Howard Stern = Troll?

[Lee Knight]

Good points Chip. Still... I don't think a "real musician" as WaterBong is referring to you and I should give a rat's ass what AI does. It a different thing all together. Does Maria Carey or Celine Dion somehow rob us of our art? Does Michael Jackson, Justin Timberlake, or Fall Out Boy lessen what you do? Does an Advert Graphic Design degrade Rembrandt?

 

Should an uninvolved third party decide to spray paint over an ad house's work as a gag? I don't think Rembrandt cares...

[Lee Knight]

 

I see American Idol as just another arm of that beast, and yes, to me, in a way it is evil.

 

 

Fair enough.

[Lee Flier]

 

American Idol is an insult to almost anyone who's a real musician, and now it's time for it to go, and if Howard Stern can somehow use his influence to hasten that process, I say...more power to him.

 

 

But I think you're still missing Craig's point - it won't hasten the process. If anything, it'll up the ratings, and that's what both AI and Stern want for themselves and the sole point of him doing this little exercise.

 

Mind you, I've only watched AI and listened to Stern long enough to know I couldn't stand either of them and I wouldn't be tuning in again. But it makes no difference whether I agree with Stern's opinion of AI or not - I agree with Craig, the tone that is set by people like him is seriously {censored}ed up. Mean spiritedness and shock value are what gets attention, whether on TV, radio or the Internet, and we've become a society that rewards attention whores who accomplish nothing but tearing other people down, and mostly ignores real substance or caring.

 

I've been spending less and less time on the Internet, and pretty much zero time watching TV. I'm beyond over it. I'd rather talk to people who really listen, and listen to people who really have something to say.

[Billster]

What Stern is doing is a kind of Marketplace Darwinism. Not only must he succeed, others must also fail.

 

I call it the demolition derby model:

 

In a standard car race there is only one winner, but other competitors can have success on their own terms by finishing the race in a good position, and without destroying their car. Apple may sell more iPods, but there

[dparr]

I don't like American Idol either but it seems very childish to undermine and destroy it like Howard Stern is trying to do. If it makes a lot of people happy then what's wrong with that! Howard Stern is nothing but a media whore and is only using American Idol's success to boost his lack of same.

[Lee Knight]

 

Mean spiritedness and shock value are what gets attention, whether on TV, radio or the Internet, and we've become a society that rewards attention whores who accomplish nothing but tearing other people down, and mostly ignores real substance or caring... ...I'm beyond over it.

 

 

 

Amen.

[WaterBong]

 

But I think you're still missing Craig's point - it won't hasten the process. If anything, it'll up the ratings, and that's what both AI and Stern want for themselves and the sole point of him doing this little exercise. Mind you, I've only watched AI and listened to Stern long enough to know I couldn't stand either of them and I wouldn't be tuning in again. But it makes no difference whether I agree with Stern's opinion of AI or not - I agree with Craig, the tone that is set by people like him is seriously {censored}ed up. Mean spiritedness and shock value are what gets attention, whether on TV, radio or the Internet, and we've become a society that rewards attention whores who accomplish nothing but tearing other people down, and mostly ignores real substance or caring. I've been spending less and less time on the Internet, and pretty much zero time watching TV. I'm beyond over it. I'd rather talk to people who really listen, and listen to people who really have something to say.

 

 

Nah, Craig's wrong. If a no talent wins that competition it will knock it's credibility severely, and the whole thing will fall from grace pretty quickly, and be gone.

 

Question IS. Are people really that stupid? Are they just pawns for Howard Stern, or the producers of American Idol to play against each other? That's a flawed concept too. What Howard might be doing is just bringing out the smarter people to vote against such a bull{censored} show like American Idol.

[WaterBong]

 

I don't like American Idol either but it seems very childish to undermine and destroy it like Howard Stern is trying to do. If it makes a lot of people happy then what's wrong with that! Howard Stern is nothing but a media whore and is only using American Idol's success to boost his lack of same.

 

 

I just told you what was wrong with it. It's another arm of the established music industry who's only goal is to make HIT RECORDS. This happens at the expense of better, and more deserving music, by better and more deserving artists, who should be heard.

[Billster]

Yeah, the cognoscenti all listen to Howard Stern

[Ani]

I have never watched Howard Stern, nor do I really know that much about him, but from the vibe going on in this thread... it appears to me that he is tapping into the very same energy that has made American Idol a success. NEGATIVITY!!! Simon's harsh and rude critique of participants is what sent AI's ratings soaring over the top. Simon does not cut any slack to anyone, so where is it that anyone should show him any respect?

 

In a dog eat dog business, this Howard Stern guy is doing what it takes to survive; if it works for him and boosts HIS ratings, then hey.... he's learned from some of the best when it comes to tearing individuals down. He's been watching Simon.

 

I have no respect for, nor do I have any mercy for Simon and his whole schtick!

[spokenward]

If Stern wasn't such a narcissistic, self-interested attention whore, this would be valid culture jamming.

 

I don't like either of them. The "enemies list" is SOP for talk radio. It has been done forever. (Colbert does an amusing take on this.)

 

I have a very high tolerance for pop music. I have been close to it. I don't like anything about AI. I don't like "the bestest singer ever" format. I don't think that it has advanced the pop music form. I don't like the "instant" creation of "stars". I don't even like the cynical portrayal of the record business.

[WaterBong]

I'm not sure some people realize the extent to which AI is altering perception. I was just asked to participate in a "Guitar Battle" contest locally at a club where the owner is *trying* to do something to keep his head above water. He's also doing other "oblique strategies" to keep his business going, but they're all not putting the emphasis on the music. It probably seems natural to ask me to do something like that, but to me it's the antithesis of what I'm about. The only thing is, it's looking like people are starting to think more like that: this artist vs this artist. It's farked up. I haven't watched AI, and don't have time to watch tv anyhow, but the thing is my life is being impacted by it none the less , because I'm having to talk about it daily and discuss it in the context of "this is what you do when you are a musician" with students. What amazes me is that at this point from my detached POV, I don't see how Stern could make something that comes on tv once a week more popular than it is - it seems to me to be almost ubiquitous now, and that IS something I really don't like. I hear people talking about it more than NFL, golf and baseball (which, curiously, I previously thought would be a good thing). It is altering the average person's concept of what "music" is and is about; so no, I don't like it.

 

Like I said on another thread, in the final analysis music is not a contest. The only one you're competing against is yourself, and I guess that's what I really hate about American Idol, and all battle of bands, and talent shows, and lists of "who's the best guitarist" or whatever. I don't care about that. What I care about IS, does the music move me, does the music inspire me, does the music make me want to dance, does the music connect with something inside of me. I don't care who the winner is. I'm the winner when I hear great music, and I'm the winner when I play, and write, and record music to the very utmost of my own ability. That's why I'm a musician.

 

Ok, I'm gonna go engage in some self-flagellation now, and don't take that the wrong way.

[WaterBong]

Yeah, the cognoscenti all listen to Howard Stern

 

Probably moreso than watch American Idol. That's what I was saying. Are people like so stupid, they're either puppets of one or another. Nah, it's a lot more complicated than that.

[blue2blue]

I've always thought the guy was a boorish jerk... I can't IMAGINE why anyone would listen to his {censored} for more than 90 seconds...

 

Yet I've known people who seemed in other ways to be more or less functioning adults who thought he was somehow clever or entertaining... beats the heck out of me.

 

 

That said, I can't see why anyone would watch American Idol for more than a few minutes, either...

[Anderton]

 

I don't like American Idol either but it seems very childish to undermine and destroy it like Howard Stern is trying to do.

 

 

That's exactly my point. Any problems I have with AI are a separate discussion, the issue I have with how he's using what power he has in a mean-spirited way...and that mean-spiritedness is become acceptable thanks to people like him setting an "example."

 

I for one would prefer a less mean-spirited society.

[Anderton]

 

I haven't listended to Stern in years, and I rarely tolerate more than 5 minutes of AI at a time, but I think it's kind of funny. Craig, it sounds to me like Stern is playing a harmless practical joke on a show that takes itself way to seriously. Lighten up.

 

 

It would be a harmless practical joke if that's how he had packaged it. But he's packaging it as "I can take down American Idol." Like I said, it's all about him, not entertaining his fans.

 

I have plenty of problems with American Idol but as I've said, that's not what's bothering me here. As to Ani's comments, the difference between Simon and Stern is that Simon is doing what he's paid to do within the context of the show, whose parameters are known to the contestants. I have no problem if Stern wants to destroy guests coming on to his show, they know what they're getting into as well. It's that whole macho "I'm such a bad-ass guy I can take down a program" that bothers me.

[alphajerk]

 

If Stern wasn't such a narcissistic, self-interested attention whore, this would be valid culture jamming..

 

 

thats the truth there. i didnt realize it was stern doing this to begin with. but it does seem he has had now one great idea. culture jamming, i love that term.

 

the simple fact is i dont watch either one.... i wont START watching either one because of this, but i MIGHT find the number to TXT for the douchebag on the show to take it REALLY down to the LCD. didnt up the ratings of it, didnt watch it, wont start watching stern either, unless he has some chick with a vibe all spread out on the TV... hard to not pause for that. that {censored} is just funny.

 

if this wasnt howard stern, would you still consider this trolling if the sublic started this 'culture jamming' [like that phrase] campaign?

[alphajerk]

 

If Stern wasn't such a narcissistic, self-interested attention whore, this would be valid culture jamming..

 

 

thats the truth there. i didnt realize it was stern doing this to begin with. but it does seem he has had now one great idea. culture jamming, i love that term.

 

the simple fact is i dont watch either one.... i wont START watching either one because of this, but i MIGHT find the number to TXT for the douchebag on the show to take it REALLY down to the LCD. didnt up the ratings of it, didnt watch it, wont start watching stern either, unless he has some chick with a vibe all spread out on the TV... hard to not pause for that. that {censored} is just funny.

 

if this wasnt howard stern, would you still consider this trolling if the sublic started this 'culture jamming' [like that phrase] campaign?

[WaterBong]

That's exactly my point. Any problems I have with AI are a separate discussion, the issue I have with how he's using what power he has in a mean-spirited way...and that mean-spiritedness is become acceptable thanks to people like him setting an "example." I for one would prefer a less mean-spirited society.

 

For sure Craig. We should all try to be better, and more respectful towards each other. We really, really should, that's something we should all keep in mind, and strive for, but there's the mean spiritedness you see, which could be Howard, and the mean spiritedness you don't see, which is people screwing you over behind your back, like the music industry has been doing to musicians....from day one I much prefer the enemy I can see.

 

With Howard, what you see is what you get, and if you don't like him you can call him up and tell him to STFU NOOB! but he wouldn't be as successful as he is if there wasn't some large segment of society that resonates with his demeanor, and what he says.

 

This Stern/AI analogy is starting to fall apart in my mind, as it probably is in yours about now but I thank you guiys for giving me something to think about.

[Anderton]

 

if this wasnt howard stern, would you still consider this trolling if the public started this 'culture jamming' (like that phrase) campaign?

 

 

Well AI has opened itself up to the public, and if they want to vote for Mr. Hair because they think it's funny, that's up to them. But then they would be doing it as a fun practical joke, not as a way to show what a powerful "king of all media" they are.

[dparr]

I just told you what was wrong with it. It's another arm of the established music industry who's only goal is to make HIT RECORDS. This happens at the expense of better, and more deserving music, by better and more deserving artists, who should be heard.

 

I know what your saying and I agree, but just because you think something is wrong does it give you the god given right to try to kill it?

 

American Idol will die on it's own!

[WaterBong]

Well AI has opened itself up to the public, and if they want to vote for Mr. Hair because they think it's funny, that's up to them. But then they would be doing it as a fun practical joke, not as a way to show what a powerful "king of all media" they are.

 

Ok, here's what the people in The OJ would say to you about now.

 

"So you don't like Howard Stern, ya big baby, go play your guitar".

 

Not me, that's them saying that.

[Philter]

Why should we care about what one piece of crappy US media does to another? I hope they eat each other and each other's children as well. It's too much time wasted to even be aware that it's happening.

[Anderton]

Nah, Craig's wrong. If a no talent wins that competition it will knock it's credibility severely, and the whole thing will fall from grace pretty quickly, and be gone.

 

First of all, the dude Stern is pushing will not win. He sucks, and usually ends up in the bottom list of vote-getters. A bump from Stern's fans makes a difference now, but will become insignificant as the number of contestants dwindles...there are far more AI fans than Stern fans, just ask Sirius

 

If I didn't know better I'd think Stern was a shill for AI. He's drawing more attention to it, encouraging his own fans to vote which will cause more AI loyalists to vote, and increase the numbers even more. What's more, anyone who HASN'T watched may feel compelled to watch just to see how bad the "horrible singer dude" is.

 

In the end, Stern will be proven as NOT capable of bringing down the show, thus damaging his credibility and strengthening AI's. He's apparently not bright enough to think through the consequences of what he's doing, and realize it will have the opposite result of what he wants to accomplish.

 

And if anyone thinks AI has anything to do with music, it doesn't. It's a game show. Its relationship to music is the same relationship that "Deal or No Deal" has to financial investing!

[alphajerk]

craig, we wouldnt have to be so mean spirited if we werent subjected to such stupidity on every level from the white house on down to the crass commercialism they call "music" [and pretty much all consumable products]. i see no other alternative than to be mean spirited about it. like i said, and i think a lot of other people didnt think either was it was stern behind this.