Members rasputin1963 Posted April 23, 2007 Members Share Posted April 23, 2007 Let me say right off that by subliminals, I definitely am not referring to Paul's dog whistle, self-help tapes or Led Zeppelin's backwards injunctions to worship satan. No, no. I'm talking about the way a good engineer will have some voices, notes or chords embedded into a mix so softly and deftly that they are really "felt" more than heard. I've been listening to some great Brill Building hits from the early 60's... the vocal pads, I now hear, are more dense in harmony than I had previously supposed... and this because the arrangers/producers have some harmonies being "ghosted" on top of the more audible harmonies... And to think that I long thought these records were fairly simplistic in arrangement.....'tain't so! Also, if you are a fan, as I am, of the Linda Ronstadt recordings with the Nelson Riddle Orchestra.... Wow! You'll hear parts "ghosted" so softly, they're almost not there at all... Riddle, Asher and Massenburg have placed some celesta, string, trombone, harp, flute, french horn integrated so softly into the mix, they're pretty much perceived subliminally.... unless you have sort of "woken up" to them, and consciously seek them out... :love: Do you ever experiment with ghosted, subliminal voices in your mixes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members greendoor Posted April 23, 2007 Members Share Posted April 23, 2007 Daniel Lanois does this a lot ... 'scrape guitar' is one of his tricks, really softly strummed stuff just for atmosphere - sometimes on unusual stringed instruments. Interestingly, the early Beatles ended up with a lot of subliminal stuff quite by accident. They built up tracks on their two track machines while tracking to previously recorded backing tracks played through the large 'white elephant' speakers. This was before they discovered the use of headphones in the studio for tracking. So they got lots of bleed, and sometimes bleed from tracks and takes that never made it into the final mix (except as ghostly leakage). It all makes it more interesting ... definately worth playing with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted April 23, 2007 Moderators Share Posted April 23, 2007 Whisper tracks are cool. Like Morrison's voice on Riders on the Storm. The whole way through, mixed up fairly loud once you key into it, but still subliminal because I never noticed it for years and years. I've used that idea. Also... putting a pad into a reverb with no direct signal being used in the mix. That can work the "scrape guitar" type thing. Thne there's using a lead vocal double for the reverb or delay send. The double only sees the light of day in the effects return. I think of ghost notes from a bass players or drummers perspective. A swung 8th barely fretted right before the 1 in a walking bass line. di-DOOM-DOOM-DOOM-DOOM di-DOOM-DOOM-DOOM-DOOM di-DOOM-DOOM-di-di-di-DOOMDOOM-DOOM-DOOM-DOOM That's a ghost note to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members alphajerk Posted April 23, 2007 Members Share Posted April 23, 2007 yeah, i do this on almost every recording i have ever made to some extent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members shniggens Posted April 23, 2007 Members Share Posted April 23, 2007 Roger Waters is the king of that stuff. (I clicked on this thread thinking you were talking about drumming technique) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted April 23, 2007 Members Share Posted April 23, 2007 A fair amount, especially with voices (whispered, sung, etc.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members alphajerk Posted April 23, 2007 Members Share Posted April 23, 2007 actually in the new EQ, there is an article about guitars, especially very overdriven ones that i do using the direct sound [maybe with a SLIGHT crunch to it] blended with the super saturated to give the sound more punch. everytime i havent done that [usually due to lack on inputs during basic tracking], i have kicked myself later and made the guitarists double the track with a cleaner track, but i dont find that works as well as getting the DI from the getgo. another thing i will do are mic'ing a snare with the bass amp running for sympathetic buzzing stuck WAY BACK, especially on slower songs. i will also run an acoustic into an amp to mix with the mic'd acoustic if it has a pickup [or reamp it later] singers have looked at me strangely asking them to do the "whisper track" until they do it [usually half assed at first], then hear it and their eyes pop wide open, then i get a real take after they get all excited about it. nothing like a cowbell buried in a track to bring things up a notch subliminally... tambourines as well, and what i call "throbbing pianos" basically playing the root+fifth percussively. all of these i set so you cant discern it, but if i take it out, you notice something is missing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted April 23, 2007 Moderators Share Posted April 23, 2007 and what i call "throbbing pianos" basically playing the root+fifth percussively. Yeah. You know the Motown drum beat that is all 4's on the snare and an 8th note on the kick in between the 3 and 4 and? I like doing the "throbbing pianos" root and fifth thing with that kind of feel on some songs. Straight 4's on the right hand keys and the left hand playing the in between kick notes, when the drum beat isn't doing that of course. Blend that into a chorus that's suppposed to kick... and it will. Use a cool Upright sound and mix back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members alphajerk Posted April 23, 2007 Members Share Posted April 23, 2007 yeah, uprights rule for that. i actually stole the idea from the Stooges 'i wanna be your dog' but mix it way further back than they do on it. those things are great to lift up chorus sections, solo sections as well... and big outro's. another thing i did on the last album i did was during this big arena style drum breakdown, i added in a huge crowd noise from a sample cd i have but buried it so it wasnt noticible [on headphones it is more than on speakers], but created just the right white noise during that section and added a lot of excitement to the part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted April 23, 2007 Moderators Share Posted April 23, 2007 , but created just the right white noise during that section and added a lot of excitement to the part. I will be stealing that idea within the next 2 weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members alphajerk Posted April 23, 2007 Members Share Posted April 23, 2007 i put all kinds of ambient crowd noises. i did a carnivale crowd noise during this intro to another song. that was less buried, but im usually thinking cinematic when i work on songs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members the stranger Posted April 26, 2007 Members Share Posted April 26, 2007 All the time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members the stranger Posted April 26, 2007 Members Share Posted April 26, 2007 (I clicked on this thread thinking you were talking about drumming technique) Me, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members chipmcdonald Posted April 28, 2007 Members Share Posted April 28, 2007 Actually, I think the coolest use of such a thing is on Danzig's "Mother". He's whispering along with the vocal - and it's strange how loud abd dry it is, but it still wants to disappear into the mix if you don't focus on it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lee Flier Posted April 28, 2007 Members Share Posted April 28, 2007 Yeah I do stuff like that all the time, it's great. I love the crowd noise thing... one time I was recording a band in this old building on Hollywood Blvd. and a parade went by... we left the noise in during the take and then opened the windows and recorded some more of it, which we then mixed in with the other tracks and it was awesome... we just recorded the parade noise on the entire reel of tape so everything we recorded on the reel had it in there if we wanted it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members offramp Posted April 29, 2007 Members Share Posted April 29, 2007 Let me say right off that by subliminals, I definitely am not referring to Paul's dog whistle, self-help tapes or Led Zeppelin's backwards injunctions to worship satan. Paul made self-help tapes?Damn... those'd be worth something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TIP Posted April 29, 2007 Members Share Posted April 29, 2007 I like to mix in at least a couple of Nashville high strung acoustic parts with capos at various positons. Sometimes little ghost melodies pop up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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