Can you guys tell me about solid state and tube rectifiers?

[elsupermanny14]

So I'm curious what all the differences and characteristics are between SS and tube rectifiers. In my experience I've foundt that a Single rectifier by Mesa has much more growl and beef than a Marshall JCM200. My guess is this is because of the tube rectifier. At the same time I don't want to attribute that to be the only difference in their sound because they are two completely different amps.

 

But then again the Mesa Dual rectifier is crazy and the Tripple is more growl, overdrive, and thump than anyone needs. I also know they each one of these amps comes with more and more tubs so that contributes to the increase in output.

 

But yeah if you guys can help me out and tell me about the differences and characteristics about SS and tube rectifiers I would greatly appreciate it!

[Brick]

the single recto has a SS rectifier. The dual and triple have tube rectifiers, and more sag from teh 5u4 toobs, its for teh brootlz, but alot of tube amps have SS rectifiers, alot of it is preferance

[Wyatt]

The main difference is the attack on the note.

 

Sag.

 

Tube rectifiers are very inefficient. When more power is demanded from them, they can't supply it fast enough and there is a momentary drop in voltage until they can catch up. This adds "sag." When you pick a note, the output will drop a little and then ramp back up (what many people refer to when they say the note "blooms"). This is very popular with blues artists, it gives a more laid-back, mellow beginning of a note that doesn't hit too hard at first.

 

SS rectifiers supply voltage on demand with no sag. When you pick the note, you hear the "snap" -- the fast, immediate attack on note and it's driven home right away. Rock, hard rock, metal players often want this extra kick.

 

Actual "beefiness" is independent of these, that's purely preamp and poweramp design.

[elsupermanny14]

 

the single recto has a SS rectifier. The dual and triple have tube rectifiers, and more sag from teh 5u4 toobs, its for teh brootlz, but alot of tube amps have SS rectifiers, alot of it is preferance

 

 

wow you're right...I didn't know that. I looked it up on their website and am now slightly dissapointed by the misleading name of their amp. Can anyone explain the characteristics of the different rectifiers? What is mean by more "sag" in a tube rectifier?

[Wyatt]

 

wow you're right...I didn't know that. I looked it up on their website and am now slightly dissapointed by the misleading name of their amp. Can anyone explain the characteristics of the different rectifiers? What is mean by more "sag" in a tube rectifier?

 

 

Didn't I just do that?

[Unclemeat]

 

the single recto has a SS rectifier. The dual and triple have tube rectifiers, and more sag from teh 5u4 toobs, its for teh brootlz, but alot of tube amps have SS rectifiers, alot of it is preferance

 

 

Wouldn't a solid state rectifier be more for "the brootlz"? Tube rectifiers are a vintage thing... vintage sag and response. I would imagine for metal you would want the ss rectifier to get a quick tight response?

[Norcal_GIT_r]

Didn't I just do that?

..You sure did..Thanks for the explanation.

[inkblot]

I thought the dual/triple recto could be switched between tube and SS rectifier?

 

Sag/bloom is definitely a vintage thing, not many metal players if any would want tube rectification. Wouldn't make sense for the rectos to be tube rectified only.

[Ancient Mariner]

There's a lot more to amp tone than rectification (but you all knew that).

 

Wyatts explanation is correct, although a little too simple. Push-pull amps (those of 20+ watts typically) can display sag but single ended class A amps cannot because the output valve is always running at max current.

 

Power filtering makes a big difference. If bigger caps (say 100uF) are used to filter the supply then they provide a kind of reservoir of power, and will stiffen the output, reducing or eliminating sag. Many older amps with valve rectifiers also use smaller caps - typically 16uF or 20uF - and these smaller caps don't hold the same reservoirs of power, so the amp will naturally tend to sag more easily. Thus amps that must have fast attack will be designed with larger capacity filter caps. Make the caps big enough and SS or valve rectification will be irrelevant except from a cost point of view (SS is pennies).

 

It is also possible to make an SS rectifier sag like a valve rectifier by putting a substantial resistor between the rec and the first cap. This will limit current draw at times of high loading, allowing the amp to sag like a valve rec would. It should be noted that SS rectification will normally generate a higher rectified voltage than a valve rec, which will drop anywhere between 20V and 50V doing the same job.

 

Sag is a variable phenomenon according to the power drawn. Higher pitched notes draw much less power, and will have little noticeable sag. However deeper notes require much more power, and will sag much more - often noticeable when playing a run starting in the higher registers and finishing near the bottom of the neck on the lower E string. If you don't crank your amp hard then you're unlikely to get much sag at all, whatever note pitch your playing.

[elsupermanny14]

So if SS rectified amps are better for metal and heavier music then why does Mesa make amps like the Dual Rectifier and Tripple Rectifier? Those amps are primarily used by the havier crowd? Therefore I don't see why metal would prefer SS rectification but use Mesa amps who are tube rectified for the most part?

[SirJackdeFuzz]

Valve = sag

 

SS = no sag

 

 

 

. . . ermmm, in a nutshell.

[Kap'n]

 

single ended class A amps cannot because the output valve is always running at max current.

 

 

Thank you for being one of the only folks who understand that concept.

[songsforbears]

I had a '59 Bassman LTD Reissue that had a tube rectifier.

I now have a '65 Twin Reverb Reissue that doesn't.

 

They both sound great to me, but I never really crank either of them to hear any sag. At low volumes, the different rectifiers don't seem to do too much for me.

[Wyatt]

 

So if SS rectified amps are better for metal and heavier music then why does Mesa make amps like the Dual Rectifier and Tripple Rectifier? Those amps are primarily used by the havier crowd? Therefore I don't see why metal would prefer SS rectification but use Mesa amps who are tube rectified for the most part?

 

 

The Mesa concept for decades was high-gain preamp into a nice tight clean poweramp. The Mesa Boogie series poweramp is right out of a Twin Reverb. This is common and most high-gain preamps get partnered similarly (Dumble, Soldano SLO, Fuchs, 5105, 6505, Blue Voodoo, pretty much any 100-watt high-gain amp, etc.). THe idea is the clean poweramp will retain all of the harmonics and definition of the preamp. Try and run a really high-gain preamp in front of a overdriven poweramp and things often turn to mud, everything gets softened and mixed together.

 

Now, this concept is quite the opposite of a vintage cranked Fender or Marshall amp, where you are getting a fat, less-defined wall of crunch because you are cranking to whole amp to not just overdrive the preamp (which is relatively low gain) but power amp as well. The great non-master-volume tone.

 

Well, Mesa decided to design an amp to would have a very Mesa-esque preamp tone, but coupled with a poweramp that was designed for good power amp crunch. This is the Recto series. The idea was to make something that was uniquely Mesa sounding, but could compete with Marshall. What you get is lots of Mesa saturation along with a dark, crunch poweramp. All and all, they don't have the clarity of a Boogie, but have a lot more "thump!" It's been very successful for them,I would say the Recto surpassed the Boogie as their flagship amp and they have also gotten a lot of Marshall defectors (for example, Metallica)

[cratz2]

I've mostly been a tube amp guy for most of my playing, but right now my amp has a SS rectifier. I don't know about the brutal amp stuff and how the different tube arrangement changes things, but with a tube rectifier, as Wyatt said, the note sort of blooms. If you are doing fast leads or chugga rhythm, then bloom isn't important, but if you are into playing notes, bending up to other notes and letting them hang there while blooming and possibly getting into a smooth, musical feedback, tube rectifiers are the only way to go.

[SirJackdeFuzz]

I had a '59 Bassman LTD Reissue that had a tube rectifier. I now have a '65 Twin Reverb Reissue that doesn't. They both sound great to me, but I never really crank either of them to hear any sag. At low volumes, the different rectifiers don't seem to do too much for me.

 

 

The easiest (on the ears) to hear a rec valve "work" is on a much lower wattage amp, like a 22W Deluxe reverb, or better yet, a 15'ish Watt Fender 5E3 TWEED or any GOOD QUALITY clone there off.

 

These amps you can really crank and not go deaf in 15seconds flatt

[Brick]

 

I thought the dual/triple recto could be switched between tube and SS rectifier? Sag/bloom is definitely a vintage thing, not many metal players if any would want tube rectification. Wouldn't make sense for the rectos to be tube rectified only.

 

 

it does, i think it has a diode and a tube recto switch on the fron tpanel

[guitarcapo]

All I know is that I fingerpick my electric. No pick used ever. I found that this gives me lots of control... but unless I use my nails, the attack is soft and spongy. I usually replace the tube rectifier in my amps that have them with a solid state plug-in. Helps out a lot.

[willhaven]

The Dual/Triple rectos can be switch between silicon diode and tube rectifiers. I went from playing a 72 Marshall 100w Super Lead to a 94 2CH Triple Rectifier. I always use the silicon diode rectifier. In fact, I've removed the rectifier tubes from my amp entirely.

 

It still sounds thicker and fuller than the old Marshall. It's more due to the circuit design and output tubes (6L6 variants) than how it's rectified. You can still get a nice full tone with tight silicon diode rectification.