or another DAW) and Autotune became ludicrously popular, IMHO. Cheers!Spencer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jackcheez Posted August 9, 2005 Members Share Posted August 9, 2005 Musicianship started to tank right about the same time PT (or another DAW) and Autotune became ludicrously popular, IMHO. I'll bet people said the same thing when recording was invented. "My God, you can do another take if you make a mistake !" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tedster Posted August 9, 2005 Members Share Posted August 9, 2005 Originally posted by jackcheez There are many opinions. Mine is the Zen. Do what the song wants you to do rather than imposing your will on the song. You have spoken wisely... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 I really like your sig line Electric Catfish: "Everybody is expending all this energy in various ways to get the same old feeling out of it that Little Richard can get in five minutes. And people are finally waking up to the fact that you can get as much of a good feeling out of a simple thing as you can out of something that's hard. A lot of people who would have you believe they are intelligent musicians are playing bull{censored}. Music's become so intellectualized. Man, music is FUN. It's not supposed to be any heavy, deep intense thing - especially not rock music, man. That's to set you free! Anybody that ever listened to Chuck Berry or any of them cats knows that. Rock is like a newspaper for people that can't read. Rock and roll will tell you where everything is at. It's something to move your feet and move your heart and make you feel good inside. You know, forget about all the bull{censored} that's going on for a while, fill up some of the dead spaces."-Duane Allman Good stuff from a great musician! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Steve LeBlanc Posted August 9, 2005 Members Share Posted August 9, 2005 no offense but this thread is proving my point....in otherwords, it's not about how many notes or how much practice the music takes to play...it's about "Knowing" music vs. "thinking you know" music...too tough to explain on an internet forum really, more something you have to show someone I've been listening to a Bird anthology recently...the average person today is confused by Bebop...in the late 40s-50s it was packing clubs besides that point...pop/rock of the 60s/70s, no matter how dumbed down the subject matter was played with a lot of taste by some great musicians, for the most part...it had dynamics, feel, surprises, etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Anderton Posted August 9, 2005 Members Share Posted August 9, 2005 I think a lot of the loss of "feel" may not be as much about musicianship as about the way recording works. A few decades ago, people honed their act on the road in front of audiences, working out the kinks, getting feedback, getting jazzed by the performance. Then the task was to capture that vibe in the studio...not easy to do, but when it worked, the results were magical. When people started writing in the studio then tried to duplicate the studio sound live, I think that's when things started to hit a snag. The task then became to duplicate what already existed, rather than create a record or something that had evolved over time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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