How exactly were 70's CBS Fenders horrible?

[Anonymous Guy]

I keep hearing users downplaying these guitars, but never any specifics as to why.

 

Was it cost cutting? The switch from four to three bolts? The god awful headstock? Did they feel cheaper/have an inconsistent build? Or was it simply vintage owners touting how much better older instruments were?

 

Any insight from the people that own these wonderful instruments?

[HeatherAnnePeel]

I had a '72 Standard Tele in 1979-80 that I got for $225 (wish I still had it now!). It was a great CBS-era Tele. Actually, I PREFER the '70s CBS Fenders. I presently have in my collection a '72 Tele Deluxe RI, a '72 Tele Custom RI and an '88 Pink Paisley Strat RI, which are all recreations of CBS era Fenders. Sure, there were some duds, but everyone I have played has been great. Here's a couple of my RIs:

 

 

[Blackbelt1]

I had a '79 Strat for 25 years; I paid $400 for it new, and traded it straight-up for a new Gretsch DSW last year. I liked it a lot - it was a solid guitar with a great feel to it. But as Strats go, mine was a hardtail and I gots to have me some of that trem action.

 

 

~Blackbelt

[sgt mukuzi]

the 70`s strat i owned had a huge neck pocket and a small neck, a previuos owner put a few pick in the gap, it was huge! the clay dots wernt even straight, it sucked!

[Oldskool Texas]

Some of the complaints were that the 3-hole neck plate wasn't very stable, and that the tilt-neck was just plain ill-conceived. The bullet truss seemed like a solution to a problem no one was having, and the large Strat headstock and boldface decals were just ugly. (I'm not saying I agree with any of these, but that's what I've heard most often). Lots of people also claim that CBS was buying wood based on price alone, rather than for other musical considerations, and that the 70s instruments were therefore needlessly heavy.

 

 

To me, when they screwed up the body shape of the Tele by flattening out the bass-side top curve, it just showed laziness and a lack of respect for Leo's design on the part of CBS.

 

But mostly, I think people simply resented that Fender went from a small cottage-industry factory that produced a couple hundred guitars a week to a faceless corporate entity that was churning them out by the thousands, and that CBS had little interest in anything but the bottom line, being an entertainment/broadcasting concern more than a musical instrument company. That resentment translated into a general criticism of the instruments they made, some of which may have been undeserved.

[yz250f49]

Would this be a fair comparison?

 

CBS/Fender = AMF/Harley-Davidson ??

[aenemated]

i dont think fender was on the verge of going bankrupt while cbs-owned, like harley was towards the end of the amf years.

[yz250f49]

True, but I was thinking more of the quality issues.

[Runn3r]

 

Some of the complaints were that the 3-hole neck plate wasn't very stable, and that the tilt-neck was just plain ill-conceived. The bullet truss seemed like a solution to a problem no one was having, and the large Strat headstock and boldface decals were just ugly. (I'm not saying I agree with any of these, but that's what I've heard most often). Lots of people also claim that CBS was buying wood based on price alone, rather than for other musical considerations, and that the 70s instruments were therefore needlessly heavy. To me, when they screwed up the body shape of the Tele by flattening out the bass-side top curve, it just showed laziness and a lack of respect for Leo's design on the part of CBS. But mostly, I think people simply resented that Fender went from a small cottage-industry factory that produced a couple hundred guitars a week to a faceless corporate entity that was churning them out by the thousands, and that CBS had little interest in anything but the bottom line, being an entertainment/broadcasting concern more than a musical instrument company. That resentment translated into a general criticism of the instruments they made, some of which may have been undeserved.

 

 

:thu:right on the money imo:thu:

[Busk]

I love my 79 hardtail, but it's heavy. Amazing pups, comfy neck and there are no pocket issues whatsoever.

[nevermind]

My '79 25th Anniversary strat is great. Easily 1 of the 2 best strat I've owned. It is a little on the heavy side, but otherwise perfect.

[kurtisqpublic]

I have an early 70s strat. Never any issue with the 3 bolt neck. I like the headstock and the guitar has incredibly nice low easily played action and sounds awesome.

[DaveAronow]

70s Strat headstock=my favorite

[guitar-fish]

Fender absolutely was close to being gone. I've read a few different books about Fender, and I think it's Tom Wheeler's book that mentions that there almost wasn't a Fender anymore. CBS was having trouble finding a buyer and was on the verge of closing up the place, when some of the employees were able to put together the funds to buy it. They actually only bought the name, and some of the equipment. They had to go find their own building!

 

First, the CBS types were from the northeast, came in with their Harvard degrees, and started making all kinds of changes purely based on cost. They started changing materials that screwed up the tone, such as pickup wire. Leo spent countless hours finding "the best", and these morons came in and started arbitrarily changing things, as if there'd be no difference.

 

They changed the Strat trem to a different design because it would be cheaper to make, and it sounded awful. The 3 bolt neck was not bad in principle, but sloppily executed.

 

There's a story about a pile of guitars lined up that failed QC and were to be either refinished, or destroyed. A couple hours later, the whole pile was gone. Where were they? Somebody packed 'em up and shipped them.

 

A blonde finished Strat was on the rack at a music store, a customer was giving it a look over. Under the blonde finish, bleeding through, was some writing in marker, "failed" or something similar.

 

CBS did a lot to get the vintage market going and drive the prices of pre-CBS stuff higher. Thankfully smarter people eventually bought the company and righted the ship.

 

Today's American Series Strats are some truly fine instruments.

[Tweedledee]

I have a '77 Tele and other than it being a bit on the heavy side, and the tuners feeling a bit cheap, there really isn't anything that would justify the blanket negative assessments of 70s Fenders that most people like to advance. I love it and don't ever plan on getting rid of it.

 

[Treborklow]

One of the problems the 70's 3-bolt necks had was that the neck slot in the body was cut too large on some guitars. SOME GUITARS... not all. I personally have one that the neck slot is tighter than OJ's glove. Anyway, some of the bad ones gave the whole decade a bad rap. The 3-bolt neck was proven to be just as secure as the 4-bolt, but if the neck slot was too large, the neck would move and that would happen with a 4-bolt as well.

[bloolight]

My understanding is that the beef with CBS Fenders came from:

-Cosmetic changes that pleased some and annoyed others.

-Material changes that pleased a very few and annoyed most (ie,

heavier wood for bodies)

-A significant increase in quality-control issues at the factory which

pleased almost nobody.

 

 

That's all from the reading I've done on the issue, which I've always found fascinating. I've never played a Fender from that era. I'm sure there are many good specimens out there, but the number of duds during the CBS years seems to have been unusually high. I also happen to hate the cosmetic changes...I'm all about the small headstocks and four-bolt necks.

[Anonymous Guy]

Thanks for all the commentary, guys.

[bardsley]

All the fenders I've played from the 70s were significantly worse made than current production mexican models. Huge neck pockets, bad trem design, plus things like sharp neck to fretboard edges, which are these days usually rounded off in a much nicer way.

 

Having said that, some of the sounded terrific. While I may, if I had tons of money, buy a 60s fender partly due to "vintage vibe", I would only buy a 70s one if that particular guitar sounded noticeably better than a current production model. You should probably do that in the case of the 60s ones too, but obviously people aren't buying them just for their tone.

[littlemilo]

I like the amps they made.

 

[ermghoti II]

I had a '79 Strat for 25 years; I paid $400 for it new, and traded it straight-up for a new Gretsch DSW last year. I liked it a lot - it was a solid guitar with a great feel to it. But as Strats go, mine was a hardtail and I gots to have me some of that trem action. ~Blackbelt

 

What's that finish, enemaburst?

[dcindc]

They're usually heavy.

I had a 76 Tele, and any of my other current cheap asian Teles kicks its butt.

Thankfully it said Fender on the headstock, and I was able to get out of it.

[littlemilo]

 

Here are pics of that '72 Tele pickup with the "cardboard" base I mentioned earlier. Actually it's not a bad sounding pickup, but there are many other models on the market now that I prefer.

 

In the early 70's we talked about how the early Strats ('63 and before) were the "real deal". Mid to late 60's weren't sought after at all. Who knew what they would sell for now.

[foppy]

 

What's that finish, enemaburst?

 

 

Antigua I believe. When I was a kid, I thought it was the coolest-looking thing I'd ever seen.

 

Me liking it was bad taste then, but it's good taste now.

[andrew_face]

im also a huge fan of the big headstock